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[W: 20] If you do this your religion is useless...

Re: If you do this your religion is useless...

Logician Man said:
And just about everyone agrees the video you presented in the thread OP is excellent, and sends a positive message for ALL Christians to embrace and use as a proper guide by which to spread 'the word." Why anyone would want to make a negative of the tape's message is absolutely just searching for a negative where ZERO negative resides.
Click to expand...

It wasn't the message of the video that was in question.
Taking the video out of context, was the issue with me..............which includes Elvira's attempt to
add to James 1.

For obvious reason (as explained in previous posts) - the video's message does not apply to forums and debates. John 8 was given to support that claim.

Furthermore, there seems to be this confusion between forum disputes...... and hating.

Though posters have opposite views, I don't think hate enters into it. It isn't personal.
Of course I'm speaking for myself - I don't know if others truly end up hating people they debate with.
 
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Re: If you do this your religion is useless...

tosca1 said:
It wasn't the message of the video that was in question.
Taking the video out of context, was the issue with me..............which includes Elvira's attempt to
add to James 1.

For obvious reason (as explained in previous posts) - the video's message does not apply to forums and debates. John 8 was given to support that claim.
Click to expand...

you don't know if the message applies to forums or not...end.....of ...story. You're just throwing stuff up against a wall to see if anything sticks.
 
Re: If you do this your religion is useless...

Logician Man said:
you don't know if the message applies to forums or not...end.....of ...story. You're just throwing stuff up against a wall to see if anything sticks.
Click to expand...

Logic, my friend. That's how we know (supported by John 8).

L O G I C.

:lol:
 
Re: If you do this your religion is useless...

tosca1 said:
Logic, my friend. That's how we know (supported by John 8).

L O G I C.

:lol:
Click to expand...

define 'logic' and how it applies as to why the message in the video doesn't apply to debate forms.
 
Re: If you do this your religion is useless...

Logician Man said:
define 'logic' and how it applies as to why the message in the video doesn't apply to debate forms.
Click to expand...



You don't know logic?
Oh, boy.......now, we begin to really unravel here......:mrgreen:


How it applies has been explained several times. It's all up to you now......review from the very beginning!

Bye for now, LM.
 
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Re: If you do this your religion is useless...

Logician Man said:
you don't know if the message applies to forums or not...end.....of ...story. You're just throwing stuff up against a wall to see if anything sticks.
Click to expand...

It does and I can prove it...1 Corinthians 10...

"31 Therefore, whether you are eating or drinking or doing anything else, do all things for God’s glory.

32 Keep from becoming causes for stumbling to Jews as well as Greeks and to the congregation of God,

33 just as I am trying to please all people in all things, not seeking my own advantage, but that of the many, so that they may be saved."
 
Re: If you do this your religion is useless...

tosca1 said:
It's been explained several times. It's all up to you now......review from the very beginning!

Bye for now, LM.
Click to expand...

I knew you would dodge that one...but that's OK...Kinda set yourself up for a big FAIL with post # 128..
 
Re: If you do this your religion is useless...

Elvira said:
It does and I can prove it...1 Corinthians 10...

"31 Therefore, whether you are eating or drinking or doing anything else, do all things for God’s glory.

32 Keep from becoming causes for stumbling to Jews as well as Greeks and to the congregation of God,

33 just as I am trying to please all people in all things, not seeking my own advantage, but that of the many, so that they may be saved."
Click to expand...

It's the stumbling block of adding to James 1 ......that's what we're trying to correct here. :lol:

We don't want Christians doing ministry in forums to start doubting and feeling unnecessarily guilty over
something that is simply added by a human!



Thank you for bringing that up. It supports my claim.


33 just as I am trying to please all people in all things, not seeking my own advantage, but that of the many, so that they may be saved."


That's why, if we see false teachings - and we have the means to show that it is false - we have to call it out, to warn people from being misled.




And, since you brought up Corinthians.....you might like to check out this other Corinthians.


2 Corinthians

3 But I am afraid that just as Eve was deceived by the serpent’s cunning, your minds may somehow be led astray from your sincere and pure devotion to Christ.

4 For if someone comes to you and preaches a Jesus other than the Jesus we preached, or if you receive a different spirit from the Spirit you received, or a different gospel from the one you accepted, you put up with it easily enough.


12 And I will keep on doing what I am doing in order to cut the ground from under those who want an opportunity to be considered equal with us in the things they boast about.

13 For such people are false apostles, deceitful workers, masquerading as apostles of Christ.

14 And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light.
15 It is not surprising, then, if his servants also masquerade as servants of righteousness. Their end will be what their actions deserve.



cut the ground from under someone’s feet - to spoil someone’s plans or achievements by doing something better than them or by doing it before them

https://www.macmillandictionary.com/dictionary/british/cut-the-ground-from-under-someone-s-feet
 
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Re: If you do this your religion is useless...

'Some years ago, an old English preacher by the name of Smith Wigglesworth remarked, “If you leave people as you found them, God is not speaking through you. If you are not making people either mad or glad, there is something wrong with your ministry. If there’s not a (spiritual) war going on, you’re not doing your job.”

"Another commentator, a gentleman by the name of Arthur Wallis, speaking on the apostolic style of preaching that we see in the Book of Acts, said, “Such preaching makes indifference to the word of God impossible – it sets the hearers into one of two camps. It’s calculated to either produce a revival or a riot.”

"Why was John the Baptist beheaded? Was he a reed swayed by the breeze of political correctness? Was John one of those guys who wanted everyone to be his buddy? Was he someone who sought after his own well-being and personal indulgences? John the Baptist spoke out strongly against the corrupt religious leaders of his day. He went after King Herod and reminded him of his adultery. He called the Sadducees and Pharisees a “Brood of Vipers!” He wasn’t playing the world’s game and looking out for his own welfare and popularity. He wasn’t practicing “tolerance” and preaching a watered-down gospel that sends people to hell. He was preaching the word of God, trying to turn someone to repentance and salvation, and for that he was labeled a troublemaker and eventually put to death. Why was Paul beaten and persecuted? Why was James put to death with the sword? Why were the prophets and the apostles martyred? They didn’t go after these guys for preaching love and tolerance. They went after them because they exposed sin, corruption, and idolatry, and took a stand for what’s right in the eyes of God. They were God’s little troublemakers, and the world couldn’t handle it. The world stood convicted of its sin, and in order to justify its own worldliness and unrighteousness it chose instead to kill the messengers. Sound familiar? And herein lies the crux of this message: Exposing sin and confronting apathy and unrighteousness are critically essential to salvation. Without conviction there is no need for a savior. And if the world has no need for a savior, then Jesus’ life, death, and resurrection has absolutely no relevance or significance."

God's Little Troublemakers

https://righterreport.com/2012/09/04/gods-little-troublemakers-2/
 
Re: If you do this your religion is useless...

Logicman said:
'Some years ago, an old English preacher by the name of Smith Wigglesworth remarked, “If you leave people as you found them, God is not speaking through you. If you are not making people either mad or glad, there is something wrong with your ministry. If there’s not a (spiritual) war going on, you’re not doing your job.”
Click to expand...

Lol.....the preacher I just watched had remarked something similar that went something like this, "If you hadn't recently met Satan on your way, could it be because you're both going in the same direction?"

It's bad enough for Christians to be compliant about false teachings being promoted that lead others astray - but to fall alongside those who try to discourage, or suppress Christians from warning others, and doing ministry in forums - I think, some serious thinking is truly needed.
 
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Re: If you do this your religion is useless...

Logicman said:
'Some years ago, an old English preacher by the name of Smith Wigglesworth remarked, “If you leave people as you found them, God is not speaking through you. If you are not making people either mad or glad, there is something wrong with your ministry. If there’s not a (spiritual) war going on, you’re not doing your job.”

"Another commentator, a gentleman by the name of Arthur Wallis, speaking on the apostolic style of preaching that we see in the Book of Acts, said, “Such preaching makes indifference to the word of God impossible – it sets the hearers into one of two camps. It’s calculated to either produce a revival or a riot.”

"Why was John the Baptist beheaded? Was he a reed swayed by the breeze of political correctness? Was John one of those guys who wanted everyone to be his buddy? Was he someone who sought after his own well-being and personal indulgences? John the Baptist spoke out strongly against the corrupt religious leaders of his day. He went after King Herod and reminded him of his adultery. He called the Sadducees and Pharisees a “Brood of Vipers!” He wasn’t playing the world’s game and looking out for his own welfare and popularity. He wasn’t practicing “tolerance” and preaching a watered-down gospel that sends people to hell. He was preaching the word of God, trying to turn someone to repentance and salvation, and for that he was labeled a troublemaker and eventually put to death. Why was Paul beaten and persecuted? Why was James put to death with the sword? Why were the prophets and the apostles martyred? They didn’t go after these guys for preaching love and tolerance. They went after them because they exposed sin, corruption, and idolatry, and took a stand for what’s right in the eyes of God. They were God’s little troublemakers, and the world couldn’t handle it. The world stood convicted of its sin, and in order to justify its own worldliness and unrighteousness it chose instead to kill the messengers. Sound familiar? And herein lies the crux of this message: Exposing sin and confronting apathy and unrighteousness are critically essential to salvation. Without conviction there is no need for a savior. And if the world has no need for a savior, then Jesus’ life, death, and resurrection has absolutely no relevance or significance."

God's Little Troublemakers

https://righterreport.com/2012/09/04/gods-little-troublemakers-2/
Click to expand...

There is a Planned Parenthood add on you link page. :lamo
 
Re: If you do this your religion is useless...

Logicman said:
'Some years ago, an old English preacher by the name of Smith Wigglesworth remarked, “If you leave people as you found them, God is not speaking through you. If you are not making people either mad or glad, there is something wrong with your ministry. If there’s not a (spiritual) war going on, you’re not doing your job.”

"Another commentator, a gentleman by the name of Arthur Wallis, speaking on the apostolic style of preaching that we see in the Book of Acts, said, “Such preaching makes indifference to the word of God impossible – it sets the hearers into one of two camps. It’s calculated to either produce a revival or a riot.”

"Why was John the Baptist beheaded? Was he a reed swayed by the breeze of political correctness? Was John one of those guys who wanted everyone to be his buddy? Was he someone who sought after his own well-being and personal indulgences? John the Baptist spoke out strongly against the corrupt religious leaders of his day. He went after King Herod and reminded him of his adultery. He called the Sadducees and Pharisees a “Brood of Vipers!” He wasn’t playing the world’s game and looking out for his own welfare and popularity. He wasn’t practicing “tolerance” and preaching a watered-down gospel that sends people to hell. He was preaching the word of God, trying to turn someone to repentance and salvation, and for that he was labeled a troublemaker and eventually put to death. Why was Paul beaten and persecuted? Why was James put to death with the sword? Why were the prophets and the apostles martyred? They didn’t go after these guys for preaching love and tolerance. They went after them because they exposed sin, corruption, and idolatry, and took a stand for what’s right in the eyes of God. They were God’s little troublemakers, and the world couldn’t handle it. The world stood convicted of its sin, and in order to justify its own worldliness and unrighteousness it chose instead to kill the messengers. Sound familiar? And herein lies the crux of this message: Exposing sin and confronting apathy and unrighteousness are critically essential to salvation. Without conviction there is no need for a savior. And if the world has no need for a savior, then Jesus’ life, death, and resurrection has absolutely no relevance or significance."

God's Little Troublemakers

https://righterreport.com/2012/09/04/gods-little-troublemakers-2/
Click to expand...

Smith Wigglesworth, that's a name I have not heard in a long time, long time. I believe it was said that Satan himself appeared at Wigglesworth's bedside one night, and he said "Oh, it's only you".

Your post reminded me of a conversation I had with my Bishop early in my ministry, I was having trouble with a certain passage because I didn't want to offend anybody, except what I said was "I don't want to piss anybody off", to wit he replied, "You're supposed to piss people off". (I am sure some people would be shocked and offended to learn that a Bishop would say something like that, but this guy is a real person, not somebody who sucks up to minions of Satan just to get along.)

You two just go on telling the truth, there's nothing that pisses people off more than that. I get my share of complaints but saying nothing at all doesn't change the situation, they complain just as loud and just as long.
 
Re: If you do this your religion is useless...

it's just me said:
Smith Wigglesworth, that's a name I have not heard in a long time, long time. I believe it was said that Satan himself appeared at Wigglesworth's bedside one night, and he said "Oh, it's only you".

Your post reminded me of a conversation I had with my Bishop early in my ministry, I was having trouble with a certain passage because I didn't want to offend anybody, except what I said was "I don't want to piss anybody off", to wit he replied, "You're supposed to piss people off". (I am sure some people would be shocked and offended to learn that a Bishop would say something like that, but this guy is a real person, not somebody who sucks up to minions of Satan just to get along.)

You two just go on telling the truth, there's nothing that pisses people off more than that. I get my share of complaints but saying nothing at all doesn't change the situation, they complain just as loud and just as long.
Click to expand...

Exactly! :)
 
Calling out and exposing false teachings........ is as much important as doing the Great Commission.


Ephesians 5
6 Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of such things God’s wrath comes on those who are disobedient.
7 Therefore do not be partners with them.

8 For you were once darkness, but now you are light in the Lord. Live as children of light
9 (for the fruit of the light consists in all goodness, righteousness and truth)
10 and find out what pleases the Lord.
11 Have nothing to do with the fruitless deeds of darkness, but rather expose them.






When Jesus said we'll be hated because of Him - I don't think that translate anywhere near we'll be cozy within our own comfort zones! Being hated does not translate to being "friends!" and receiving likes. Nor does it mean that majority of the posters will all agree with you - like as if, being hated will mean you're a runner up in a popularity contest!

Christians ought to wake up and see that modern-day equivalent of the Old Testament (like Jews getting close to non-believers by which they end up getting corrupted and straying from God).......... is here with us today!

I think the forum is the best way to open our eyes about this. Read the posts in forums.
Just look at the Bible compromises Christians are only too willing to do.....just to appease
non-believers.....or to be politically correct...or for whatever motivation they may have.
I think some are even doing it for "likes." Really?



Judas received 30 pieces of silver to betray Christ.....and today, we do it for "likes!" For validity.
For approval from the people of this world, that we were warned to not conform with in the first place!
From a Christian viewpoint - how twisted and pathetic is that?


Because, to become enablers of non-believers, and especially false preachers........ is, betrayal of Christ!




If we find ourselves having more of an affinity or fondness, or compatibility with those who are anti-Christs......that we're like cheerleaders on their side, rooting for them instead, and worse - even trying to justify what we even acknowledge as corruption of the Word ........


...........we have to do some serious head-shakes here!

WHY?
 
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tosca1 said:
Calling out and exposing false teachings........ is as much important as doing the Great Commission.

When Jesus said we'll be hated because of Him - I don't think that translate anywhere near we'll be cozy within our own comfort zones! Being hated does not translate to being "friends!" and receiving likes.

Christians ought to wake up and see that modern-day equivalent of the Old Testament (like Jews getting close to non-believers by which they end up getting corrupted and straying from God).......... is here with us today!

I think the forum is the best way to open our eyes about this. Read the posts in forums.
Just look at the Bible compromises Christians are only too willing to do.....just to appease
non-believers.....or to be politically correct...or for whatever motivation they may have.
I think some are even doing it for "likes." Really?

When Jesus said we'll be hated because of Him - I don't think that translate anywhere near that we'll be cozy within our own comfort zones!

Judas received 30 pieces of silver to betray Christ.....and today, we do it for "likes!" For validity.
For approval from the people of this world, that we were warned to not conform with in the first place!
From a Christian viewpoint - how twisted and pathetic is that?


Because, to become enablers of non-believers, and especially false preachers........ is, betrayal of Christ!




If we find ourselves having more of an affinity or fondness, or compatibility with those who are anti-Christs......that we're like cheerleaders on their side, rooting for them instead, and worse - even trying to justify what we even acknowledge as corruption of the Word ........


...........we have to do some serious head-shakes here! WHY?
Click to expand...

You seem to be very confused with 'non-Christ' as opposed to 'anti-Christ.'...There is a clear and HUGE difference and distinction. Also, I don't recall seeing any posts here in this forum where anyone has stated they 'hate Christians.'. If you have seen any posts in which that has been stated, please post them here for all to see. Otherwise that claim can be summarily dismissed with the same veracity with which it was presented. Correct?
 
2 Timothy 4

Preach the Word

4 I charge you therefore before God and the Lord Jesus Christ, who will judge the living and the dead at His appearing and His kingdom:
2 Preach the word! Be ready in season and out of season. Convince, rebuke, exhort, with all longsuffering and teaching.

3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers;
4 and they will turn their ears away from the truth, and be turned aside to fables.
5 But you be watchful in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, fulfill your ministry.




Romans 16

17 I urge you, brothers and sisters, to watch out for those who cause divisions and put obstacles in your way that are contrary to the teaching you have learned. Keep away from them.
18 For such people are not serving our Lord Christ, but their own appetites. By smooth talk and flattery they deceive the minds of naive people.



Galatians 1

Only One Gospel

6 I marvel that you are turning away so soon from Him who called you in the grace of Christ, to a different gospel,
7 which is not another; but there are some who trouble you and want to pervert the gospel of Christ.
8 But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed.
9 As we have said before, so now I say again, if anyone preaches any other gospel to you than what you have received, let him be accursed.

10 For do I now persuade men, or God? Or do I seek to please men? For if I still pleased men, I would not be a bondservant of Christ.
 
Logician Man said:
You seem to be very confused with 'non-Christ' as opposed to 'anti-Christ.'...There is a clear and HUGE difference and distinction. Also, I don't recall seeing any posts here in this forum where anyone has stated they 'hate Christians.'. If you have seen any posts in which that has been stated, please post them here for all to see. Otherwise that claim can be summarily dismissed with the same veracity with which it was presented. Correct?
Click to expand...

I do mean anti-Christs!

There is such a term/people described in the Bible.


1 John 2

Deceptions of the Last Hour

18 Little children, it is the last hour; and as you have heard that the Antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come, by which we know that it is the last hour.
19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us.
 
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tosca1 said:
I do mean Anti-Christs!

There is such a term/people described in the Bible.
Click to expand...

The bible is a 'claim' only...not 'proof' of anything....( fact ) and you're still confused..There are 'anti-Christians'( against Christ) and there are 'non-Christians.' ( without Christ) You really need to learn the differences between the two. I have not seen anyone in this forum claim to be 'anti-Christian'...only people claiming to be 'non-Christian'. If you have seen otherwise, please provide ANY post in which a fellow member has claimed to be 'anti-Christian.'. If not, your claim is hollow and without any merit whatsoever.
 
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Re: If you do this your religion is useless...

it's just me said:
Smith Wigglesworth, that's a name I have not heard in a long time, long time. I believe it was said that Satan himself appeared at Wigglesworth's bedside one night, and he said "Oh, it's only you".

Your post reminded me of a conversation I had with my Bishop early in my ministry, I was having trouble with a certain passage because I didn't want to offend anybody, except what I said was "I don't want to piss anybody off", to wit he replied, "You're supposed to piss people off". (I am sure some people would be shocked and offended to learn that a Bishop would say something like that, but this guy is a real person, not somebody who sucks up to minions of Satan just to get along.)

You two just go on telling the truth, there's nothing that pisses people off more than that. I get my share of complaints but saying nothing at all doesn't change the situation, they complain just as loud and just as long.
Click to expand...

Oh, you mean like this whopper you told?

https://www.debatepolitics.com/beliefs-and-skepticism/339576-christmas-not-pagan-just-isnt.html

Along with the lie about trinity and hellfire...you mean like those whoppers?:lamo
 
Re: If you do this your religion is useless...

Elvira said:
Oh, you mean like this whopper you told?

https://www.debatepolitics.com/beliefs-and-skepticism/339576-christmas-not-pagan-just-isnt.html

Along with the lie about trinity and hellfire...you mean like those whoppers?:lamo
Click to expand...

No. It's like the big whopper you told - by taking the video out of context.......and, adding to James 1.

Doing the same thing Jehovah's Witnesses does. This is one of their biggest whopper of all -
preaching a Jesus other than the apostles had preached.


Is Jesus the Archangel Michael?

▪ Put simply, the answer is yes.
Click to expand...
https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/2010250



2 Cor 11

Paul and the False Apostles


3 But I am afraid that just as Eve was deceived by the serpent’s cunning, your minds may somehow be led astray from your sincere and pure devotion to Christ.
4 For if someone comes to you and preaches a Jesus other than the Jesus we preached,
or if you receive a different spirit from the Spirit you received, or a different gospel from the one you accepted, you put up with it easily enough.



lol. Seems like 2 Cor 11 refers to JW! :lol:
 
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Re: If you do this your religion is useless...

tosca1 said:
No. It's like the big whopper you told - by taking the video out of context.......and, adding to James 1.

Doing the same thing Jehovah's Witnesses does. This is one of their biggest whopper of all -
preaching a Jesus other than the apostles had preached.



https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/2010250



2 Cor 11

Paul and the False Apostles


3 But I am afraid that just as Eve was deceived by the serpent’s cunning, your minds may somehow be led astray from your sincere and pure devotion to Christ.
4 For if someone comes to you and preaches a Jesus other than the Jesus we preached,
or if you receive a different spirit from the Spirit you received, or a different gospel from the one you accepted, you put up with it easily enough.



lol. Seems like 2 Cor 11 refers to JW! :lol:
Click to expand...

Answer this fair and simple question without any fluff, Tosca. When Jesus was on the cross, why did he cry out " My God, My God, why have 'YOU' forsaken "ME"? Clearly Jesus wasn't crying out to himself. Jesus was clearly crying out to an entity other than himself ( YOU/ME )..Correct?
 
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