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The Gospel According to Kanye

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nota bene

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An excerpt from Kevin Williamson's article on Kanye West's new-found faith:

But the song in question, “Closed on Sunday,” is of some interest. It is a meditation on the Sabbath. (Chick-fil-A, a Christian-owned business, is famously closed on Sundays.) In the song, West advises (hectors, really) the listener to set aside social media and other technological distractions for the day and to turn instead to family and prayer. That is not the usual feel-good, milk-and-water, love-songs-to-Jesus style of pop-music Christianity. The Sabbath is about giving things up as well as enjoying them. Sohrab Ahmari, quondam antagonist of “David Frenchism,” has spoken wistfully about the possibility of reviving the so-called blue laws, which forbade certain kinds of commercial activity on Sundays. Taking the Sabbath seriously would represent a genuinely radical development for American Christianity, an assault on sensitive progressive cultural norms that would no doubt prove as controversial as homeschooling and abstinence advocacy. The rest of the album is similarly direct and uncompromising in its conception of Christian life and witness.

...Tyson is not a goo-goo New Age celebrity evangelist but is instead part of the intellectually rigorous conservative Reformed tradition, which puts a heavy emphasis on scripture and its inerrancy. Placerita Bible Church, according to its doctrinal statement, “is deeply committed to the absolute authority of the Bible. We are convinced that the Bible is the only trustworthy standard of what we should believe and how we should live. Our ultimate priority is to glorify God by faithfully proclaiming the truth of His Word so that people can clearly understand it and practically apply it to their lives.” That is the kind of Christianity in which West is being instructed. The Gospel According to Kanye | National Review

I would like to respectfully discuss this article and various points made. I don't know whether Kanye's conversion is real or simply a momentary enthusiasm but wonder when someone presents as Christian whether we shouldn't take this at face-value.
 
nota bene said:
An excerpt from Kevin Williamson's article on Kanye West's new-found faith:

But the song in question, “Closed on Sunday,” is of some interest. It is a meditation on the Sabbath. (Chick-fil-A, a Christian-owned business, is famously closed on Sundays.) In the song, West advises (hectors, really) the listener to set aside social media and other technological distractions for the day and to turn instead to family and prayer. That is not the usual feel-good, milk-and-water, love-songs-to-Jesus style of pop-music Christianity. The Sabbath is about giving things up as well as enjoying them. Sohrab Ahmari, quondam antagonist of “David Frenchism,” has spoken wistfully about the possibility of reviving the so-called blue laws, which forbade certain kinds of commercial activity on Sundays. Taking the Sabbath seriously would represent a genuinely radical development for American Christianity, an assault on sensitive progressive cultural norms that would no doubt prove as controversial as homeschooling and abstinence advocacy. The rest of the album is similarly direct and uncompromising in its conception of Christian life and witness.

...Tyson is not a goo-goo New Age celebrity evangelist but is instead part of the intellectually rigorous conservative Reformed tradition, which puts a heavy emphasis on scripture and its inerrancy. Placerita Bible Church, according to its doctrinal statement, “is deeply committed to the absolute authority of the Bible. We are convinced that the Bible is the only trustworthy standard of what we should believe and how we should live. Our ultimate priority is to glorify God by faithfully proclaiming the truth of His Word so that people can clearly understand it and practically apply it to their lives.” That is the kind of Christianity in which West is being instructed. The Gospel According to Kanye | National Review

I would like to respectfully discuss this article and various points made. I don't know whether Kanye's conversion is real or simply a momentary enthusiasm but wonder when someone presents as Christian whether we shouldn't take this at face-value.
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From his first album, Kanye has always shown some kind of faith. One of my favorites songs from his first album "Jesus Walks" seems to explore, imo, how to keep your faith while occasionally slipping, avoiding temptation, and staying strong some aspects of your life look down on the faithful.

But is this new persona of his actually to be taken seriously? The article makes some good points to argue either way. In the end if Kanye is living his faith the best he can and it helps himself and his family to be a better people then so be it but only time will tell if he is serious or not. Having Kim Kardashian for a wife doesn't seem to help his Christian case.
 
americanwoman said:
From his first album, Kanye has always shown some kind of faith. One of my favorites songs from his first album "Jesus Walks" seems to explore, imo, how to keep your faith while occasionally slipping, avoiding temptation, and staying strong some aspects of your life look down on the faithful.

But is this new persona of his actually to be taken seriously? The article makes some good points to argue either way. In the end if Kanye is living his faith the best he can and it helps himself and his family to be a better people then so be it but only time will tell if he is serious or not. Having Kim Kardashian for a wife doesn't seem to help his Christian case.
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I've read that he's insisting that she dress more modestly and not allowing North to wear makeup. We'll see how all that goes. :roll:

But I'm hoping that Kanye is sincere and that this isn't just an enthusiasm. I've read several cynical comments about how when he doesn't make the same kind of money, he'll return to his old rapping, but I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt.
 
nota bene said:
Kanye will be at Joel Osteen's church on Sunday: Kanye West to take stage at Joel Osteen's Lakewood Church Sunday – Disrn
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Bummer.

My kid played the album for me.
Parts are alright.

I said that if West is sincere, then I wish him all the best.
I pointed out that he makes his living via self-promotion. That gives me pause and cause to doubt West's sincerity.
I told my kid, "...as long as West doesn't start acting like the scammy, scummy TV preachers..."

Working with Joel Olsteen is not a good sign imho.

It looks like West is just running another hustle.

Bummer.
 
nota bene said:
An excerpt from Kevin Williamson's article on Kanye West's new-found faith:

But the song in question, “Closed on Sunday,” is of some interest. It is a meditation on the Sabbath. (Chick-fil-A, a Christian-owned business, is famously closed on Sundays.) In the song, West advises (hectors, really) the listener to set aside social media and other technological distractions for the day and to turn instead to family and prayer. That is not the usual feel-good, milk-and-water, love-songs-to-Jesus style of pop-music Christianity. The Sabbath is about giving things up as well as enjoying them. Sohrab Ahmari, quondam antagonist of “David Frenchism,” has spoken wistfully about the possibility of reviving the so-called blue laws, which forbade certain kinds of commercial activity on Sundays. Taking the Sabbath seriously would represent a genuinely radical development for American Christianity, an assault on sensitive progressive cultural norms that would no doubt prove as controversial as homeschooling and abstinence advocacy. The rest of the album is similarly direct and uncompromising in its conception of Christian life and witness.

...Tyson is not a goo-goo New Age celebrity evangelist but is instead part of the intellectually rigorous conservative Reformed tradition, which puts a heavy emphasis on scripture and its inerrancy. Placerita Bible Church, according to its doctrinal statement, “is deeply committed to the absolute authority of the Bible. We are convinced that the Bible is the only trustworthy standard of what we should believe and how we should live. Our ultimate priority is to glorify God by faithfully proclaiming the truth of His Word so that people can clearly understand it and practically apply it to their lives.” That is the kind of Christianity in which West is being instructed. The Gospel According to Kanye | National Review

I would like to respectfully discuss this article and various points made. I don't know whether Kanye's conversion is real or simply a momentary enthusiasm but wonder when someone presents as Christian whether we shouldn't take this at face-value.
Click to expand...

I dunno, Bene, I always raise an eyebrow at anyone who gets rich on Christ's message. The fact that he's connected with Osteen makes it ever more ... yucky? hehe...

I haven't checked out the lyrics, so I can't speak to the theology...but his lifestyle, like Osteen's, doesn't really look like the real deal...that whole camel through the eye of a needle thing. He can hector his audience about getting off of social media on Sunday's, but has he earned that right, being a centimillionaire (or billionaire, depending on if you believe him or Forbes) and living a lavish lifestyle, while people are dying in poverty in his own country, and around the world?

Kanye West just called himself a billionaire, disputing Forbes - Business Insider

I dunno...how do we determine the piety and spiritual wisdom of the super rich? They're like a different species, a different branch of evolution. With that in mind, I'll likely take my spiritual guidance from my small town pastor. She drives a old Chevy, not a Bentley... I suspect she has greater insight into the lives we are called to live.
 
Simon W. Moon said:
Bummer.

My kid played the album for me.
Parts are alright.

I said that if West is sincere, then I wish him all the best.
I pointed out that he makes his living via self-promotion. That gives me pause and cause to doubt West's sincerity.
I told my kid, "...as long as West doesn't start acting like the scammy, scummy TV preachers..."

Working with Joel Olsteen is not a good sign imho.

It looks like West is just running another hustle.

Bummer.
Click to expand...

I really, really, really hope you're wrong. But I'm always wary of "enthusiasms."
 
OlNate said:
I dunno, Bene, I always raise an eyebrow at anyone who gets rich on Christ's message. The fact that he's connected with Osteen makes it ever more ... yucky? hehe...

I haven't checked out the lyrics, so I can't speak to the theology...but his lifestyle, like Osteen's, doesn't really look like the real deal...that whole camel through the eye of a needle thing. He can hector his audience about getting off of social media on Sunday's, but has he earned that right, being a centimillionaire (or billionaire, depending on if you believe him or Forbes) and living a lavish lifestyle, while people are dying in poverty in his own country, and around the world?

Kanye West just called himself a billionaire, disputing Forbes - Business Insider

I dunno...how do we determine the piety and spiritual wisdom of the super rich? They're like a different species, a different branch of evolution. With that in mind, I'll likely take my spiritual guidance from my small town pastor. She drives a old Chevy, not a Bentley... I suspect she has greater insight into the lives we are called to live.
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She just might. But it's also true that an "influencer" reaches more people. Of course, if it's a bad message....
 
nota bene said:
She just might. But it's also true that an "influencer" reaches more people. Of course, if it's a bad message....
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And that's the issue. The message he's sending isn't simply his lyrics, it's how he lives his life. I had a paragraph written that spoke to that, then deleted it, with the same concern in mind.

But then, Philippians 1:15-18 comes to mind.

I dunno...I guess I just think that we don't need another rich Christian in the world, telling everyone what to do, while living in a state of perpetual hypocrisy. We're taking it on the chin badly enough as it is, for that very reason. People look at Osteen, and all of a sudden it's "Christians are hypocrites" and "tax the Church"... But that's not what the Church is.
 
OlNate said:
And that's the issue. The message he's sending isn't simply his lyrics, it's how he lives his life. I had a paragraph written that spoke to that, then deleted it, with the same concern in mind.

But then, Philippians 1:15-18 comes to mind.

I dunno...I guess I just think that we don't need another rich Christian in the world, telling everyone what to do, while living in a state of perpetual hypocrisy. We're taking it on the chin badly enough as it is, for that very reason. People look at Osteen, and all of a sudden it's "Christians are hypocrites" and "tax the Church"... But that's not what the Church is.
Click to expand...

I'll stop you here because making this point is so futile for those of ill will, sigh.

But thank you for this:

15 It is true that some preach Christ out of envy and rivalry, but others out of goodwill. 16 The latter do so out of love, knowing that I am put here for the defense of the gospel. 17 The former preach Christ out of selfish ambition, not sincerely, supposing that they can stir up trouble for me while I am in chains. 18 But what does it matter? The important thing is that in every way, whether from false motives or true, Christ is preached. And because of this I rejoice.
 
nota bene said:
I'll stop you here because making this point is so futile for those of ill will, sigh.

But thank you for this:

15 It is true that some preach Christ out of envy and rivalry, but others out of goodwill. 16 The latter do so out of love, knowing that I am put here for the defense of the gospel. 17 The former preach Christ out of selfish ambition, not sincerely, supposing that they can stir up trouble for me while I am in chains. 18 But what does it matter? The important thing is that in every way, whether from false motives or true, Christ is preached. And because of this I rejoice.
Click to expand...

Follow up:

Kanye West Recalls 'Mental Breakdown' During Joel Osteen Service | PEOPLE.com

sigh...thoughts?
 
nota bene said:
I watched just a minute of the live stream, and it was the exact right minute, the one during which Kanye referred to himself as the greatest artist God ever created. Yes. And Osteen just stood beside him with a stupid grin on his face.
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Yeah..... This is why I simply can't take my religious inspiration from rich folks. I read the Bible, it warns about these types...a lot. :)
 
OlNate said:
Yeah..... This is why I simply can't take my religious inspiration from rich folks. I read the Bible, it warns about these types...a lot. :)
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I don't know whether this is an "enthusiasm" for Kanye or what, but nothing he does or says is going to influence me. I'm pretty old-school. ;)
 
nota bene said:
I don't know whether this is an "enthusiasm" for Kanye or what, but nothing he does or says is going to influence me. I'm pretty old-school. ;)
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Not sure if I understood you perfectly, but if you're talking about what all this is for Kanye, I'd say it was an attempt to appeal to a Christian market. I mean, it wouldn't be the first time...politicians have done it forever. ;)
 
OlNate said:
Not sure if I understood you perfectly, but if you're talking about what all this is for Kanye, I'd say it was an attempt to appeal to a Christian market. I mean, it wouldn't be the first time...politicians have done it forever. ;)
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I can't judge his intentions; only his Father knows his heart. I can certainly understand why people are cynical and skeptical, though, and think it's fair to say that he needs a little stronger focus on, uh, humility.
 
americanwoman said:
I saw the highlights of that this morning on GMA. I don't watch or keep up much with televangelists like Osteen but I was kind of shocked at the size and magnitude of the service. It's like a rock concert atmosphere. And of course, KK was front and center looking all conservative.
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They don't call it a "mega-church" for nothing. I just really can't imagine attending church services in a stadium, but as I say, I'm pretty old-school.

 
For some reason I can't quite pin down, this all very much reminds me of the HBO series, The Fabulous Gemstones. Worth viewing for those who subscribe to HBO. John Goodman as a patriarch of an evangelist megachurch family, and of course a family of mercenary misfits.

I clog dance for god!
 
nota bene said:
They don't call it a "mega-church" for nothing. I just really can't imagine attending church services in a stadium, but as I say, I'm pretty old-school.

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I'm old school that way too, I like intimate services and maybe because of my Catholic upbringing but I love an old church with a lot of stained glass.
 
nota bene said:
I can't judge his intentions; only his Father knows his heart. I can certainly understand why people are cynical and skeptical, though, and think it's fair to say that he needs a little stronger focus on, uh, humility.
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Yep...just speaking on how it looks. There are a lot of folks syphoning God's glory, to add to their own. Is he one of them? Who knows...but it looks like it. :shrug:
 
OlNate said:
Yep...just speaking on how it looks. There are a lot of folks syphoning God's glory, to add to their own. Is he one of them? Who knows...but it looks like it. :shrug:
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Trite but true: Time will tell. Put not your trust in princes....
 
OlNate said:
Yep...just speaking on how it looks. There are a lot of folks syphoning God's glory, to add to their own. Is he one of them? Who knows...but it looks like it. :shrug:
Click to expand...

 
nota bene said:
An excerpt from Kevin Williamson's article on Kanye West's new-found faith:

But the song in question, “Closed on Sunday,” is of some interest. It is a meditation on the Sabbath. (Chick-fil-A, a Christian-owned business, is famously closed on Sundays.) In the song, West advises (hectors, really) the listener to set aside social media and other technological distractions for the day and to turn instead to family and prayer. That is not the usual feel-good, milk-and-water, love-songs-to-Jesus style of pop-music Christianity. The Sabbath is about giving things up as well as enjoying them. Sohrab Ahmari, quondam antagonist of “David Frenchism,” has spoken wistfully about the possibility of reviving the so-called blue laws, which forbade certain kinds of commercial activity on Sundays. Taking the Sabbath seriously would represent a genuinely radical development for American Christianity, an assault on sensitive progressive cultural norms that would no doubt prove as controversial as homeschooling and abstinence advocacy. The rest of the album is similarly direct and uncompromising in its conception of Christian life and witness.

...Tyson is not a goo-goo New Age celebrity evangelist but is instead part of the intellectually rigorous conservative Reformed tradition, which puts a heavy emphasis on scripture and its inerrancy. Placerita Bible Church, according to its doctrinal statement, “is deeply committed to the absolute authority of the Bible. We are convinced that the Bible is the only trustworthy standard of what we should believe and how we should live. Our ultimate priority is to glorify God by faithfully proclaiming the truth of His Word so that people can clearly understand it and practically apply it to their lives.” That is the kind of Christianity in which West is being instructed. The Gospel According to Kanye | National Review

I would like to respectfully discuss this article and various points made. I don't know whether Kanye's conversion is real or simply a momentary enthusiasm but wonder when someone presents as Christian whether we shouldn't take this at face-value.
Click to expand...

Couple of thoughts.

The example of the Ethiopian eunuch shows us to take faith professions at face value. Time will often show it it was a false conversion.

IMO Christ is now our Sabbath rest, there is no special day. However there absolutely was never a change in the day to Sunday. This is beyond dispute IMO.
 
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