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The Truth is most of folks go to Hell, not to Paradise

crazyme said:
When dealing in the realm of spirituality.. God is Spirit. The Father of Christ and Christ (J)esus are not.
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Are you saying that God and Christ are not spiritual beings?
 
crazyme said:
Because the Earth and the fullness thereof belong to Him. Why wouldn't He have come by? It would have been cruel if He didn't come by and let us know that He was there. We might have believed we came from amoebas..
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Did Christ say that we did NOT descend from amoebas?
 
Alfons said:
Hey folks, when you carefully read the Holy Bible you know most of folks will go to Hell, not to Paradise.
Those who sin are dead, and they go to the dead. Plain and simple.
To be saved we must repent and stop to commit sin.
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Who are you to judge?
 
Alfons said:
Hey folks, when you carefully read the Holy Bible you know most of folks will go to Hell, not to Paradise.
Those who sin are dead, and they go to the dead. Plain and simple.
To be saved we must repent and stop to commit sin.
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Not your call!
Stick to being something besides God.
 
distraff said:
Yes, God made humans knowing that he was going to torture them for eternity for failing to believe in a God who refuses to provide evidence of his existence.
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Wrong...God does not torture anyone...
 
distraff said:
Explain hell.
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Sheol in the OT, Hades in the NT...the grave...we all go there when we die...Jesus was there for 3 days, Job prayed to go there to be relieved of his pain and suffering...

HELL

A word used in the King James Version (as well as in the Catholic Douay Version and most older translations) to translate the Hebrew sheʼohlʹ and the Greek haiʹdes. In the King James Version the word “hell” is rendered from sheʼohlʹ 31 times and from haiʹdes 10 times. This version is not consistent, however, since sheʼohlʹ is also translated 31 times “grave” and 3 times “pit.” In the Douay Version sheʼohlʹ is rendered “hell” 64 times, “pit” once, and “death” once.

In 1885, with the publication of the complete English Revised Version, the original word sheʼohlʹ was in many places transliterated into the English text of the Hebrew Scriptures, though, in most occurrences, “grave” and “pit” were used, and “hell” is found some 14 times. This was a point on which the American committee disagreed with the British revisers, and so, when producing the American Standard Version (1901) they transliterated sheʼohlʹ in all 65 of its appearances. Both versions transliterated haiʹdes in the Christian Greek Scriptures in all ten of its occurrences, though the Greek word Geʹen·na (English, “Gehenna”) is rendered “hell” throughout, as is true of many other modern translations.

Concerning this use of “hell” to translate these original words from the Hebrew and Greek, Vine’s Expository Dictionary of Old and New Testament Words (1981, Vol. 2, p. 187) says: “HADES . . . It corresponds to ‘Sheol’ in the O.T. [Old Testament]. In the A.V. of the O.T. [Old Testament] and N.T. [New Testament], it has been unhappily rendered ‘Hell.’”

Collier’s Encyclopedia (1986, Vol. 12, p. 28) says concerning “Hell”: “First it stands for the Hebrew Sheol of the Old Testament and the Greek Hades of the Septuagint and New Testament. Since Sheol in Old Testament times referred simply to the abode of the dead and suggested no moral distinctions, the word ‘hell,’ as understood today, is not a happy translation.”

It is, in fact, because of the way that the word “hell” is understood today that it is such an unsatisfactory translation of these original Bible words. Webster’s Third New International Dictionary, unabridged, under “Hell” says: “fr[om] . . . helan to conceal.” The word “hell” thus originally conveyed no thought of heat or torment but simply of a ‘covered over or concealed place.’ In the old English dialect the expression “helling potatoes” meant, not to roast them, but simply to place the potatoes in the ground or in a cellar.

The meaning given today to the word “hell” is that portrayed in Dante’s Divine Comedy and Milton’s Paradise Lost, which meaning is completely foreign to the original definition of the word. The idea of a “hell” of fiery torment, however, dates back long before Dante or Milton. The Grolier Universal Encyclopedia (1971, Vol. 9, p. 205) under “Hell” says: “Hindus and Buddhists regard hell as a place of spiritual cleansing and final restoration. Islamic tradition considers it as a place of everlasting punishment.” The idea of suffering after death is found among the pagan religious teachings of ancient peoples in Babylon and Egypt. Babylonian and Assyrian beliefs depicted the “nether world . . . as a place full of horrors, . . . presided over by gods and demons of great strength and fierceness.” Although ancient Egyptian religious texts do not teach that the burning of any individual victim would go on forever, they do portray the “Other World” as featuring “pits of fire” for “the damned.”​—The Religion of Babylonia and Assyria, by Morris Jastrow, Jr., 1898, p. 581; The Book of the Dead, with introduction by E. Wallis Budge, 1960, pp. 135, 144, 149, 151, 153, 161, 200.

“Hellfire” has been a basic teaching in Christendom for many centuries. It is understandable why The Encyclopedia Americana (1956, Vol. XIV, p. 81) said: “Much confusion and misunderstanding has been caused through the early translators of the Bible persistently rendering the Hebrew Sheol and the Greek Hades and Gehenna by the word hell. The simple transliteration of these words by the translators of the revised editions of the Bible has not sufficed to appreciably clear up this confusion and misconception.” Nevertheless, such transliteration and consistent rendering does enable the Bible student to make an accurate comparison of the texts in which these original words appear and, with open mind, thereby to arrive at a correct understanding of their true significance.
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https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1200001978
 
Elvira said:
Sheol in the OT, Hades in the NT...the grave...we all go there when we die...Jesus was there for 3 days, Job prayed to go there to be relieved of his pain and suffering...



https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1200001978
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Wrong.

Although Sheol and Hades are sometimes translated as "hell", the notion of a flaming furnace comes from "Gehenna".

Gehenna is a small valley in Jerusalem. In the Hebrew Bible, Gehenna was initially where some of the kings of Judah sacrificed their children by fire.[1] Thereafter, it was deemed to be cursed (Jer. 7:31, 19:2-6).[2]

In rabbinic literature and Christian and Islamic scripture, Gehenna is a destination of the wicked.[3] This is different from the more neutral Sheol/Hades, the abode of the dead, although the King James Version of the Bible usually translates both with the Anglo-Saxon word Hell.
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The JWs, as always, omit the information they want to avoid. Gehenna is NOT Sheol or Hades although the same English word is often used.
 
distraff said:
So the bible has paganism?
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No, the early church fathers committing spiritual adultery by adopting pagan beliefs into their doctrines of hellfire, immortality of the soul, and hellfire...the Bible teaches none of those things...

The Role of Greek Philosophy

The Encyclopædia Britannica (1976 edition) states: “From the middle of the 2nd century [that is, the 100’s] AD, Christians who had some training in Greek philosophy began to feel the need to express their faith in its terms, both for their own intellectual satisfaction and in order to convert educated pagans. The philosophy that suited them best was Platonism.”

“Platonism” refers to the teachings of Greek philosopher Plato who was born about 428 B.C.E. Indicating a direct connection between the Trinity doctrine and Plato’s philosophy, The New Schaff-Herzog Encyclopedia of Religious Knowledge points out:

“Many of the early Christians, in turn, found peculiar attractions in the doctrines of Plato, and employed them as weapons for the defense and extension of Christianity, or cast the truths of Christianity in a Platonic mold. The doctrines of the Logos [Greek for “the Word”] and the Trinity received their shape from Greek Fathers, who, if not trained in the schools, were much influenced, directly or indirectly, by the Platonic philosophy, particularly in its Jewish-Alexandrian form.”

In what way did such “early Christians” employ Plato’s philosophy when molding the Trinity doctrine? Let us consider briefly what this Greek philosopher taught.

https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/101976606

“Christianity, though hostile to pagan Greek and Roman culture, in fact absorbed much classical philosophy.”​—The Encyclopedia Americana.

AMONG those who had a definitive influence on “Christian” thought, “Saint” Augustine holds an undisputed position. According to The New Encyclopædia Britannica, Augustine’s “mind was the crucible in which the religion of the New Testament was most completely fused with the Platonic tradition of Greek philosophy; and it was also the means by which the product of this fusion was transmitted to the Christendoms of medieval Roman Catholicism and Renaissance Protestantism.”

https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1999603
 
Elvira said:
No, the early church fathers committing spiritual adultery by adopting pagan beliefs into their doctrines of hellfire, immortality of the soul, and hellfire...the Bible teaches none of those things...

The Role of Greek Philosophy

The Encyclopædia Britannica (1976 edition) states: “From the middle of the 2nd century [that is, the 100’s] AD, Christians who had some training in Greek philosophy began to feel the need to express their faith in its terms, both for their own intellectual satisfaction and in order to convert educated pagans. The philosophy that suited them best was Platonism.”

“Platonism” refers to the teachings of Greek philosopher Plato who was born about 428 B.C.E. Indicating a direct connection between the Trinity doctrine and Plato’s philosophy, The New Schaff-Herzog Encyclopedia of Religious Knowledge points out:

“Many of the early Christians, in turn, found peculiar attractions in the doctrines of Plato, and employed them as weapons for the defense and extension of Christianity, or cast the truths of Christianity in a Platonic mold. The doctrines of the Logos [Greek for “the Word”] and the Trinity received their shape from Greek Fathers, who, if not trained in the schools, were much influenced, directly or indirectly, by the Platonic philosophy, particularly in its Jewish-Alexandrian form.”

In what way did such “early Christians” employ Plato’s philosophy when molding the Trinity doctrine? Let us consider briefly what this Greek philosopher taught.

https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/101976606

“Christianity, though hostile to pagan Greek and Roman culture, in fact absorbed much classical philosophy.”​—The Encyclopedia Americana.

AMONG those who had a definitive influence on “Christian” thought, “Saint” Augustine holds an undisputed position. According to The New Encyclopædia Britannica, Augustine’s “mind was the crucible in which the religion of the New Testament was most completely fused with the Platonic tradition of Greek philosophy; and it was also the means by which the product of this fusion was transmitted to the Christendoms of medieval Roman Catholicism and Renaissance Protestantism.”

https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1999603
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I don't know how to break this to you but the Bible had not been written in the time of the Early Church fathers, so that means that either your take on the Bible is wrong or your take on the early Church is wrong. Or both.

Also, what the Church gained from the Greeks was the use of logic and reason. If logic is your version of Paganism, I am not surprised at why you are where you are.
 
it's just me said:
I don't know how to break this to you but the Bible had not been written in the time of the Early Church fathers, so that means that either your take on the Bible is wrong or your take on the early Church is wrong. Or both.

Also, what the Church gained from the Greeks was the use of logic and reason. If logic is your version of Paganism, I am not surprised at why you are where you are.
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lol...

"Every word that I am commanding you is what you should be careful to do. You must not add to it nor take away from it." Deuteronomy 12:32

"Every saying of God is refined.
He is a shield to those taking refuge in him.
Add nothing to his words,
Or he will reprove you,
And you will be proved a liar." Proverbs 30:5,6

"So the Israelites did what was bad in the eyes of Jehovah and served the Baals. Thus they abandoned Jehovah, the God of their fathers, who brought them out of the land of Egypt. And they followed other gods, the gods of the peoples who were all around them, and they bowed down to them and offended Jehovah. They abandoned Jehovah and served Baal and the Ashtoreth images." Judges 2:11-13

"Timothy, guard what has been entrusted to you, turning away from the empty speeches that violate what is holy and from the contradictions of the falsely called “knowledge.” By making a show of such knowledge, some have deviated from the faith." 1 Timothy 6:20,21

"No, it was not by following artfully contrived false stories that we made known to you the power and presence of our Lord Jesus Christ, but rather, we were eyewitnesses of his magnificence." 2 Peter 1:16

"Look out that no one takes you captive by means of the philosophy and empty deception according to human tradition, according to the elementary things of the world and not according to Christ;" Colossians 2:8

"Paul, a slave of God and an apostle of Jesus Christ according to the faith of God’s chosen ones and the accurate knowledge of the truth that is according to godly devotion." Titus 1:1

"For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God, for it is written: “He catches the wise in their own cunning.” And again: “Jehovah knows that the reasonings of the wise men are futile.” 1 Corinthians 3:19,20
 
Alfons said:
Hey folks, when you carefully read the Holy Bible you know most of folks will go to Hell, not to Paradise.
Those who sin are dead, and they go to the dead. Plain and simple.
To be saved we must repent and stop to commit sin.
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In the Torah, which are the 5 Mosaic books which contain Jewish law, death is spelled out for many things. The Torah, however, is kept inside the Holy of Holies in the Temple, underneath the Judgment seat of God. This is actually where the term "Above the law" originated. God IS above the law. But hell awaits for those who violate the words of Jesus. From Matthew Chapter 25:

41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:

43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.

44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?

45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.

46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

Being a Christian means walking the walk, and not just talking the talk. Salvation comes by faith, and not of works alone (Ephesians 2:9), but faith without works is dead (James 2:14-26). Works show where our faith truly lies. Unfortunately, many do not understand this, yet it is one of the underlying principles of Christianity.
 
Alfons said:
Hey folks, when you carefully read the Holy Bible you know most of folks will go to Hell, not to Paradise.
Those who sin are dead, and they go to the dead. Plain and simple.
To be saved we must repent and stop to commit sin.
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Then, your pretend god, being omniscient, created us knowing he was condemning us to an eternity of hell. Doesn't that make your god an asshole, and undeserving of worship? He's certainly not omnibenevolent, in any case.
 
Anarchon said:
Then, your pretend god, being omniscient, created us knowing he was condemning us to an eternity of hell. Doesn't that make your god an asshole, and undeserving of worship? He's certainly not omnibenevolent, in any case.
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Even more so that He gave Adam and Eve no warning whatsoever that they would burn throughout all eternity if they disobeyed...He only told them they would DIE...
 
code1211 said:
Are you one of the folks that has had such an experience?
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Yes. Absolutely. A spirit came and my wife and I both saw it.
I will not say anymore because the conditioned response i always get is " You are a liar, and I don't believe you".
Saying that does not change the fact we both saw it.
My cat saw it too, BTW.

My apologies for getting defensive.
 
PleasantValley said:
Yes. Absolutely. A spirit came and my wife and I both saw it.
I will not say anymore because the conditioned response i always get is " You are a liar, and I don't believe you".
Saying that does not change the fact we both saw it.
My cat saw it too, BTW.

My apologies for getting defensive.
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Not a problem at all.

I can no more discount or support your experience than you can support or discount mine.

I accept that you experienced it and only wanted to know if you were relying on a personal experience or the report of another.
 
code1211 said:
Not a problem at all.

I can no more discount or support your experience than you can support or discount mine.

I accept that you experienced it and only wanted to know if you were relying on a personal experience or the report of another.
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I only take to my heart what I see with my own eyes, feel with my heart, and hear with my own ears.

There are too many really over-the-top FAKE monster and ghost shows out there for me to believe any of them.
Killing Bigfoot and Mountain Monsters have to be the absoulute worst.
I do not even watch the ghost shows anymore. I am sure they are up to all their fakery as before.

Thank you for not being offended.
The three of us all experienced this paranormal even all at the same time.
My wife, I, and our cat.
 
PleasantValley said:
I only take to my heart what I see with my own eyes, feel with my heart, and hear with my own ears.

There are too many really over-the-top FAKE monster and ghost shows out there for me to believe any of them.
Killing Bigfoot and Mountain Monsters have to be the absoulute worst.
I do not even watch the ghost shows anymore. I am sure they are up to all their fakery as before.

Thank you for not being offended.
The three of us all experienced this paranormal even all at the same time.
My wife, I, and our cat.
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I had a cat once. More accurately, I was married to a woman that had numerous cats over several years. She still has them i assume.

In my experience, they didn't experience much that didn't impact their food, sleep or baths.

If the cat saw this thing, it must be real. :)
 
code1211 said:
I had a cat once. More accurately, I was married to a woman that had numerous cats over several years. She still has them i assume.

In my experience, they didn't experience much that didn't impact their food, sleep or baths.

If the cat saw this thing, it must be real. :)
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Thank you. I can explain in PM when i get back from Nacogdoches if you like.
 
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