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Can religion be "debated"?

Elvira said:
It does happen...here are just a few experiences...

Myanmar (Burma) — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY

True Worship Unites People — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY

“Every Scripture She Read Touched My Heart” — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY

Hawaii — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY

1990 Yearbook of Jehovah’s Witnesses — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY
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Sorry, Elvira, can't read all these now, I take my debating in snips and grabs throughout the day...so hopefully you won't mind me asking you directly something I could easily check myself.

Are these examples of witness or debate?
 
OlNate said:
Sorry, Elvira, can't read all these now, I take my debating in snips and grabs throughout the day...so hopefully you won't mind me asking you directly something I could easily check myself.

Are these examples of witness or debate?
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Examples of Buddhists becoming Christians...
 
OlNate said:
But do you see a debate between a Christian and a Buddhist, ending in one or the other converting, or one saying to other "You know, you're right"?
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Take that quote. Remove the "christian" and "buddhist" .

Insert any other opposing ideology. (guns, abortion, immigration, climate, ....)

How often , if ever, do you see that happening elsewhere here at DP in topics that are actually debatable?

Have you ever seen a democrat convert to republican because of debate here at DP?
Have you ever seen a pro-choice person convert to pro-life?
Have you ever seen an American republican decide a European style health-care system would be best?
 
OlNate said:
Deliberately posting this in the Theology sub forum, as this is not an invitation to discuss whether or not God exists, which god exists, and honestly, given the way the Beliefs / Skepticisms forum is going these days, I thought it might be nice to discuss the subject in a forum with heightened civility rules.

My question is: Can religion be debated?

Given that:

- Religion is faith driven. (Much of what we believe has no available "scientific proof")
- Every religion believes in their heart that they have it more right than anyone else (otherwise, why belong to that religion).
- Debating with atheists is pointless because of a completely different / incompatible universal view of the subject and can be provided no
proof that would make sense in the context of how they see things - if they are willing to be openminded enough to consider what
you're saying.

I would suggest no. Discussed...sure, to a point, if everyone remains respectful...but not debated.

What do you think? If you think no, what would make it worthwhile to do it anyway? If you think yes, tell me what I'm missing. :)
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Not fruitfully, except as an intrafaith matter. Episcopalians can debate theological questions within their denominations,because the theological framework and sources are already agreed upon. The basic premises are already in place. But beyond that, it is almost never productive. You can debate the impact of a specific theology, but never questions of religious legitimacy.
 
OlNate said:
I agree with everything you've got here, Vis, but it's not really addressing my question - which is my fault for not being clearer.

What I mean is, debating between different views - you're talking about Christians debating with Christians, or Buddhists debating with Buddhists. That makes complete sense, and is a constant process, even today. But do you see a debate between a Christian and a Buddhist, ending in one or the other converting, or one saying to other "You know, you're right"?
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Vedism is not the same as Buddhism. It's a separate religion that developed into the Hindu tradition.

There is no question that verbal discussions about religion can convert someone; that is the predominant way that religions spread. It's not like millions of people woke up one day and decided on their own to become Buddhists; the religion spread because Buddhists -- in a time when religious tolerance was not a recognized virtue, I might add -- talked people into it. The same is true for most Christian and Islamic conversions.

That said: Getting people to change their minds, especially about topics like religion, is (to put it mildly), a tall order. (There's a lot of research on this btw). Thus, no one should be too surprised that it is infrequent to actually see posters in a forum like this admit a major change. And as I believe others have noted by now, this type of partisan tendency to cling to existing beliefs at all costs is certainly not limited to religious topics. So, if we can't debate religion because people won't change their minds at the drop of a hat, then we shouldn't debate anything at all.
 
OlNate said:
Hi...welcome to DP. Nice first post.

Of course, I'm gonna disagree... ;)

People of all faiths have faith because they are convinced their view of the world is the right view. Given that pretty much all religions require faith in something they cannot see or touch, there is no way to prove or disprove anything, to where the truth can be drawn out. All you get is the kind of fighting and ugliness that has existed between religions forever. And that's between folks who believe there is something beyond what science says there is...now throw atheists in the mix, who come at it from a totally different place and way of thinking, and it gets harder still.

It can be a fun donnybrook, but I haven't seen too much useful come out of these kind of brawls.
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For the most part proof is impossible and even evidence seems impossible for many questions in this domain. (But proof and evidence is not always required in a debate.)

Debate (the dialectic in general) is a process of teasing out approximations to truth through thoughtful conflict. For example, Young Earth Creationists believe the planet was created less than 10,000 years ago whereas most every other creationist accepts the findings of science and realizes the planet is about 4.5 billion years old. The YECs, in this case, are bucking up against extremely well corroborated evidence (as close to truth as we get). Also, compare and contrast biblical literalists (YECs are included here too) who hold that the Bible is the divine word of God and should be taken at face value as truth. Well, imagine then the meaningful debate that can be had regarding biblical passages that, when taken literally, are absurd.

Atheists can engage on topics such as the veracity of the Bible and thus the existence of God as defined by the Bible. For example, an entity defined as omniscient cannot -by definition- be surprised or disappointed by anything. Especially if that very entity is also omnipotent and created the individuals that 'surprised' the omniscient entity. By using the definition of God in the Bible, it is easy enough to show direct contradiction and thus the God as defined in the Bible cannot possibly exist. There may indeed be a god (as in sentient creator of the known universe) but clearly the Bible's definition of God is wrong.

So I see plenty of opportunities for religious debate / discussion (even with atheists) based on thoughtful, fact-based, logical exchanges sans emotion. Rarely does this happen, but it is clearly possible and has the value of giving readers things to consider as they try to get closer to truth based on sound reasoning and facts and away from believing what they are told by other human beings who merely claim they have a special handle on truth.
 
btthegreat said:
Not fruitfully, except as an intrafaith matter. Episcopalians can debate theological questions within their denominations,because the theological framework and sources are already agreed upon. The basic premises are already in place. But beyond that, it is almost never productive. You can debate the impact of a specific theology, but never questions of religious legitimacy.
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Yeah, I think this closest matches where I landed, nothing to refute here from me. :)
 
OlNate said:
Through debate or witness though? :)
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A convo can start out in way one and end in another...where is the line drawn? On my part, it is always witnessing, not debating...for an atheist, it may be the opposite...
 
Elvira said:
And still others convert from atheist to Christian...

For Me, God Did Not Exist — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY

Is It Possible to Build Faith in a Creator? — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY

“You Are Right, Life Is Beautiful!” — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY

Do You Believe in What You Cannot See? — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY
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It's been pointed out to you numerous times that anything and everything "watchtower" is the absolute gold-standard of nonsense when it comes to credible or factual anything.

Nobody outside of JW's themselves would bother to read it other than to re-confirm how insane most of it is.

To perhaps put it in a perspective you might understand, imagine a DP member constantly posting links to Scientology publications.
Would you read the links and accept them as credible and factual?
 
Dragonfly said:
It's been pointed out to you numerous times that anything and everything "watchtower" is the absolute gold-standard of nonsense when it comes to credible or factual anything.

Nobody outside of JW's themselves would bother to read it other than to re-confirm how insane most of it is.

To perhaps put it in a perspective you might understand, imagine a DP member constantly posting links to Scientology publications.
Would you read the links and accept them as credible and factual?
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Get used to it cuz I ain't gonna change...I would trust them with my life...they are more truthful than anyone you know, that's for sure...
 
Elvira said:
Get used to it cuz I ain't gonna change...I would trust them with my life...they are more truthful than anyone you know, that's for sure...
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