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Try to look at Islam academically.

stevecanuck

stevecanuck

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The most difficult aspect of judging Islam solely on what it teaches is doing so without seeming to defame Muslims as a whole. When I quote the verses that, for example, explicitly tell Muslims to fight Infidels in order to establish Islamic rule, I'm invariably accused of saying All Muslims are terrorists, and things deteriorate from there.

So, I propose you try to treat the subject as though you are in school studying long-dead religions. Try to imagine that Islam died out centuries ago, and that you're simply studying it as an academic exercise. Just look at what the Qur'an and hadiths say coupled with early Islamic history. That will allow you to separate cold, hard fact from the emotional baggage of having Muslim friends, neighbours, and coworkers with whom you get along just fine.
 
I am highly critical of all religions, especially the Abrahamic religions, but I have just learned there are some people you can't debate religion with. It doesn't matter how unemotional of an approach you take, there will always be people who take the criticism personally.
 
It is something that the west needs to debate. Does Islam allow Muslims to assimilate in the west? Is Islam compatible with the west?

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Skeptic Bob said:
I am highly critical of all religions, especially the Abrahamic religions, but I have just learned there are some people you can't debate religion with. It doesn't matter how unemotional of an approach you take, there will always be people who take the criticism personally.
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Islam is so much more than mere religion. It, if followed according to the Qur'an, is a way of life rather than something you just happen to believe as you lead an otherwise secular life.
 
stevecanuck said:
Islam is so much more than mere religion. It, if followed according to the Qur'an, is a way of life rather than something you just happen to believe as you lead an otherwise secular life.
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But that is the same for other religions, like Christianity and Judaism. IF you follow it according to the teachings then it is a way of life. Hell, back in my younger Born-Again-Christian days my life revolved around my faith. I lived in Indonesia, the largest Muslim country in the world, for three years and most Muslims there live a fairly secular life when they aren't attending mosque. Seriously, we are talking strip clubs and alcohol and every other vice you can imagine. The exception is the province of Aceh, which is a semi-autonomous region that is populated and governed by more fundamentalist types.

Now, if you are talking about countries like Saudi Arabia that are theocratic, then in those cases you are certainly correct.
 
Eriech said:
It is something that the west needs to debate. Does Islam allow Muslims to assimilate in the west? Is Islam compatible with the west?

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Watch the first minute of this video, and you'll see the problem: Toronto man pleads guilty to trying to join ISIS | Globalnews.ca

Hakimzadah's lawyer said of his client's beliefs that lead to his desire to join ISIS, "If it's not something that he learned from his family, where did he learn it from, and what confidence can we have that he can be deradicalized if we don't know what the cause of his radicalization was?"

That statement demonstrates utter capitulation to politically correct fascism. If we can't even discuss the possibility that Islamic jihad comes from Islamic scripture, then what hope is there for stopping it from spreading?
 
Anybody who has spent more than a few weeks on this forum ought to know that there are Christians and Jews for whom their religion is every bit as much a way of life as it is for fundamentalist Muslims.
Every post they make is about their religion, every debate they get into is from the perspective that everyone who isn't part of their cult is wrong, but not just wrong, "CONDEMNED to Hell WRONG".

Every grievance that they have is based on their religion, every evil they perceive is based on their religion being either persecuted or superior to all others, or both...and no other faith is to be given even the right to exist, or even basic respect or dignity.

There are at least a half dozen such types right here at DP. They are 100 percent theocrat, 100 percent sitting in judgment of all others and 100 percent committed to the idea of taking over the entire world in the name of their religion.

And every once in a while, you can even throw in a couple of Muslims who drop by for a little while, who do much the same thing.
Fundamentalism is a form of mental illness, like hard drug addiction.
 
Skeptic Bob said:
But that is the same for other religions, like Christianity and Judaism. IF you follow it according to the teachings then it is a way of life. Hell, back in my younger Born-Again-Christian days my life revolved around my faith. I lived in Indonesia, the largest Muslim country in the world, for three years and most Muslims there live a fairly secular life when they aren't attending mosque. Seriously, we are talking strip clubs and alcohol and every other vice you can imagine. The exception is the province of Aceh, which is a semi-autonomous region that is populated and governed by more fundamentalist types.

Now, if you are talking about countries like Saudi Arabia that are theocratic, then in those cases you are certainly correct.
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Right. People who call themselves Muslim, and then drink and carouse, either don't believe or don't know what is in store for them in the afterlife. The Qur'an promises such people eternal torment in Hell dozens, if not hundreds, of times. They are not the problem. The more strict a person or a government is in following the Qur'an, the less likely they are to be our friends. The Qur'an says many times not to take unbelievers as friends and allies.
 
Checkerboard Strangler said:
Anybody who has spent more than a few weeks on this forum ought to know that there are Christians and Jews for whom their religion is every bit as much a way of life as it is for fundamentalist Muslims.
Every post they make is about their religion, every debate they get into is from the perspective that everyone who isn't part of their cult is wrong, but not just wrong, "CONDEMNED to Hell WRONG". Every grievance that they have is based on their religion, every evil they perceive is based on their religion being either persecuted or superior to all others, or both...
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Fair enough so far. Religious fervor is not unique to Islam, and I've never said it was. Westboro Baptist bastards may rejoice at the death of gays, BUT they do NOT throw them off of buildings. That is where your comparison breaks down.

and no other faith is to be given even the right to exist,
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And there you go completely off the rails. That's just not true with any religion other than Islam. (Islam allows others to worship as they wish, but ONLY as dhimmis).

or even basic respect or dignity.

There are at least a half dozen such types right here at DP. They are 100 percent theocrat, 100 percent sitting in judgment of all others and 100 percent committed to the idea of taking over the entire world in the name of their religion.
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Waaaaay over the top. Christians who want to convert you ring your doorbell. Muslims who want to convert you fly into your buildings.

And every once in a while, you can even throw in a couple of Muslims who drop by for a little while, who do much the same thing.
Fundamentalism is a form of mental illness, like hard drug addiction.
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Trying to equate fundamental jihadists with (modern) fundy Christians is disingenuous nonsense.
 
stevecanuck said:
Waaaaay over the top. Christians who want to convert you ring your doorbell. Muslims who want to convert you fly into your buildings.



Trying to equate fundamental jihadists with (modern) fundy Christians is disingenuous nonsense.
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You've just disqualified yourself by revealing that you have never sat down with anyone from any of these faiths EVER.
 
stevecanuck said:
So, you didn't read the OP (and when i say "read", i really mean "try to understand").
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If you say so.
I don't believe in organized religion at all, so for me, it's pretty easy to spot anybody who has a fetish...for any religion, or a fetish about people who belong to a specific religion. You happen to believe that all Muslims believe the same way. Several people have attempted to inform you that your point of view is a little strange, but you don't believe them. Far as you're concerned, everyone else is wrong.

You have a ****ed up point of view and no one's going to get through to you. **** it.
 
Checkerboard Strangler said:
If you say so.
You happen to believe that all Muslims believe the same way.
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YYYAAAAWWWWWWWWNNNNNNNNNNNNNN.

I'm sorry, I dozed off. That happens whenever someone trots out that same old lie over and over and over and over.

If you want to do something nobody else has done before, show me something I've said about Islam that isn't true. Be the first.
 
stevecanuck said:
That will allow you to separate cold, hard fact from the emotional baggage of having Muslim friends, neighbours, and coworkers with whom you get along just fine.
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Friends, neighbors and coworkers are emotional baggage? What sort of cult rhetoric is that?
 
ecofarm said:
Friends, neighbors and coworkers are emotional baggage? What sort of cult rhetoric is that?
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Sigh. I'm talking about separating emotion from fact when discussing the teachings of Islam. I don't know how I could have been more clear.
 
stevecanuck said:
Sigh. I'm talking about separating emotion from fact when discussing the teachings of Islam. I don't know how I could have been more clear.
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You're talking about alienation and isolation for the purpose of indoctrination. Typical cult crap.
 
stevecanuck said:
Sigh. I'm talking about separating emotion from fact when discussing the teachings of Islam. I don't know how I could have been more clear.
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If you don't "demonstrate utter capitulation to politically correct fascism" (using your words) you are an Islamophobe and are summarily shut down. It is how the left works with every issue

Keep on keeping on.

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ecofarm said:
You're talking about alienation and isolation for the purpose of indoctrination. Typical cult crap.
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Correct. The entire tone of the Qur'an is one of separating believers and non-believers into two antagonistic groups.

Hundreds of verses begin either with, "Those who believe", or "Those who believe not".
 
Eriech said:
It is something that the west needs to debate. Does Islam allow Muslims to assimilate in the west? Is Islam compatible with the west?

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk
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Is Judaism?
 
stevecanuck said:
Correct. The entire tone of the Qur'an is one of separating believers and non-believers into two antagonistic groups.
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No, that's what your little Islamophobic cult does. We know you got the same advice you're giving. You disconnected for this BS. Pathetic.
 
Checkerboard Strangler said:
If you say so.
I don't believe in organized religion at all, so for me, it's pretty easy to spot anybody who has a fetish...for any religion, or a fetish about people who belong to a specific religion. You happen to believe that all Muslims believe the same way. Several people have attempted to inform you that your point of view is a little strange, but you don't believe them. Far as you're concerned, everyone else is wrong.

You have a ****ed up point of view and no one's going to get through to you. **** it.
Click to expand...

Actually, several people who have never cracked the Qur'an have taken a shot at me personally without once being able to deny that the Qur'an says what it says. Again, what am I getting wrong?
 
ecofarm said:
No, that's what your little Islamophobic cult does. We know you got the same advice you're giving. You disconnected for this BS. Pathetic.
Click to expand...

Give me just one example of something I got wrong about Islam. Just one.
 
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