Fantasy Demolished - U.S. Climate Goals Threatened by "Green" Power demands

[Glitch]

Likely because the green frenzy will NOT materially reduce living standards. While some of the haves will have to give a little (maybe keep your thermostat at 78 degrees), the have nots (by far the majority) will see improvements in the quality of their lives.

Muscle up buttercup, your first world problem is showing.

It already has. The price of poultry, beef, and pork have more than tripled since ethanol production began in the 1990s. Everyone's standard of living as declined significantly in the last 30 years, and that is just in the US. The decline has been worse elsewhere in the world. That, after all, has always been the goal of the mentally-diseased left, to reduce the standard of living and return humanity back to the stone-age. If you can't stop people from breeding, then you can at least deprive them of resources, right? Such is the mentality of leftist filth.

 

[Glitch]

Why do we need a government edict if that is the case? Did we need a government edict or control to force us off whale oil for lighting? Where to replace horses with automobiles? Would you prefer horse manure on the streets to greenhouse gases?

You need to understand the principles of Malthusianism that the left are trying to achieve. The Malthusian left's ultimate objective is mass genocide. They believe that the planet can only sustain 3 billion people maximum, so their goal has always been to seek ways to limit the human population to that number. The left made a good start last century, wiping out more than 150 million people in the two world wars that they started, but that won't help them to wipe out 60% of humanity today. So they have to be creative and somehow convince everyone that we don't need the resources we are consuming, that we are somehow better off diseased, starving, and living in caves (without any fire for warmth of course).

This is what makes leftists mentally-diseased - their innate self-loathing of their own species.

 

[highroller]

It already has. The price of poultry, beef, and pork have more than tripled since ethanol production began in the 1990s. Everyone's standard of living as declined significantly in the last 30 years, and that is just in the US. The decline has been worse elsewhere in the world. That, after all, has always been the goal of the mentally-diseased left, to reduce the standard of living and return humanity back to the stone-age. If you can't stop people from breeding, then you can at least deprive them of resources, right? Such is the mentality of leftist filth.

Maybe people just aren’t working or saving hard enough. My standard of living has greatly improved.

But no, we just need to pollute more. That will solve this problem.

 

[highroller]

You need to understand the principles of Malthusianism that the left are trying to achieve. The Malthusian left's ultimate objective is mass genocide. They believe that the planet can only sustain 3 billion people maximum, so their goal has always been to seek ways to limit the human population to that number. The left made a good start last century, wiping out more than 150 million people in the two world wars that they started, but that won't help them to wipe out 60% of humanity today. So they have to be creative and somehow convince everyone that we don't need the resources we are consuming, that we are somehow better off diseased, starving, and living in caves (without any fire for warmth of course).

This is what makes leftists mentally-diseased - their innate self-loathing of their own species.

Spending time with loved ones is cheap and wonderful. I feel sorry for people that need to consume to feel valued.

 

[Glitch]

Spending time with loved ones is cheap and wonderful. I feel sorry for people that need to consume to feel valued.

How about consuming to stay alive? Does that get your stamp of approval? Or are you also one of those sick and twisted Mualthusians that prefers humanity starves?

 

[highroller]

How about consuming to stay alive? Does that get your stamp of approval? Or are you also one of those sick and twisted Mualthusians that prefers humanity starves?

It doesn’t cost that much to live. Most people’s problems come from buying houses, cars and toys they can’t afford but think they need.

 

[mrjurrs]

It already has. The price of poultry, beef, and pork have more than tripled since ethanol production began in the 1990s. Everyone's standard of living as declined significantly in the last 30 years, and that is just in the US. The decline has been worse elsewhere in the world. That, after all, has always been the goal of the mentally-diseased left, to reduce the standard of living and return humanity back to the stone-age. If you can't stop people from breeding, then you can at least deprive them of resources, right? Such is the mentality of leftist filth.

Sometimes you just make it so easy...

Global Protein Developments: What are the Implications for the Meat Industry?

ANALYSIS - What meat will be on the world's plate in the coming decades? Who will eat what and why? Stuart Lumb went to listen to Rabobank analyst Albert Vernooij.

www.thebeefsite.com

 

[Glitch]

Sometimes you just make it so easy...
View attachment 67500206

Global Protein Developments: What are the Implications for the Meat Industry?

ANALYSIS - What meat will be on the world's plate in the coming decades? Who will eat what and why? Stuart Lumb went to listen to Rabobank analyst Albert Vernooij.

www.thebeefsite.com

What does demand have to do with price? Or are you incapable of comprehending the difference between the two?

 

[mrjurrs]

What does demand have to do with price? Or are you incapable of comprehending the difference between the two?

Seriously? What does demand have to do with prices?
What would the price of meat protein be if the world was vegetarian?

 

[ModernDiogenes]

And greed is what will cause the oil companies to follow the greater profit.

Probably. Vastly behind the curve of others, where we’ve lost the economic lead, the jobs that would benefit the citizens of this nation, etc. All because our US based corporations wanted to suck the last cent out of the old tech before moving in. Failing to innovate they will follow. That’s my point.

That’s NOT how one “Makes America Great Again”, is it.

 

[longview]

Not at all

Probably. Vastly behind the curve of others, where we’ve lost the economic lead, the jobs that would benefit the citizens of this nation, etc. All because our US based corporations wanted to suck the last cent out of the old tech before moving in. Failing to innovate they will follow. That’s my point.

That’s NOT how one “Makes America Great Again”, is it.

Not at all, their research is complete.
Exxon has already started making low carbon jet fuel at a unit level, the completely carbon neutral version just changes the source of the hydrogen, the carbon is already being harvested from atmospheric CO2.

 

[ModernDiogenes]

Not at all

Not at all, their research is complete.
Exxon has already started making low carbon jet fuel at a unit level, the completely carbon neutral version just changes the source of the hydrogen, the carbon is already being harvested from atmospheric CO2.

No one is claiming nothing gets done.

The totality of the circumstances is what’s being spoken to. The record. The total sum of that which us quantitative and measurable.

In that totality US based corporations, which use to lead the way in involving, don't any longer as a rule. They delay because it’s seen as profitable. It might very well be, short term. It isn’t in the long run, as we fall behind curves and the leads in technologies we invented costs us market share and jobs. It’s pennywise and pound foolish thinking.

 

[longview]

No one is claiming nothing gets done.

The totality of the circumstances is what’s being spoken to. The record. The total sum of that which us quantitative and measurable.

In that totality US based corporations, which use to lead the way in involving, don't any longer as a rule. They delay because it’s seen as profitable. It might very well be, short term. It isn’t in the long run, as we fall behind curves and the leads in technologies we invented costs us market share and jobs. It’s pennywise and pound foolish thinking.

I’m not sure that’s what going on here.
The oil companies have the refining and distribution infrastructure already in place, any new players would be way behind.
Focused applications like jet fuel with finite distribution points will be more likely than cars.

 

[Buzz]

Not at all, their research is complete.
Exxon has already started making low carbon jet fuel at a unit level, the completely carbon neutral version just changes the source of the hydrogen, the carbon is already being harvested from atmospheric CO2.

Longview is just wrong about this jet fuel that Exxon is producing. The carbon is not being harvested from the atmosphere. It is coming from biofuel.

Longview is getting his facts wrong yet again.

 

[ModernDiogenes]

I’m not sure that’s what going on here.
The oil companies have the refining and distribution infrastructure already in place, any new players would be way behind.
Focused applications like jet fuel with finite distribution points will be more likely than cars.

Well, there is a difference that takes place with much of going “green” that isn’t involved with other tech changes.

Much of which is overlays and upgrades to existing tech. You do firmware swaps, maybe install hardware upgrades. Changing from fossil fuels to renewable power sources is a paradigm shift. It requires a whole new infrastructure. Charging stations instead of gas. Smart grids.

 

[longview]

Well, there is a difference that takes place with much of going “green” that isn’t involved with other tech changes.

Much of which is overlays and upgrades to existing tech. You do firmware swaps, maybe install hardware upgrades. Changing from fossil fuels to renewable power sources is a paradigm shift. It requires a whole new infrastructure. Charging stations instead of gas. Smart grids.

Not at all, it depends on which aspect of energy you change. For example Solar power designed to carry summer loads in warmer climates, produce massive surpluses in the Fall and Spring.
Most large refineries already have large grid ties for cogeneration, so the ties can be used to carry the electricity from the grid needed to store energy as hydrocarbon fuels for transport and other energy demands. Fuels made from harvested CO2, are carbon neutral when burned.
The fuel is also sustainable.
Leveraging all the existing demand and the existing global distribution infrastructure, saves the expense and time to build out the new infrastructure.

 

[ModernDiogenes]

Not at all, it depends on which aspect of energy you change. For example Solar power designed to carry summer loads in warmer climates, produce massive surpluses in the Fall and Spring.

That very reason requires the smart grids that we don’t have yet. Much of our system is over 50 years old. Some of it dates back to civic construction from New Deal money back in the 1930’s.

Most large refineries already have large grid ties for cogeneration, so the ties can be used to carry the electricity from the grid needed to store energy as hydrocarbon fuels for transport and other energy demands. Fuels made from harvested CO2, are carbon neutral when burned.
The fuel is also sustainable.
Leveraging all the existing demand and the existing global distribution infrastructure, saves the expense and time to build out the new infrastructure.

The backbones aren’t the parts that are truly outdated. It’s the spines from the backbones that bring the product to end users, that will also be required to return that flow as energy will need to move in two directions. They are also horribly hackable. The upgrade is also required to harden it. Our natural gas infrastructure is just as bad, or worse, in that regard.

 

[longview]

That very reason requires the smart grids that we don’t have yet. Much of our system is over 50 years old. Some of it dates back to civic construction from New Deal money back in the 1930’s.





The backbones aren’t the parts that are truly outdated. It’s the spines from the backbones that bring the product to end users, that will also be required to return that flow as energy will need to move in two directions. They are also horribly hackable. The upgrade is also required to harden it. Our natural gas infrastructure is just as bad, or worse, in that regard.

We need to fix the weaknesses but the basic structure is already there to move the surplus to the refineries for energy storage.
Near term this will likely be more jet fuel, but gasoline and natural gas will eventually follow.
Un natural gas has the greatest potential for actual energy storage, but it will be the last to be economically viable.

 

[Lord of Planar]

That very reason requires the smart grids that we don’t have yet. Much of our system is over 50 years old. Some of it dates back to civic construction from New Deal money back in the 1930’s.

What do you mean by smart grid? I have heard the term, and I get the impression that it allows control of user electrical usage. I want no part of that.

The backbones aren’t the parts that are truly outdated. It’s the spines from the backbones that bring the product to end users, that will also be required to return that flow as energy will need to move in two directions. They are also horribly hackable. The upgrade is also required to harden it. Our natural gas infrastructure is just as bad, or worse, in that regard.

Both will. We have places that generate more wind or solar than can be used in a local region, the ability to move the electricity to where it is needed becomes more essential. Wanting to move our traditional energy usage from fuels to electricity creates a larger demand on the entire grin infrastructure. Your “spurs” only have a limited range of moving alternating current efficiently. We need to entirely rebuild the backbones to be HVDC (high voltage direct current) since it does not suffer the same inductive losses that AC does.

We should be using natural gas until we have a viable means of generating large amounts of power with less CO2. Natural Gas plants can be built where the power is needed.

 

[ModernDiogenes]

What do you mean by smart grid? I have heard the term, and I get the impression that it allows control of user electrical usage. I want no part of that.

A smart grid dies things like knowing what regions are making more than needed and moving it to other regions where that power is needed. It flows in two directions to for this. Accepting power from all sources, like personal solar panels where onsite battery capacity is on overflow.

It will also auto shutdown spreading electrical malfunctions at sufficient speed so a tripped or blown junction won’t knock out entire grids/regions There are other advantages.

 

[Lord of Planar]

A smart grid dies things like knowing what regions are making more than needed and moving it to other regions where that power is needed. It flows in two directions to for this. Accepting power from all sources, like personal solar panels where onsite battery capacity is on overflow.

This being incorporated along with green energy is probably why my power has a momentary pause, long enough to see my lights blink. It's really annoying when it resets my modem. This happens far more frequently where I live than in the past. I have never seen as many transitions of power a decade ago. Ten years ago, it was effectively nonexistent.

It will also auto shutdown spreading electrical malfunctions at sufficient speed so a tripped or blown junction won’t knock out entire grids/regions There are other advantages.

Modem automation can do some amazing things.

Now if our supply of power to the regional grids were from HVDC, we wouldn't have as many problems as you can switch one power source in before switching the other out.