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Christianity and the Old Testament

The laws didn't change, but who enforces the laws did.

I didn't bother explaining it to him since he is not interested in being informed, but if you read the verse in question, the parents are supposed to take the kid before the court, not stone him themselves, so he is starting from a false premise. Besides, there are laws that never have applied to non-Jews.
 
On what is your perception of this change in attitude based, Bob? DP posting?
I was raised a Catholic Christian and was taught that the NT fulfilled the OT, completed the grand narrative. You say Christians have by and large discarded this view?

When you say you were raised a Catholic Christian, is that similar to saying, I was raised a Republican or I was raised a Democrat? What does 'I was raised a Catholic Christian' mean actually?

For those that were raised as a Republican or raised as a Democrat. What would their ideas and views be if a new 'Party' were to be added?
 
When you say you were raised a Catholic Christian, is that similar to saying, I was raised a Republican or I was raised a Democrat? What does 'I was raised a Catholic Christian' mean actually?
I was baptized and educated in the Catholic faith, and the family life included observances of Catholic faith.
 
I see. That must mean that you still stone your children to death when they talk back to you.

not stone them, just get them stoned?


“Good people don’t smoke marijuana.” - Jeff Sessions, Attorney General of the United States


Dear Mr. Sessions; Attorney General of the United States:

The word marijuana, which has come under some heated discussions, seems to be out of context in today's terms. Therefore I suggest a modification to the word marijuana to 'weed/grass/mary jane/herb' which might be more suitable for the general audience. Thank you.
 
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I was baptized and educated in the Catholic faith, and the family life included observances of Catholic faith.

Do you remember your baptism?
 
Give a man a fish and he eats for a day. Teach a man to fish and he stops voting for the Free Fish party.

Give a Man a Fish, and You Feed Him for a Day. Teach a Man To Fish, and You Feed Him for a Lifetime


huh? I get to choose whether or not I can feed a person for only 1 day or for an entire life, day in and day out?

So I teach a person to fish but that person does not want to fish. And so that person returns to me and asks for fish. What should I do?

But I give the man a fish and I'm freed from any near future obligations? Is that what this is saying? Maybe it suggests that if a person is taught how to fish, that person can fish for himself everytime he is hungry. Yes! I think that's it.

So I learned how to fish. I was taught how to fish. But after that on the second day, I fished, caught fish, and looked at it wondering what to do with it laying on the shore. How do i eat this fish now, I asked? I was taught how to fish but I was not taught how to prepare the fish.


The proverb goes on.. And so I was taught how to prepare the fish. Descaling, definning, degutting, etc... But then what? Sashimi style? Where's the Wasabi sauce?


And so I was given Wasabi sauce. I ate for a day. When I get taught how to make Wasabi sauce, I might eat for a lifetime!!!


I had to learn 5 things to eat for one day after I was taught how to fish.

1. To fish
2. To wonder what to do next
3. To descale, defin, degut
4. Needing wasabi sauce
5. Needing to learn how to make wasabi sauce


The Wonderful part though is that I no longer need to rely on others to bring me a fish since someone was kind enough to teach me all of these things, hopefully in the same sitting.


Proverbs 15:32 "He that refuseth instruction despiseth his own soul:..."


If I had refused 'instruction' to the above 5 things, I would not have eaten lest another brought me fish for the day.


So you might not 'stone' your child for wrong doing, but what DO you do? Bring your child fish for the day?


Proverbs 22:6 "Train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it."
 
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Give a man a fish and he eats for a day. Teach a man to fish and he stops voting for the Free Fish party.

Give a Man a Fish, and You Feed Him for a Day. Teach a Man To Fish, and You Feed Him for a Lifetime


huh? I get to choose whether or not I can feed a person for only 1 day or for an entire life, day in and day out?

So I teach a person to fish but that person does not want to fish. And so that person returns to me and asks for fish. What should I do?

But I give the man a fish and I'm freed from any near future obligations? Is that what this is saying? Maybe it suggests that if a person is taught how to fish, that person can fish for himself everytime he is hungry. Yes! I think that's it.

So I learned how to fish. I was taught how to fish. But after that on the second day, I fished, caught fish, and looked at it wondering what to do with it laying on the shore. How do i eat this fish now, I asked? I was taught how to fish but I was not taught how to prepare the fish.


The proverb goes on.. And so I was taught how to prepare the fish. Descaling, definning, degutting, etc... But then what? Sashimi style? Where's the Wasabi sauce?


And so I was given Wasabi sauce. I ate for a day. When I get taught how to make Wasabi sauce, I might eat for a lifetime!!!


I had to learn 5 things to eat for one day after I was taught how to fish.

1. To fish
2. To wonder what to do next
3. To descale, defin, degut
4. Needing wasabi sauce
5. Needing to learn how to make wasabi sauce


The Wonderful part though is that I no longer need to rely on others to bring me a fish since someone was kind enough to teach me all of these things, hopefully in the same sitting.


Proverbs 15:32 "He that refuseth instruction despiseth his own soul:..."


If I had refused 'instruction' to the above 5 things, I would not have eaten lest another brought me fish for the day.


So you might not 'stone' your child for wrong doing, but what DO you do? Bring your child fish for the day?


Proverbs 22:6 "Train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it."

But some might say, 'This is Archaic! It has no validity to today's time'.

And what they say could be true.. It's a matter of personal 'interpretation', right?


After all, if the majority says so, it must be.

So where will the 'learning' come from?

If I never am taught how to write a 'check' for a form of payment, how will I ever pay any bills other than typing in card numbers?


Besides, don't you find it kind of 'fun' to teach your kids how to write checks?

i mean after all, you love your kids.. You don't want to 'train' them or 'discipline' them. But keeping the 'joys' away also? What kind of 'love' is that?


Love is not only to 1 other. That is intimacy. Love is to many others also. And often times, the 'majority' should be respected as far as to the 'common' good within those places.


When the 'majority' is as 'free' to do as personal will desires, then things of 'establishments' can become endangered. And when the 'establishments' begin to crumble, a person might ask what the purpose of their 'life' might be.


The first 'set' of immigrants entering in, the parents, are the 'establishments' of their family, whether it be to the 2nd, 3rd, or 4th generation. 5th generation and onward is reaching back into the late 1700's and earlier. The very first settlers would be the First Generation [of U.S citizens]/[Colonists]/[etc]. Before that, there were 'generations' to the Natives.
 
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Out of the Colonists that remained, arose the U.S citizens.


61 years after the U.S Constitution was formally ratified and adopted by all 13 States, the 'Free Love' movement was in the Oneida Community of New York which 'rejected' the 'guideline' rules of marriage.

And in 1872, 24 years later, the first woman to ever run for Presidency in The U.S, Victoria Woodhull, also known as "the high priestess of free love" was quoted as written a year earlier, "Yes, I am a Free Lover. I have an inalienable, constitutional and natural right to love whom I may, to love as long or as short a period as I can; to change that love every day if I please, and with that right neither you nor any law you can frame have any right to interfere."


This was the 'free love' movement that was within the U.S.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_love


146 years has passed since 1872.
 
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Group marriage (a form of polyfidelity) is a nonmonogamous marriage-like arrangement between more than two people, where three or more adults live together, all considering themselves partners, sharing finances, children, and household responsibilities. The term does not refer to bigamy as no claim to being married in formal legal terms is made.

Group marriage reentered popular consciousness in 1974 with the publication of Group Marriage: a study of contemporary multilateral marriage by Larry Constantine and Joan Constantine.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Group_marriage


The Oneida Community was a perfectionist religious communal society founded by John Humphrey Noyes in 1848 in Oneida, New York. The community believed that Jesus had already returned in AD 70, making it possible for them to bring about Jesus's millennial kingdom themselves, and be free of sin and perfect in this world, not just in Heaven (a belief called perfectionism). The Oneida Community practiced communalism (in the sense of communal property and possessions), complex marriage, male sexual continence, and mutual criticism. There were smaller Noyesian communities in Wallingford, Connecticut; Newark, New Jersey; Putney and Cambridge, Vermont

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oneida_Community


Every member of the community was subject to criticism by committee or the community as a whole, during a general meeting.[10] The goal was to eliminate undesirable character traits.[11] Various contemporary sources contend that Noyes himself was the subject of criticism, although less often and of probably less severe criticism than the rest of the community.

"Charles, as you know, is in the situation of one who is by and by to become a father. Under these circumstances, he has fallen under the too common temptation of selfish love, and a desire to wait upon and cultivate an exclusive intimacy with the woman who was to bear a child through him. This is an insidious temptation, very apt to attack people under such circumstances; but it must nevertheless be struggled against."
 
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On what is your perception of this change in attitude based, Bob? DP posting?
I was raised a Catholic Christian and was taught that the NT fulfilled the OT, completed the grand narrative. You say Christians have by and large discarded this view?

Hi Angel
I do share the same feeling with him. But what I do think he means is that Christians in the 21 century distant themselves slowly from the Old Testament. Jesus in the New Testament talks about the new and old wineskins as in Math(9:17) and similar verses.
 
But the Bible accepts slavery and even gives instructions on how to treat slaves...and that allowed a lot of Southern Christians to justify slavery in biblical terms. Because after all, if the Bible doesn't condemn slavery then how could it be a bad thing?

Slavery in the Bible was usually one of three things:

1. Voluntary servitude as a way of existence.

2. Punishment by God on sinful men and nations for their crimes against God and humanity.

3. A sin - enslaving one's fellow man - that wasn't approved by God.

And from my studies, that's it.

Leviticus 19:18 - "..love your neighbor as yourself..."

The question to you from Jesus' teachings is: What part of Jesus' commandment to "love your neighbors as you love yourself" in any way endorses slavery? It doesn't. The fact is it teaches against involuntary servitude.
 
Slavery in the Bible was usually one of three things:

1. Voluntary servitude as a way of existence.

2. Punishment by God on sinful men and nations for their crimes against God and humanity.

3. A sin - enslaving one's fellow man - that wasn't approved by God.

And from my studies, that's it.

Leviticus 19:18 - "..love your neighbor as yourself..."

The question to you from Jesus' teachings is: What part of Jesus' commandment to "love your neighbors as you love yourself" in any way endorses slavery? It doesn't. The fact is it teaches against involuntary servitude.

Defending slavery now and using your god as an excuse to do so ? :thumbdown
 
Slavery in the Bible was usually one of three things:

1. Voluntary servitude as a way of existence.

2. Punishment by God on sinful men and nations for their crimes against God and humanity.

3. A sin - enslaving one's fellow man - that wasn't approved by God.

And from my studies, that's it.

Leviticus 19:18 - "..love your neighbor as yourself..."

The question to you from Jesus' teachings is: What part of Jesus' commandment to "love your neighbors as you love yourself" in any way endorses slavery? It doesn't. The fact is it teaches against involuntary servitude.

Slaves were considered 'property' not 'neighbors.'

Leviticus 25:44-46 (NIV)

(44) “‘Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves. 45 You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property. 46 You can bequeath them to your children as inherited property and can make them slaves for life, but you must not rule over your fellow Israelites ruthlessly.​

And...

In the period leading up to the American Civil War (1861–65), Ephesians 6:5 on master-slave relationships was one of the Bible verses used by Confederate slaveholders in support of a slaveholding position.[20]...

Ephesians 6:5 (NRSV) Slaves and Masters

(5) Slaves, obey your earthly masters with fear and trembling, in singleness of heart, as you obey Christ;​

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Bible_and_slavery
 
Slaves were considered 'property' not 'neighbors.'

Leviticus 25:44-46 (NIV)

(44) “‘Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves. 45 You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property. 46 You can bequeath them to your children as inherited property and can make them slaves for life, but you must not rule over your fellow Israelites ruthlessly.​

And...

In the period leading up to the American Civil War (1861–65), Ephesians 6:5 on master-slave relationships was one of the Bible verses used by Confederate slaveholders in support of a slaveholding position.[20]...

Ephesians 6:5 (NRSV) Slaves and Masters

(5) Slaves, obey your earthly masters with fear and trembling, in singleness of heart, as you obey Christ;​

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Bible_and_slavery

Like I said, - 2. Punishment by God on sinful men and nations for their crimes against God and humanity.
 
Slaves were considered 'property' not 'neighbors.'

Leviticus 25:44-46 (NIV)

(44) “‘Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves. 45 You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property. 46 You can bequeath them to your children as inherited property and can make them slaves for life, but you must not rule over your fellow Israelites ruthlessly.​

And...

In the period leading up to the American Civil War (1861–65), Ephesians 6:5 on master-slave relationships was one of the Bible verses used by Confederate slaveholders in support of a slaveholding position.[20]...

Ephesians 6:5 (NRSV) Slaves and Masters

(5) Slaves, obey your earthly masters with fear and trembling, in singleness of heart, as you obey Christ;​

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Bible_and_slavery

It was a process.. but yes, slaves were considered property. The rules in the bible were part of an evolution... it started laying restrictions on what a master could do to his property. It didn't come all at once, but there was a shift in attitude over time to become more humane (or perhaps, using a less inhumane )
 
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