WWJD - Or, where does Christian puritanism come from?

OlNate · May 16, 2019

As a Christian, the one thing I have struggled with is the gap between what we say the Bible tells us about certain aspects of life, and what Christ did during his time here on Earth. Many Christian denominations appear to make a contest from out-"Nope"-ing each other, as if the road to Heaven were paved in repression.

And yet, if we look at the life of Christ, we find "troubling" behaviors that tend to speak to a less severe, more human Savior. Consider:

1) Christ's first recorded miracle was changing water into wine - at a party where we have good reason to believe the folks attending were already rocking a pretty good buzz. One would assume there was dancing there, as well...

2) Christ's closest followers, his disciples, were fisherman and tax collectors. He had at least one prostitute riding shotgun for a good part of his journey. One would expect to hear some course language and some shady pasts in that crew.

3) Christ regularly got into pissing matches with the Pharisees, calling them names and making them look like idiots. The original troll? hehe

4) Christ lost his mind at the temple, when he threw out the merchants, giving them both a physical and a verbal ass whooping (the physical part more pertaining to their stalls, of course - never the less, a rather bold and badass move)

5) Christ was afraid, praying not to have to go through the Passion. He did it anyway, but his fear and his tears stand out as rather human.

These are just a few examples of descriptions of Christ and his words and actions that do not line up to the puritanical expectations of some denominations in the modern Church.

What do YOU think the truth is?

Purposefully left out the Biblical references, I'd love for this to be something other than a verse swap meet.

I know they'll come up, but I would be so much more interested in how you personally reconcile these traits, or if you've ever even noticed them.

Also purposefully dropped this in the Theology section. Atheist friends, I'd love to hear your perspective on this, but please do respect the rules of this sub forum. I report like a mofo in my Theology threads...

This really was meant for fellow believers to geek out on - hoping to keep it pleasant. Thanks, you can call me a dumbass in the Beliefs and Skepticisms forum...hehe...

Ok, over to you guys, any takers?

Dittohead not! · May 16, 2019

OlNate said:
As a Christian, the one thing I have struggled with is the gap between what we say the Bible tells us about certain aspects of life, and what Christ did during his time here on Earth. Many Christian denominations appear to make a contest from out-"Nope"-ing each other, as if the road to Heaven were paved in repression.

And yet, if we look at the life of Christ, we find "troubling" behaviors that tend to speak to a less severe, more human Savior. Consider:

1) Christ's first recorded miracle was changing water into wine - at a party where we have good reason to believe the folks attending were already rocking a pretty good buzz. One would assume there was dancing there, as well...

2) Christ's closest followers, his disciples, were fisherman and tax collectors. He had at least one prostitute riding shotgun for a good part of his journey. One would expect to hear some course language and some shady pasts in that crew.

3) Christ regularly got into pissing matches with the Pharisees, calling them names and making them look like idiots. The original troll? hehe

4) Christ lost his mind at the temple, when he threw out the merchants, giving them both a physical and a verbal ass whooping (the physical part more pertaining to their stalls, of course - never the less, a rather bold and badass move)

5) Christ was afraid, praying not to have to go through the Passion. He did it anyway, but his fear and his tears stand out as rather human.

These are just a few examples of descriptions of Christ and his words and actions that do not line up to the puritanical expectations of some denominations in the modern Church.

What do YOU think the truth is?

Purposefully left out the Biblical references, I'd love for this to be something other than a verse swap meet. I know they'll come up, but I would be so much more interested in how you personally reconcile these traits, or if you've ever even noticed them.

Also purposefully dropped this in the Theology section. Atheist friends, I'd love to hear your perspective on this, but please do respect the rules of this sub forum. I report like a mofo in my Theology threads... This really was meant for fellow believers to geek out on - hoping to keep it pleasant. Thanks, you can call me a dumbass in the Beliefs and Skepticisms forum...hehe...

Ok, over to you guys, any takers?

If you read the words and actions of Jesus the Christ, it becomes clear that he was all about how we human beings treat each other. He had little to say about supporting a theocracy, or about authoritarian governments in general. He had little to say about sexuality, homo or otherwise. He never mentioned the issue of abortion, even though we know it was practiced even then.

No, the philosophy of Christ is summed up in the golden rule, in turning the other cheek, and in how we treat our brothers.

OlNate · May 16, 2019

Dittohead not! said:
If you read the words and actions of Jesus the Christ, it becomes clear that he was all about how we human beings treat each other. He had little to say about supporting a theocracy, or about authoritarian governments in general. He had little to say about sexuality, homo or otherwise. He never mentioned the issue of abortion, even though we know it was practiced even then.

No, the philosophy of Christ is summed up in the golden rule, in turning the other cheek, and in how we treat our brothers.

I tend to agree. Do you ever think we've come to ignore Christ in favor of the Bible? Funny thing, one can interpret the Bible in any number of ways. Yet, irrespective of translation, the accounts of Christ are very similar across the various Bibles out there, and there is very little confusing about his actions...until we try to line some of them up with the words of the Apostles that came after.

Dittohead not! · May 16, 2019

deleted. Fat fingered a key that posted prematurely.

Dittohead not! · May 16, 2019

OlNate said:
I tend to agree. Do you ever think we've come to ignore Christ in favor of the Bible? Funny thing, one can interpret the Bible in any number of ways. Yet, irrespective of translation, the accounts of Christ are very similar across the various Bibles out there, and there is very little confusing about his actions...until we try to line some of them up with the words of the Apostles that came after.

Agreed, you can find almost anything in the Bible, from stoning adulterers to whom may be enslaved the end times and the apocalypse. Christianity, being a real follower of Jesus, the Christ, entails treating others as we would be treated. His was a simple philosophy, but not an easy one to live.

OlNate · May 16, 2019

Dittohead not! said:
Agreed, you can find almost anything in the Bible, from stoning adulterers to whom may be enslaved the end times and the apocalypse. Christianity, being a real follower of Jesus, the Christ, entails treating others as we would be treated. His was a simple philosophy, but not an easy one to live.

Yes...and we put significance on all those things - either directly, or trying to glean some meaning from them. But, we rarely discuss Christ's humanity, and what that means for our own, which maybe should be one of the more significant precepts. I see far more of myself in the "imperfect" (as we are taught we are) Christ than the version where he didn't do any of those things.

RAMOSS · May 16, 2019

OlNate said:
As a Christian, the one thing I have struggled with is the gap between what we say the Bible tells us about certain aspects of life, and what Christ did during his time here on Earth. Many Christian denominations appear to make a contest from out-"Nope"-ing each other, as if the road to Heaven were paved in repression.

And yet, if we look at the life of Christ, we find "troubling" behaviors that tend to speak to a less severe, more human Savior. Consider:

1) Christ's first recorded miracle was changing water into wine - at a party where we have good reason to believe the folks attending were already rocking a pretty good buzz. One would assume there was dancing there, as well...

2) Christ's closest followers, his disciples, were fisherman and tax collectors. He had at least one prostitute riding shotgun for a good part of his journey. One would expect to hear some course language and some shady pasts in that crew.

3) Christ regularly got into pissing matches with the Pharisees, calling them names and making them look like idiots. The original troll? hehe

4) Christ lost his mind at the temple, when he threw out the merchants, giving them both a physical and a verbal ass whooping (the physical part more pertaining to their stalls, of course - never the less, a rather bold and badass move)

5) Christ was afraid, praying not to have to go through the Passion. He did it anyway, but his fear and his tears stand out as rather human.

These are just a few examples of descriptions of Christ and his words and actions that do not line up to the puritanical expectations of some denominations in the modern Church.

What do YOU think the truth is?

Purposefully left out the Biblical references, I'd love for this to be something other than a verse swap meet. I know they'll come up, but I would be so much more interested in how you personally reconcile these traits, or if you've ever even noticed them.

Also purposefully dropped this in the Theology section. Atheist friends, I'd love to hear your perspective on this, but please do respect the rules of this sub forum. I report like a mofo in my Theology threads... This really was meant for fellow believers to geek out on - hoping to keep it pleasant. Thanks, you can call me a dumbass in the Beliefs and Skepticisms forum...hehe...

Ok, over to you guys, any takers?

Just to point out, the story about Mary Magdalene being a prostitute is not quite biblical. The early church fathers didn't like the concept of a strong woman follower that influenced Jesus, so they conflated her with the woman at the well , and marginalized her.

Dittohead not! · May 16, 2019

RAMOSS said:
Just to point out, the story about Mary Magdalene being a prostitute is not quite biblical. The early church fathers didn't like the concept of a strong woman follower that influenced Jesus, so they conflated her with the woman at the well , and marginalized her.

It's entirely possible that Mary Magdalene was actually the mother of Jesus' children, but that's just a matter of speculation. Ever read the Da Vinci Code?

RAMOSS · May 16, 2019

Dittohead not! said:
It's entirely possible that Mary Magdalene was actually the mother of Jesus' children, but that's just a matter of speculation. Ever read the Da Vinci Code?

The Da Vinci code took specuation and legend, then exaggerated it. I don't take the Da Vinci code seriously. It's a piece of fiction

Dittohead not! · May 17, 2019

RAMOSS said:
The Da Vinci code took specuation and legend, then exaggerated it. I don't take the Da Vinci code seriously. It's a piece of fiction

True, but it's still possible that Mary Magdalene was Jesus' wife and mother of his children. Why would he have had to remain celibate?

Daisy · May 22, 2019

Jesus was human, so naturally he had human feelings...he was not void of human emotions...that's a given...he publicly displayed a wide range of human emotions ranging from sadness and compassion to righteous indignation and anger...Mark 6:34; Matthew 23:13-36...

Jesus was a man of courageous convictions and dynamic action...Mark 11:15-17; John 2:13-17;Matthew 23:27, 28; Luke 13:14-17...

Jesus was not pompous and aloof, but was always approachable...he identified with people’s problems and temptations...he was forgiving and merciful...Mark 1:40-42; Matthew 20:29-34...

Jesus showed warm affection and kindness...he was accessible and approachable...Mark 9:36, 37...

Jesus held no prejudice of any kind...even though Jesus lived in a male-dominated Jewish society, he was willing to talk to women, even non-Jewish women...John 4:7-30...he kept an open mind and did not judge by outward appearances....Matthew 22:16...

Yet, throughout Jesus' whole earthly life, he also never lacked self control/human restraint in all things for he never sinned...1 Peter 2:22; Hebrews 4:15...

Babykat · May 26, 2019

OlNate said:
As a Christian, the one thing I have struggled with is the gap between what we say the Bible tells us about certain aspects of life, and what Christ did during his time here on Earth. Many Christian denominations appear to make a contest from out-"Nope"-ing each other, as if the road to Heaven were paved in repression.

And yet, if we look at the life of Christ, we find "troubling" behaviors that tend to speak to a less severe, more human Savior. Consider:

1) Christ's first recorded miracle was changing water into wine - at a party where we have good reason to believe the folks attending were already rocking a pretty good buzz. One would assume there was dancing there, as well...

2) Christ's closest followers, his disciples, were fisherman and tax collectors. He had at least one prostitute riding shotgun for a good part of his journey. One would expect to hear some course language and some shady pasts in that crew.

3) Christ regularly got into pissing matches with the Pharisees, calling them names and making them look like idiots. The original troll? hehe

4) Christ lost his mind at the temple, when he threw out the merchants, giving them both a physical and a verbal ass whooping (the physical part more pertaining to their stalls, of course - never the less, a rather bold and badass move)

5) Christ was afraid, praying not to have to go through the Passion. He did it anyway, but his fear and his tears stand out as rather human.

These are just a few examples of descriptions of Christ and his words and actions that do not line up to the puritanical expectations of some denominations in the modern Church.

What do YOU think the truth is?

Purposefully left out the Biblical references, I'd love for this to be something other than a verse swap meet. I know they'll come up, but I would be so much more interested in how you personally reconcile these traits, or if you've ever even noticed them.

Also purposefully dropped this in the Theology section. Atheist friends, I'd love to hear your perspective on this, but please do respect the rules of this sub forum. I report like a mofo in my Theology threads... This really was meant for fellow believers to geek out on - hoping to keep it pleasant. Thanks, you can call me a dumbass in the Beliefs and Skepticisms forum...hehe...

Ok, over to you guys, any takers?

(This is my personal belief and is based on my own thoughts on his life and the bible in general.) It would have been easier for Jesus to come to earth and sacrifice his life early on, as a child. But he and his father wanted to better understand why humans sin. From a perfect perspective it would seem simple to just follow the rules. You know what they are. So to better understand us he spent time with us. This also served to allow his new teachings to take hold and give us a example to live by. I also hold to the idea that the words of the bible aren’t as important as the stories. I don’t believe that the bible hasn’t been corrupted. I believe that god new the words of the bible would be corrupted. So the truth of the bible isn’t hidden in the words. But instead it’s hidden in the stories in the bible. We have all done that test where one person whispers a sentence to one person and then that person whispers it to another. After a couple of people do this the sentence has changed. But if you do these with a story the words may change. But the point of the story stays the same. Look at jokes how many time have you heard the same joke told differently but the punchline is the same. I focus almost solely on the life of Jesus. I read the whole bible and gleam truths from the stories told. But I don’t focus on the individual words. If you can’t show me at least 3 separate verses from multiple books I’m not going to believe it. Back to Jesus he didn’t want us to focus on sin. Because he knew that our sins would not matter when it came to our salvation. He wanted us to focus on love instead of sin. Because it is by our hearts and our faith not our sins that we find salvation. If you focus to much on sin or the law. You lose site of faith and grace.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

OlNate · May 26, 2019

Babykat said:
(This is my personal belief and is based on my own thoughts on his life and the bible in general.) It would have been easier for Jesus to come to earth and sacrifice his life early on, as a child. But he and his father wanted to better understand why humans sin. From a perfect perspective it would seem simple to just follow the rules. You know what they are. So to better understand us he spent time with us. This also served to allow his new teachings to take hold and give us a example to live by. I also hold to the idea that the words of the bible aren’t as important as the stories. I don’t believe that the bible hasn’t been corrupted. I believe that god new the words of the bible would be corrupted. So the truth of the bible isn’t hidden in the words. But instead it’s hidden in the stories in the bible. We have all done that test where one person whispers a sentence to one person and then that person whispers it to another. After a couple of people do this the sentence has changed. But if you do these with a story the words may change. But the point of the story stays the same. Look at jokes how many time have you heard the same joke told differently but the punchline is the same. I focus almost solely on the life of Jesus. I read the whole bible and gleam truths from the stories told. But I don’t focus on the individual words. If you can’t show me at least 3 separate verses from multiple books I’m not going to believe it. Back to Jesus he didn’t want us to focus on sin. Because he knew that our sins would not matter when it came to our salvation. He wanted us to focus on love instead of sin. Because it is by our hearts and our faith not our sins that we find salvation. If you focus to much on sin or the law. You lose site of faith and grace.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Don't have the time to respond to you right now, but wanted to acknowledge the response, and let you know I plan to answer at length. In a nutshell, whereas we might have slight differences of perspective on a couple items, I think I'm aligned on a lot of the concepts. Great post, can't wait to dig into it.

bongsaway · May 26, 2019

OlNate said:
As a Christian, the one thing I have struggled with is the gap between what we say the Bible tells us about certain aspects of life, and what Christ did during his time here on Earth. Many Christian denominations appear to make a contest from out-"Nope"-ing each other, as if the road to Heaven were paved in repression.

And yet, if we look at the life of Christ, we find "troubling" behaviors that tend to speak to a less severe, more human Savior. Consider:

1) Christ's first recorded miracle was changing water into wine - at a party where we have good reason to believe the folks attending were already rocking a pretty good buzz. One would assume there was dancing there, as well...

2) Christ's closest followers, his disciples, were fisherman and tax collectors. He had at least one prostitute riding shotgun for a good part of his journey. One would expect to hear some course language and some shady pasts in that crew.

3) Christ regularly got into pissing matches with the Pharisees, calling them names and making them look like idiots. The original troll? hehe

4) Christ lost his mind at the temple, when he threw out the merchants, giving them both a physical and a verbal ass whooping (the physical part more pertaining to their stalls, of course - never the less, a rather bold and badass move)

5) Christ was afraid, praying not to have to go through the Passion. He did it anyway, but his fear and his tears stand out as rather human.

These are just a few examples of descriptions of Christ and his words and actions that do not line up to the puritanical expectations of some denominations in the modern Church.

What do YOU think the truth is?

Purposefully left out the Biblical references, I'd love for this to be something other than a verse swap meet. I know they'll come up, but I would be so much more interested in how you personally reconcile these traits, or if you've ever even noticed them.

Also purposefully dropped this in the Theology section. Atheist friends, I'd love to hear your perspective on this, but please do respect the rules of this sub forum. I report like a mofo in my Theology threads... This really was meant for fellow believers to geek out on - hoping to keep it pleasant. Thanks, you can call me a dumbass in the Beliefs and Skepticisms forum...hehe...

Ok, over to you guys, any takers?

Raised catholic and attended catholic school for ten years. I now practice nor believe in any religion.

With that said my whole problem with 'the bible' is, first off, which bible and secondly to the best of my understanding the new testament was created because the old testament had too mean of a god and a kinder one was needed. Secondly, 'the bible' is a group of men deciding what should and shouldn't go into 'the book'. I watch a fair amount of shows about religion on tv and find them interesting. Do I think jesus is god? I have no idea. My thoughts of jesus is he was the original hippie preaching peace, love and equality and I do think that person walked this earth. Other than that I have no beliefs of what others have written and claim to be the word of god. I would call jesus more of an activist than a religious figure and each to their own beliefs.

Logicman · May 26, 2019

Babykat said:
Back to Jesus he didn’t want us to focus on sin. Because he knew that our sins would not matter when it came to our salvation. He wanted us to focus on love instead of sin. Because it is by our hearts and our faith not our sins that we find salvation. If you focus to much on sin or the law. You lose site of faith and grace.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Jesus was clear that if people didn't repent of their sins, they would perish (Luke 13:3).

He told the adulteress to "go and sin no more."

He told the man he previously healed in John chapter 5 to "stop sinning or something even worse may happen to you."

There's other examples also but the point is Jesus did want people to be aware of sin and to turn from it.

Daisy · May 26, 2019

Logicman said:
Jesus was clear that if people didn't repent of their sins, they would perish (Luke 13:3).

He told the adulteress to "go and sin no more."

He told the man he previously healed in John chapter 5 to "stop sinning or something even worse may happen to you."

There's other examples also but the point is Jesus did want people to be aware of sin and to turn from it.

Only those who are looking for excuses for their sins would say otherwise...

Babykat · May 26, 2019

OlNate said:
Don't have the time to respond to you right now, but wanted to acknowledge the response, and let you know I plan to answer at length. In a nutshell, whereas we might have slight differences of perspective on a couple items, I think I'm aligned on a lot of the concepts. Great post, can't wait to dig into it.

I completely understand some weeks I work 84plus hours and don’t have time to respond. I will eagerly await your response.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Babykat · May 26, 2019

Logicman said:
Jesus was clear that if people didn't repent of their sins, they would perish (Luke 13:3).

He told the adulteress to "go and sin no more."

He told the man he previously healed in John chapter 5 to "stop sinning or something even worse may happen to you."

There's other examples also but the point is Jesus did want people to be aware of sin and to turn from it.

1 John 3:4,5

4Everyone who sins breaks the law; in fact, sin is lawlessness. 5But you know that he appeared so that he might take away our sins. And in him is no sin.

Romans 3:20

20Therefore no one will be declared righteous in God’s sight by the works of the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of our sin.

John 1:17

16Out of his fullness we have all received grace in place of grace already given. 17For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.

So as you can see sin is breaking gods law. Now gods law is perfect and no man except Jesus can live up to it.

Romans 6:14

14For sin shall no longer be your master, because you are not under the law, but under grace.

Galatians 5:4,5

4You who are trying to be justified by the law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace. 5For through the Spirit we eagerly await by faith the righteousness for which we hope.

Galatians 2:16

16know that a person is not justified by the works of the law, but by faith in Jesus Christ. So we, too, have put our faith in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by faith in d Christ and not by the works of the law, because by the works of the law no one will be justified.

So as you can see we are no longer under law. But under grace through faith in Jesus Christ. Now to answer your point on sinning no more.

Romans 7:4-6

4So, my brothers and sisters, you also died to the law through the body of Christ, that you might belong to another, to him who was raised from the dead, in order that we might bear fruit for God. 5For when we were in the realm of the flesh, a the sinful passions aroused by the law were at work in us, so that we bore fruit for death. 6But now, by dying to what once bound us, we have been released from the law so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code.

Romans 6:3-7

3Or don’t you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? 4We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life.
5For if we have been united with him in a death like his, we will certainly also be united with him in a resurrection like his. 6For we know that our old self was crucified with him so that the body ruled by sin might be done away with, a that we should no longer be slaves to sin— 7because anyone who has died has been set free from sin.

As we can see through our baptism we died with Jesus and the dead don’t sin. So through is death and grace we have been set free from sin because of our faith in him.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Babykat · May 26, 2019

Elvira said:
Only those who are looking for excuses for their sins would say otherwise...

1 John 3:4,5

4Everyone who sins breaks the law; in fact, sin is lawlessness. 5But you know that he appeared so that he might take away our sins. And in him is no sin.

So sin is breaking the law. Those if you don’t break the law you don’t sin and are righteous.

Romans 6:14

14For sin shall no longer be your master, because you are not under the law, but under grace.

So if we are not under the law then we can’t sins (once again sin is breaking the law) because we aren’t under the law.

Galatians 5:4,5

4You who are trying to be justified by the law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace. 5For through the Spirit we eagerly await by faith the righteousness for which we hope.

But feel free to keep trying to be justified by the law if that’s what you believe. As for me I accept Christ grace.

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kitsune · May 26, 2019

Dittohead not! said:
True, but it's still possible that Mary Magdalene was Jesus' wife and mother of his children. Why would he have had to remain celibate?

That Jesus was single and celebate seems unlikely to me. If nothing else, wouldn't it have put him at odds with his relgion and the people we was trying to draw in as followers? Maybe someone can enlighten me on this.

Checkerboard Strangler · May 27, 2019

Dittohead not! said:
If you read the words and actions of Jesus the Christ, it becomes clear that he was all about how we human beings treat each other. He had little to say about supporting a theocracy, or about authoritarian governments in general. He had little to say about sexuality, homo or otherwise. He never mentioned the issue of abortion, even though we know it was practiced even then.

No, the philosophy of Christ is summed up in the golden rule, in turning the other cheek, and in how we treat our brothers.

IOW all of the things that the most vocal and power hungry branch of Christianity preach against today.
The most well known Christians of today are the clanging cymbals and loud gongs preaching God-approved prosperity, a sneer and a jaundiced eye toward the poor, who are said to be as they are due solely to wickedness, and an overall campaign to promote a kind of Christian "sharia".

Logicman · May 27, 2019

Babykat said:
1 John 3:4,5

4Everyone who sins breaks the law; in fact, sin is lawlessness. 5But you know that he appeared so that he might take away our sins. And in him is no sin.

Romans 3:20

20Therefore no one will be declared righteous in God’s sight by the works of the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of our sin.

John 1:17

16Out of his fullness we have all received grace in place of grace already given. 17For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.

So as you can see sin is breaking gods law. Now gods law is perfect and no man except Jesus can live up to it.

Romans 6:14

14For sin shall no longer be your master, because you are not under the law, but under grace.

Galatians 5:4,5

4You who are trying to be justified by the law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace. 5For through the Spirit we eagerly await by faith the righteousness for which we hope.

Galatians 2:16

16know that a person is not justified by the works of the law, but by faith in Jesus Christ. So we, too, have put our faith in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by faith in d Christ and not by the works of the law, because by the works of the law no one will be justified.

So as you can see we are no longer under law. But under grace through faith in Jesus Christ. Now to answer your point on sinning no more.

Romans 7:4-6

4So, my brothers and sisters, you also died to the law through the body of Christ, that you might belong to another, to him who was raised from the dead, in order that we might bear fruit for God. 5For when we were in the realm of the flesh, a the sinful passions aroused by the law were at work in us, so that we bore fruit for death. 6But now, by dying to what once bound us, we have been released from the law so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code.

Romans 6:3-7

3Or don’t you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? 4We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life.
5For if we have been united with him in a death like his, we will certainly also be united with him in a resurrection like his. 6For we know that our old self was crucified with him so that the body ruled by sin might be done away with, a that we should no longer be slaves to sin— 7because anyone who has died has been set free from sin.

As we can see through our baptism we died with Jesus and the dead don’t sin. So through is death and grace we have been set free from sin because of our faith in him.

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Still doesn't amount to a hill of beans if you ignore what Jesus said, that unless people repent of their sins, they will PERISH (Luke 13:3).

In addition: "For if we go on sinning deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins" - Hebrews 10:26

Is that one in your Bible?

WWJD - Or, where does Christian puritanism come from?

OlNate · May 27, 2019

Logicman said:
Still doesn't amount to a hill of beans if you ignore what Jesus said, that unless people repent of their sins, they will PERISH (Luke 13:3).

In addition: "For if we go on sinning deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins" - Hebrews 10:26

Is that one in your Bible?

WWJD - Or, where does Christian puritanism come from?

I recommend this explanation:

Does Hebrews 10:26 mean that a believer can lose salvation?

The one thing that I hope to ask one day is how differences of interpretation impact this. For example, one could say "it is a sin to consume alcohol, therefore if someone continuously consumes alcohol, then they are going to Hell"...however, there are conflicting verses around the consumption of alcohol, and Christ's first recorded miracle was turning water into wine for a group of people already rocking quite a buzz. So, I interpret this differently, and feel that consuming alcohol is NOT a sin, therefore I'm still living my life aligned with the over requirement of having faith in God.

Without God to play referee, in terms of who is interpreting the Bible correctly, how does anyone say "I'm right, you're wrong"? Becoming an apostate, which your verse speaks to, is a lot harder than folks throwing around the accusation make it sound, I think.

Babykat · May 27, 2019

Logicman said:
Still doesn't amount to a hill of beans if you ignore what Jesus said, that unless people repent of their sins, they will PERISH (Luke 13:3).

In addition: "For if we go on sinning deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins" - Hebrews 10:26

Is that one in your Bible?

WWJD - Or, where does Christian puritanism come from?

Let me ask you a question are you a Hebrew or a gentile. Plus I never said to not repent.

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Logicman · May 27, 2019

Babykat said:
Let me ask you a question are you a Hebrew or a gentile. Plus I never said to not repent.

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Christian

WWJD - Or, where does Christian puritanism come from?

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