• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

The Truth is most of folks go to Hell, not to Paradise

Alfons

Alfons

DP Veteran
Joined
Sep 13, 2008
Messages
3,300
Reaction score
244
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
Hey folks, when you carefully read the Holy Bible you know most of folks will go to Hell, not to Paradise.
Those who sin are dead, and they go to the dead. Plain and simple.
To be saved we must repent and stop to commit sin.
 
Alfons said:
Hey folks, when you carefully read the Holy Bible you know most of folks will go to Hell, not to Paradise.
Those who sin are dead, and they go to the dead. Plain and simple.
To be saved we must repent and stop to commit sin.
Click to expand...

Every once in a while I read something like this, and then go check my calendar to make sure it really is the 21st century.
 
Alfons said:
Hey folks, when you carefully read the Holy Bible you know most of folks will go to Hell, not to Paradise.
Those who sin are dead, and they go to the dead. Plain and simple.
To be saved we must repent and stop to commit sin.
Click to expand...

Death is death, not eternal life in hell.
 
<alt>doxygen said:
Death is death, not eternal life in hell.
Click to expand...

Considering hell/the grave will be thrown into the lake of fire, to be forever destroyed along with death, you are correct...Revelation 20:13,14
 
Elvira said:
Considering hell/the grave will be thrown into the lake of fire, to be forever destroyed along with death, you are correct...Revelation 20:13,14
Click to expand...

Yes, my point is that I can't understand those that argue that the "wages of sin is death" but add that "death" = ETERNAL LIFE of suffering in where ever. That's logically impossible.

There are other logical problems with the idea of all of us who have been born (or conceived, per some people) being sinners and the only ones who avoid that type of death are those that, in life, accept Christ and become Christians, but that's another thread, or many other threads.
 
Oh well, we’ll have the best music. ;)
 
<alt>doxygen said:
Yes, my point is that I can't understand those that argue that the "wages of sin is death" but add that "death" = ETERNAL LIFE of suffering in where ever. That's logically impossible.

There are other logical problems with the idea of all of us who have been born (or conceived, per some people) being sinners and the only ones who avoid that type of death are those that, in life, accept Christ and become Christians, but that's another thread, or many other threads.
Click to expand...

We are all dying from the moment we are born...are we not? That is because of Adam...he lost perfect everlasting life for us and Jesus, another perfect human, who unlike Adam, remained faithful until death...paying the ransom for what Adam lost...so it is only logical that putting faith in that ransom sacrifice, can we hope to overcome the death Adam committed us all to...Jehovah did not have to offer that arrangement, He could have left us in a sinful, death dealing state...but He didn't because he loves us and wants us to have a chance at that perfect everlasting life, even though we do not deserve it...
 
<alt>doxygen said:
Yes, my point is that I can't understand those that argue that the "wages of sin is death" but add that "death" = ETERNAL LIFE of suffering in where ever. That's logically impossible.

There are other logical problems with the idea of all of us who have been born (or conceived, per some people) being sinners and the only ones who avoid that type of death are those that, in life, accept Christ and become Christians, but that's another thread, or many other threads.
Click to expand...

To help you understand why your argument will fall on deaf ears, note the underlined words above. :cool:
 
Alfons said:
Hey folks, when you carefully read the Holy Bible you know most of folks will go to Hell, not to Paradise.
Those who sin are dead, and they go to the dead. Plain and simple.
To be saved we must repent and stop to commit sin.
Click to expand...

There are plenty of sinners in heaven, no one is without sin, not me and not you.
 
"Hell is other people."
If you can't place that quote, then you're probably illustrating it in your daily life.
 
Alfons said:
Hey folks, when you carefully read the Holy Bible you know most of folks will go to Hell, not to Paradise.
Those who sin are dead, and they go to the dead. Plain and simple.
To be saved we must repent and stop to commit sin.
Click to expand...

I assume you are speaking of Christianity.

What are the words of Christ that you rely on for your thesis?
 
<alt>doxygen said:
Yes, my point is that I can't understand those that argue that the "wages of sin is death" but add that "death" = ETERNAL LIFE of suffering in where ever. That's logically impossible.

There are other logical problems with the idea of all of us who have been born (or conceived, per some people) being sinners and the only ones who avoid that type of death are those that, in life, accept Christ and become Christians, but that's another thread, or many other threads.
Click to expand...

Logic implies a foundation of cause effect occurrences based on physical evidence.

When dealing in the realm of spirituality, this approach seems to run counter to logic.
 
Elvira said:
We are all dying from the moment we are born...are we not? That is because of Adam...he lost perfect everlasting life for us and Jesus, another perfect human, who unlike Adam, remained faithful until death...paying the ransom for what Adam lost...so it is only logical that putting faith in that ransom sacrifice, can we hope to overcome the death Adam committed us all to...Jehovah did not have to offer that arrangement, He could have left us in a sinful, death dealing state...but He didn't because he loves us and wants us to have a chance at that perfect everlasting life, even though we do not deserve it...
Click to expand...

I've found that I am dying from the point I reached about 35 years. Before that, about everything was getting better. After that? Well I need to stretch and exercise daily to even move naturally...

As far as the religion presented by Christ compared to the religion described by the Jonathan Edwards types, there seems little that connects the two.

I have long felt that God, reviewing the Earthly interpretations of the Word, finally just said that the method of having his words translated by intermediaries just wasn't working so he stopped by to square things up.

Seems like it might have been a better idea to have left a video...
 
code1211 said:
Logic implies a foundation of cause effect occurrences based on physical evidence.

When dealing in the realm of spirituality, this approach seems to run counter to logic.
Click to expand...

LOL, you should join in on some of the threads where logic, philosophy and spirituality get merged. It works until it doesn't, and where it starts to "doesn't" is where the debate stalls.
 
<alt>doxygen said:
LOL, you should join in on some of the threads where logic, philosophy and spirituality get merged. It works until it doesn't, and where it starts to "doesn't" is where the debate stalls.
Click to expand...

Logic seems to rely on proof.

Spirituality seems to rely on faith.

If you have faith, you don't need proof. If you have proof, you don't need faith.
 
code1211 said:
I've found that I am dying from the point I reached about 35 years. Before that, about everything was getting better. After that? Well I need to stretch and exercise daily to even move naturally...

As far as the religion presented by Christ compared to the religion described by the Jonathan Edwards types, there seems little that connects the two.

I have long felt that God, reviewing the Earthly interpretations of the Word, finally just said that the method of having his words translated by intermediaries just wasn't working so he stopped by to square things up.

Seems like it might have been a better idea to have left a video...
Click to expand...

But the fact is, the truth has to be there within the Bible's pages, otherwise He would not have given it to us in the 1st place...the reason for the distortions is as Jesus foretold...he knew it would happen after he was gone and he was right...it did not take long for those wolves to corrupt...it is up to each of us to search the scriptures and prove to ourselves what is true and what is a lie...

“Be on the watch for the false prophets who come to you in sheep’s covering, but inside they are ravenous wolves." Matthew 7:15

A FINE shepherd differs from a hired man, who is interested in only the pay that he is to get. Jesus said: “I am the fine shepherd; the fine shepherd surrenders his soul in behalf of the sheep. The hired man, who is no shepherd and to whom the sheep do not belong as his own, beholds the wolf coming and abandons the sheep and flees​—and the wolf snatches them and scatters them—​because he is a hired man and does not care for the sheep.”​—John 10:11-13.
Click to expand...

https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1980528#h=3:0-5:171
 
Elvira said:
But the fact is, the truth has to be there within the Bible's pages, otherwise He would not have given it to us in the 1st place...the reason for the distortions is as Jesus foretold...he knew it would happen after he was gone and he was right...it did not take long for those wolves to corrupt...it is up to each of us to search the scriptures and prove to ourselves what is true and what is a lie...

“Be on the watch for the false prophets who come to you in sheep’s covering, but inside they are ravenous wolves." Matthew 7:15



https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1980528#h=3:0-5:171
Click to expand...

The ideas presented in the Bible are good ones for the most part.

The Old Testament seems to me to to be a collection of the stories like those of many societies that explain stuff and provide examples on topics ranging from creation to societal structure.

For me, the Old Testament is an interesting bit of literature. I'm not too concerned, though, with what a tribal leader of the third millennium BC thought about a world wide flood that left no evidence.

The chronicles of seemingly endless and ongoing war and the begat-ing are, again, interesting, but have no impact on my life or my understanding of the world except as a historical reference point. I don't care too much how many horns were on how many heads. There are common references we all understand that short cut explanations.

A "David and Goliath story" as an example, prepares us for an upset of dramatic scale. A culture needs shared points of reference. The Old Testament provides some.

Our desire for an ultimate good often inspires us to build structures of law and soon the law becomes the goal instead of the vehicle to find justice. I feel that in many ways, demands of Christian dogma have displaced Christ as the goal.

When religion demands that justice and logical thought be dismissed in favor of dogma, there is something very wrong with religion.

In the cases of most religions, there is something very wrong.

We travel the road to eternity and we ride in religions as we would ride in cars on a real world road. When we find the cars to be defective, we need to just get out and find one that works right.

Isn't that what Jesus showed us to do? He pretty much just discarded everything that was there in favor of what was to come. We need to ask the next question.

It's not just "What would Jesus do?", it's also, "Why did Jesus do what he did?". Why did Jesus decide that He needed to actually stop by to let us know what he really meant?
 
code1211 said:
I assume you are speaking of Christianity.

What are the words of Christ that you rely on for your thesis?
Click to expand...

Thesis to either prove that God is good or to dispel notions of the unknowing so as to.... maybe share the Truth in truer light?
 
code1211 said:
Logic implies a foundation of cause effect occurrences based on physical evidence.

When dealing in the realm of spirituality, this approach seems to run counter to logic.
Click to expand...

When dealing in the realm of spirituality.. God is Spirit. The Father of Christ and Christ (J)esus are not.
 
code1211 said:
The ideas presented in the Bible are good ones for the most part.

The Old Testament seems to me to to be a collection of the stories like those of many societies that explain stuff and provide examples on topics ranging from creation to societal structure.

For me, the Old Testament is an interesting bit of literature. I'm not too concerned, though, with what a tribal leader of the third millennium BC thought about a world wide flood that left no evidence.

The chronicles of seemingly endless and ongoing war and the begat-ing are, again, interesting, but have no impact on my life or my understanding of the world except as a historical reference point. I don't care too much how many horns were on how many heads. There are common references we all understand that short cut explanations.

A "David and Goliath story" as an example, prepares us for an upset of dramatic scale. A culture needs shared points of reference. The Old Testament provides some.

Our desire for an ultimate good often inspires us to build structures of law and soon the law becomes the goal instead of the vehicle to find justice. I feel that in many ways, demands of Christian dogma have displaced Christ as the goal.

When religion demands that justice and logical thought be dismissed in favor of dogma, there is something very wrong with religion.

In the cases of most religions, there is something very wrong.

We travel the road to eternity and we ride in religions as we would ride in cars on a real world road. When we find the cars to be defective, we need to just get out and find one that works right.

Isn't that what Jesus showed us to do? He pretty much just discarded everything that was there in favor of what was to come. We need to ask the next question.

It's not just "What would Jesus do?", it's also, "Why did Jesus do what he did?". Why did Jesus decide that He needed to actually stop by to let us know what he really meant?
Click to expand...

Because the Earth and the fullness thereof belong to Him. Why wouldn't He have come by? It would have been cruel if He didn't come by and let us know that He was there. We might have believed we came from amoebas..
 
Alfons said:
Hey folks, when you carefully read the Holy Bible you know most of folks will go to Hell, not to Paradise.
Those who sin are dead, and they go to the dead. Plain and simple.
To be saved we must repent and stop to commit sin.
Click to expand...

Yes, God made humans knowing that he was going to torture them for eternity for failing to believe in a God who refuses to provide evidence of his existence.
 
crazyme said:
Thesis to either prove that God is good or to dispel notions of the unknowing so as to.... maybe share the Truth in truer light?
Click to expand...

You seem to have jumped in.

What are the words of Christ that support the poster's thesis?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom