More on hell Elvira

No, what defies exegetical principles ad common sense is believing in a god, who's most dominant quality is love, would/could torture any one of His creation with burning forever and and ever, no matter how evil that creation becomes...maybe your god does but not my God, the true God, Jehovah...He would never consider such a cruelty...and yes, I used lower case g for a reason...

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Maybe not in the JW Bible, but in my Bible hell is spelled out very clearly. Do you want more examples? I'll show you the Greek words and what they mean.

Do you just gloss over the word destruction in order to satisfy your own selfish desire to see someone suffer?

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My selfish desire to see someone suffer? Listen, lady, Anglicans won't let someone die for lack of a blood transfusion, neither will Catholics, Baptists, maybe not even Mormons. The reality is that you don't even have a good grasp of what "hell" actually is, or who God is. I know that because you don't trust Him, so you made up your own God.

Do you actually think about what you say before you say it? SMH...

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If I hadn't I wouldn't have said it. As it is I have thought about it for several decades, all the way through priestly formation, while I am sitting at home and when I walk along the road, when I lie down and when I get up. I don't think about much else.

That is because it is not just...a person lives 70-80 years on average to perform whatever evil acts he wishes, but yet God tortures him forever? The punishment does not fit the crime now, does it?

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So now, Elvira, JW lay person, passes judgment on God's judgement.

Link?
I think it is just you.

MTAtech said:

Link?
I think it is just you.

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The original argument is here, last page or next to last page:

https://www.debatepolitics.com/sex-and-sexuality/325038-thoughts-god-and-gays-w-472-a.html

The day is still young, I won't be alone for long.

No, what defies exegetical principles ad common sense is believing in a god, who's most dominant quality is love, would/could torture any one of His creation with burning forever and and ever, no matter how evil that creation becomes...maybe your god does but not my God, the true God, Jehovah.

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How does it defy common sense when the Jehovah of the old Testament is consistent with the Jehovah who warns of everlasting punishment in hell?

How many times did the old Testament Jehovah warned the Jews about not keeping His Commandments? He gave the consequences for their disobedience - explicitly - and many times He followed through with His threat!


To say that the Biblical God isn't serious about everlasting punishment for those who aren't saved, is what would defy common sense. It would be inconsistent.
The Old Testament is a historical depiction that we may understand. If The biblical Jehovah of the Old Testament has warned us about hell - we better learn from the Old Testament (how God had warned the Jews), and believe that there is such a place that God refers to as hell. We've been forewarned. That's the very reason why we have a Saviour!

To accept God's invitation, or not - is the most important decision a human will ever make in his entire life.



That the severity of punishment is hard for the human mind to fathom, is not reason enough to doubt that it will done.

As humans we would not even think of torturing someone we love, least of all our own children, and yet some denominations believe Jehovah would do such a thing to us.

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But humans aren't God. They aren't The Creator.



This question will no doubt be relished by the anti-Gods, but it has to be asked in response to that rationale:

Would a normal human wipe out his entire family whom he loves - which include innocent children, born or yet unborn - for an offense by one or two family members?


Although we are made in the image of God, that doesn't make us anywhere like Him. His thoughts and ways are not ours.


What do we understand of love?
Would you send your only son - whom you love - to be tortured and crucified to save others?

As humans we would not even think of torturing someone we love, least of all our own children, and yet some denominations believe Jehovah would do such a thing to us. ...many ancient nations that did not serve Jehovah practiced child sacrifice, but Jehovah said that this was some thin ‘that he had not commanded and that had not come up into his heart.’

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JWs don't believe God and Jesus are One and the same. That belief poses a big contradiction to your statement above.


Jesus was the Sacrificial lamb. Wouldn't that be child sacrifice?


The Bible stipulated that God had sent His own beloved Son to be tortured and crucified.

Did the Bible stipulate anywhere that Jesus Christ had volunteered Himself to be tortured and crucified?
So, why did God sent His own Son to face such agony?

Loving human parents would willingly die for their children - and yet God instead, had volunteered and sent his own Son to do the dying.

tosca1 said:

JWs don't believe God and Jesus are One and the same. That belief poses a big contradiction to your statement above.


Jesus was the Sacrificial lamb. Wouldn't that be child sacrifice?


The Bible stipulated that God had sent His own beloved Son to be tortured and crucified.

Did the Bible stipulate anywhere that Jesus Christ had volunteered Himself to be tortured and crucified?
So, why did God sent His own Son to face such agony?

Loving human parents would willingly die for their children - and yet God instead, had volunteered and sent his own Son to do the dying.

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The part that you are missing is that in Trinitarian theology Jesus IS God, and God is the only one who can save you, which is one of the many reasons why Arian theology doesn't work. God as Jesus took on a brutal physical death, and if that doesn't appeal to your humanity nothing will.

On the subject of hell, I am not entirely sure that it is a flaming inferno. I imagine hell as a life like the one we have now, with all of it's illnesses, injuries, vicissitudes, but no hope - separation from God. I have no idea how true that is and neither does anybody else, but haters of God will seize on any explanation they can blame on God. The point is, if you trust God you need not worry, if you don't, God will let you have it your way.

it's just me said:

The part that you are missing is that in Trinitarian theology Jesus IS God

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Actually, that's my point.

JWs, on the other hand, don't believe Jesus is God Himself therefore, there lies the big contradiction in her reasoning.

On the subject of hell, I am not entirely sure that it is a flaming inferno.

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I'm not arguing that it will necessarily be a fiery place - I'm not sure either - although at least 3 verses had described it as such.
Whatever it is, God had referred to a place, or a condition, that He calls hell.
And from how it is described - it is an eternal place or condition of torment.

If the unsaved are merely going to be extinguished - or will die - then, how are they going to experience "torment?"

tosca1 said:

Actually, that's my point.

JWs, on the other hand, don't believe Jesus is God Himself therefore, there lies the big contradiction in her reasoning.






I'm not arguing that it will necessarily be a fiery place - I'm not sure either - although at least 3 verses had described it as such.
Whatever it is, God had referred to a place, or a condition, that He calls hell.
And from how it is described - it is an eternal place or condition of torment.

If the unsaved are merely going to be extinguished - or will die - then, how are they going to experience "torment?"

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This is not to mention the fact that if there is no hell, why bother subscribing to any religion at all, or to take it a step further, why not claim that your God wants you to sacrifice babies, since there are no eternal consequences?

On the subject of hell, though, the Bible makes it plain that hell is a place you don't want to go, whatever it is.

Yeah, I've thought of the "fiery lake" similar to what It's Just Me described (like the life we have now, but with no hope for God) ... I've also thought of the "eternal punishment" not as an eternal punishment paying for ~70+- years of life choices, but rather that, since people keep sinning and rejecting God every day, that the punishment keeps adding up every day (infinite sin/rejection = infinite punishment/separation).

Now, as to how true any of that is, I don't exactly know... I just know that trusting in God leads to eternal life in fellowship with him and rejecting God leads to something compared to a "lake of fire" and other undesirable imagery.

Plus, even though I've only been alive 27.5 years, I've felt both sides (what it's like to truly have God, and what it's like to not truly have God). Without truly having God (being a Christian, going to church, but just going through the motions), I wasted away my late teens and most of my 20s being in a state of envy/jealousy/depression/"why can't I have and experience what THEY have and experience"/"why me"/etc. etc. etc. --- I lost many good years of life and working for God because of that depression hell-hole (well, in a way it wasn't a waste because it helped me to find God, but you know what I mean). Let's just say that I do NOT want to spend an eternity separated from God and feeling like I felt in my late teens and most of my 20s............

gfm7175 said:

Yeah, I've thought of the "fiery lake" similar to what It's Just Me described (like the life we have now, but with no hope for God) ... I've also thought of the "eternal punishment" not as an eternal punishment paying for ~70+- years of life choices, but rather that, since people keep sinning and rejecting God every day, that the punishment keeps adding up every day (infinite sin/rejection = infinite punishment/separation).

Now, as to how true any of that is, I don't exactly know... I just know that trusting in God leads to eternal life in fellowship with him and rejecting God leads to something compared to a "lake of fire" and other undesirable imagery.

Plus, even though I've only been alive 27.5 years, I've felt both sides (what it's like to truly have God, and what it's like to not truly have God). Without truly having God (being a Christian, going to church, but just going through the motions), I wasted away my late teens and most of my 20s being in a state of envy/jealousy/depression/"why can't I have and experience what THEY have and experience"/"why me"/etc. etc. etc. --- I lost many good years of life and working for God because of that depression hell-hole (well, in a way it wasn't a waste because it helped me to find God, but you know what I mean). Let's just say that I do NOT want to spend an eternity separated from God and feeling like I felt in my late teens and most of my 20s............

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I had a flash of insight talking to someone about the suffering they have endured in their lifetime, and it occurred to me that some of us have endured our own hell at one time or another, like Lazarus, who wanted only to have the scraps from the rich man's table, covered with sores. But, in the things we have done, and what we have left undone, how many people have we put into a hell of their own - neighbors, brothers, sisters, mothers, fathers, children, grandchildren! Some may say that God is not going to punish someone for all eternity for a mere lifetimes worth of misdeeds and evil deeds with a selfish intent. BUT - how many lives have they ruined with their evil in a lifetime? Dozens? Hundreds? Thousands? Then, how many people's lives have those people ruined? Dozens? Hundreds? Thousands?

J.C. Ryle said:

There are few more dreadful passages perhaps in the whole Bible, than this one. And let it be remembered, that He from whose lips it came, was one who delighted in mercy!

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Are references to hell, figures of speech?
Are the depictions of sufferings (such as burning for eternity, the gnashing of teeth), merely exaggerations to scare the unsaved
into coming to God?

The JW's don't believe Jesus is God. Really? They have to kick a ton of scriptures to the curb to try to make that lie work.

Here's just a small scriptural sampling confirming the deity of Jesus Christ:

John 1:23 quotes Isaiah 40:3 as saying John the Baptist was to prepare the way for the LORD (Jehovah). John prepared the way before Jesus so Jesus must be LORD (Jehovah).

In Isaiah 44:8 God is the only Rock. Psalm 18:31 says, “Who is the Rock except our God”? I Corinthians 10:4, identifies Jesus as the Rock. Jesus must also then be God the Rock.

Isaiah 44:24 says that God (Jehovah) is the one who has made all things. Colossians 1:16, speaking of Christ, says that “all things were created by Him and for him”. Jesus must therefore be Jehovah God.

In Jeremiah 10:10 it says “the LORD (Jehovah) is the true God”. I John 5:20 states that Jesus is the “true God”. Jesus must be the true God.

Isaiah 43:10,11 says that “I, even I, am the LORD; and there is no savior besides Me. Jesus is the Savior (Matthew 1:21, Titus 2:13; 2 Peter 1:1, etc., etc.). Jesus must be God the Savior.

Jehovah knows all things (Psalm 147:5). Jesus knows “all things.” (John 16:30). Jesus must be Jehovah.

Jehovah alone is the only one who knows the hearts of all men. (1 Kings 8:39; Jeremiah 17:9-10). Jesus knows the hearts of all men. (John 2:24-25; Rev. 2:18, 23). Jesus must be God.

Jehovah is our sanctifier. (Exodus 31:13). Jesus sanctifies us (Hebrews 10:10). Only God is the sanctifier of men. Jesus must be God.

Jehovah is our peace (Judges 6:23). Jesus is our peace (Ephesians 2:14). Jesus must be Jehovah.

Jehovah is our righteousness (Jeremiah 23:6). Jesus is our righteousness. (Romans 3:21-22; 1 Corinthians 1:30). Jesus must be Jehovah.

Jehovah is the giver of life who will not allow His people to be delivered / snatched out of His hand (Deuteronomy 32:39). Jesus is the giver of life who will not allow His people to be “snatched” out of His hand. (John 10:28). Jesus must be Jehovah.

Jehovah’s voice is “like the roar of rushing waters” (Ezekiel 43:2). Jesus’ “voice was like the sound of rushing waters” (Revelation 1:15). Jesus must be Jehovah.

Jehovah is present everywhere.(Proverbs 15:3; Jeremiah 23:24; I Kings 8:27); Jesus is omnipresent (John 1:48; Matthew 18:20; 28:20). Jesus must be Jehovah.

Jehovah’s nature does not change (Malachi 3:6). Jesus’ nature does not change. (Hebrews 13:8).

Jehovah is the only God we are to “serve”(2 Kings 17:35); Jesus (identified as the Creator in Colossians 1:16-17) is to be served (Colossians 3:24). Jesus must be Jehovah.

Jehovah the Lord is to be set apart as holy (Isaiah 8:12b-13). Jesus, as Lord, is to be set apart as holy (1 Peter 3:14b-15a).

Jehovah’s glory is not to be given to another (Isaiah 42:8). Jesus shares Jehovah’s glory (John 17:5). Jesus must be Jehovah.

God’s name is Jehovah (or Yahweh—YHWH – Isaiah 42:8). Jesus has Jehovah’s name (John 17:11; John 16:14-15). Jesus must be Jehovah.

Jehovah is the “mighty God” (Jeremiah 32:17-18; Isaiah 10:20-21). Jesus is the “mighty God”
(Isaiah 9:6) who is “Almighty” (Revelation 1:7-8).

Jehovah is “the first and the last” (Isaiah 44:6; 48:12). Jesus is the “first and the last” (Revelation 1:17-18; 22:12-13, 20). Jesus must be Jehovah.

Jehovah is the “Alpha and the Omega” (Revelation 1:8; Revelation 21:6-7). Jesus is the “Alpha and the Omega” (Revelation 22:12-13, 20). Jesus must be Jehovah.

Jehovah’s title is “the Holy One” (Isaiah 47:4). Jesus is “the Holy One” (Acts 3:14; John 6:69). Jesus must be Jehovah, the Holy One.

Jehovah is the “stumbling stone” of Israel (Isaiah 8:13-15). Jesus is the “stumbling stone” of Israel (1 Peter 2:6-8). Jesus must be Jehovah.

Jehovah is the great Judge who gives life to whom he wishes and who renders to each man “according” to his “deeds” (Psalm 98:9; Deuteronomy 32:39; Jeremiah 17:9-10). Jesus is the only judge who gives life to whom he wishes and renders to each man “according” to his “deeds” (John 5:21-22; Revelation 2:18, 23). Jesus must be Jehovah.

Jehovah is the great “shepherd” who leads his people to “the spring of the water of life” (Psalm 23:1-2; Revelation 21:6-7). Jesus as the “shepherd” of His people, leads them “to springs of the water of life” (John 10:11-18; Revelation 7:17). THERE IS ONLY ONE SHEPHERD –John 10:16.

Jehovah is “Lord of Lords” (Deuteronomy 10:17). Jesus is “Lord of Lords.” (Revelation 17:14; 19:16). The Father is Lord of all (Matthew 11:25; Acts 17:24). Jesus is “Lord of all.” (Acts 10:36). THERE IS ONLY ONE LORD (Jude 4) .

https://righterreport.com/2011/09/29/jesus-must-be-jehovah-god/

And here's even more scriptural evidences that Jesus is God:

https://righterreport.com/2013/03/21/the-deity-of-jesus-christ-in-scripture/

tosca1 said:

Are references to hell, figures of speech?
Are the depictions of sufferings (such as burning for eternity, the gnashing of teeth), merely exaggerations to scare the unsaved
into coming to God?

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That's what Charles Hodge thought, in book 3 of his "Systematic Theology" -

"There seems to be no more reason for supposing that the fire spoken of in Scripture is to be literal fire, or that the worm that never dies is a literal worm....The common doctrine is that the conscious existence of the soul after the death of the body is unending, that there is no repentance or or reformation in the future world; that those who depart this life unreconciled to God remain forever in this state of alienation, and therefore are forever sinful and miserable.

it's just me said:

That's what Charles Hodge thought, in book 3 of his "Systematic Theology" -

"There seems to be no more reason for supposing that the fire spoken of in Scripture is to be literal fire, or that the worm that never dies is a literal worm....The common doctrine is that the conscious existence of the soul after the death of the body is unending, that there is no repentance or or reformation in the future world; that those who depart this life unreconciled to God remain forever in this state of alienation, and therefore are forever sinful and miserable.

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Let's remember though that we can only see this as a speculation. Who can really say?

tosca1 said:

Let's remember though that we can only see this as a speculation. Who can really say?

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The Bible interprets itself. Do you think Satan was literally a snake in the garden, or more like a snake in the grass? Hard to say, but you know that no good can come from listening to him. It's the same with the descriptions of hell - whatever it is, it's a place where you don't want to be.

Logicman said:

And here's even more scriptural evidences that Jesus is God:

https://righterreport.com/2013/03/21/the-deity-of-jesus-christ-in-scripture/

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Their theology doesn't hold together because they claim to have salvation while denying the One who gives it to them. CT Russell worked in a clothing store, he was not a theologian. Over the years they have been wrong about everything that have taught:

1877: Christ's kingdom would hold full sway over the earth in 1914; the Jews, as a people, would be restored to God's favor; the "saints" would be carried to heaven.[28]
1891: 1914 would be "the farthest limit of the rule of imperfect men."
1904: "World-wide anarchy" would follow the end of the Gentile Times in 1914.
1916: World War I would terminate in Armageddon and the rapture of the "saints".
1917: In 1918, Christendom would go down as a system to oblivion and be succeeded by revolutionary governments. God would "destroy the churches wholesale and the church members by the millions." Church members would "perish by the sword of war, revolution and anarchy." The dead would lie unburied. In 1920 all earthly governments would disappear, with worldwide anarchy prevailing.
1920: Messiah's kingdom would be established in 1925 and bring worldwide peace. God would begin restoring the earth. Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and other faithful patriarchs would be resurrected to perfect human life and be made princes and rulers, the visible representatives of the New Order on earth. Those who showed themselves obedient to God would never die.
1922: The anti-typical "jubilee" that would mark God's intervention in earthly affairs would take place "probably the fall" of 1925.
1924: God's restoration of Earth would begin "shortly after" October 1, 1925. Jerusalem would be made the world's capital. Resurrected "princes" such as Abel, Noah, Moses and John the Baptist would give instructions to their subjects around the world by radio, and airplanes would transport people to and from Jerusalem from all parts of the globe in just "a few hours".
1938: Armageddon was too close for marriage or child bearing.
1941: There were only "months" remaining until Armageddon.
1942: Armageddon was "immediately before us."
1961: Awake! magazine stated that Armageddon "will come in the twentieth century. ... This generation will see its fulfillment."
1966: It would be 6000 years since man's creation in the fall of 1975 and it would be "appropriate" for Christ's thousand-year reign to begin at that time. Time was "running out, no question about that."The "immediate future" was "certain to be filled with climactic events ... within a few years at most", the final parts of Bible prophecy relating to the "last days" would undergo fulfillment as Christ's reign began.
1967: The end-time period (beginning in 1914) was claimed to be so far advanced that the time remaining could "be compared, not just to the last day of a week, but rather, to the last part of that day".
1968: No one could say "with certainty" that the battle of Armageddon would begin in 1975, but time was "running out rapidly" with "earthshaking events" soon to take place. In March 1968 there was a "short period of time left", with "only about ninety months left before 6000 years of man's existence on earth is completed".
1969: The existing world order would not last long enough for young people to grow old; the world system would end "in a few years." Young Witnesses were told not to bother pursuing tertiary education for this reason.
1971: The "battle in the day of Jehovah" was described as beginning "hortly, within our twentieth century".
1974: There was just a "short time remaining before the wicked world's end" and Witnesses were commended for selling their homes and property to "finish out the rest of their days in this old system in the pioneer service."
1984: There were "many indications" that "the end" was closer than the end of the 20th century.
1989: The Watchtower asserted that Christian missionary work begun in the first century would "be completed in our 20th century". When the magazine was republished in bound volumes, the phrase "in our 20th century" was replaced with the less specific "in our day".

But any prophet who falsely claims to speak in my name or who speaks in the name of another god must die.’

“But you may wonder, ‘How will we know whether or not a prophecy is from the Lord?’ If the prophet speaks in the Lord’s name but his prediction does not happen or come true, you will know that the Lord did not give that message. That prophet has spoken without my authority and need not be feared.

-Deut 18:20

This is the Jehovah's Witnesses excuse for all of the false prophecies:

Gregory I, pope from 590 to 604 C.E., in a letter to a European monarch, said: “We also wish Your Majesty to know, as we have learned from the words of Almighty God in Holy Scriptures, that the end of the present world is already near and that the unending Kingdom of the Saints is approaching.”

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Here is the rest of the quote from Gregory:

We also wish Your Majesty to know, as we have learned from the words of Almighty God in Holy Scriptures, that the end of the present world is already near and that the unending Kingdom of the Saints is approaching. As this same end of the world is drawing nigh, many unusual things will happen - climactic changes, terrors from heaven, unseasonable tempests, wars, famines, pestilences, earthquakes. All these things are not to come in our own days, but they will follow upon our times.

Notice he didn't give a date, he just named some time in the future.

In the 16th century, Martin Luther, progenitor of the Lutheran Church, predicted that the end was imminent. According to one authority, he stated: “For my part, I am sure that the day of judgment is just around the corner.”

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Here's the rest of the Martin Luther quote:

"For my part, I am sure that the Day of Judgement is just around the corner. It doesn't matter that we don't know the precise day... perhaps someone else can figure it out. But it is certain that time is now at an end."

Again, no date.

“Edwin Sandys (1519-1588), Archbishop of York and Primate of England . . . says, . . . ‘Let us be assured that this coming of the Lord is near.’”

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The rest of the quote is as follows:

'Now, as we know not the day and time, so let us be assured that this coming of the Lord is near. He is not slack, as we do count slackness. That it is at hand, it may be probably gathered out of the Scriptures in diverse places. The signs mentioned by Christ in the Gospel which should be the foreshewers of this terrible day, are almost all fulfilled.'

William Miller, generally credited with founding the Adventist Church, is quoted as saying: “I am fully convinced that sometime between March 21, 1843, and March 21, 1844, according to the Jewish mode of computation of time, Christ will come.”

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Does it matter that the Jehovah's Witnesses has ties to the Adventists and Millerites? I think so. From Wikipedia:

Charles Taze Russell, fouder of the Jehovah's Witnesses cult]In 1870, at age eighteen, he attended a presentation by Adventist minister Jonas Wendell. Russell later said that, although he had not entirely agreed with Wendell's arguments, the presentation had inspired him with a renewed zeal and belief that the Bible is the word of God....About 1870, Russell and his father established a group with a number of acquaintances to undertake an analytical study of the Bible and the origins of Christian doctrine, creed, and tradition. The group, strongly influenced by the writings of Millerite Adventist ministers George Storrs and George Stetson, who were also frequent attendees, concluded that many of the primary doctrines of the established churches, including the Trinity, hellfire, and inherent immortality of the soul, were not substantiated by the scriptures.

So, the JW website quoted Pope Gregory, Martin Luther, and Archbishop Sandys out of context as an excuse for their failed prophecies in which they not only predicted events but they also gave dates. The meaning changes when you know the context, but they cherry picked what they were going to report.

Finally, the Millerites, who influenced Charles Taze Russell, are famous for having made false prophecies themselves. The debacle was known as "The Great Disappointment" was made by William Miller himself.

The JWs have dealt falsely with their own followers and the world on this and many other things.

it's just me said:

Maybe not in the JW Bible, but in my Bible hell is spelled out very clearly. Do you want more examples? I'll show you the Greek words and what they mean.



My selfish desire to see someone suffer? Listen, lady, Anglicans won't let someone die for lack of a blood transfusion, neither will Catholics, Baptists, maybe not even Mormons. The reality is that you don't even have a good grasp of what "hell" actually is, or who God is. I know that because you don't trust Him, so you made up your own God.



If I hadn't I wouldn't have said it. As it is I have thought about it for several decades, all the way through priestly formation, while I am sitting at home and when I walk along the road, when I lie down and when I get up. I don't think about much else.



So now, Elvira, JW lay person, passes judgment on God's judgement.

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If God created a hell for those who deserve hell, does that mean He created a burial place for the wrong doers? And so, who are the Jurors to send one to 'hell'? Just because God, The Father, The Son IS Judge, just like Court systems on Earth, they usually have Jurors. Wouldn't the Court in Heaven be a little similar? Shouldn't someone have reasonable, rational arguments before arguing?

crazyme said:

If God created a hell for those who deserve hell, does that mean He created a burial place for the wrong doers? And so, who are the Jurors to send one to 'hell'? Just because God, The Father, The Son IS Judge, just like Court systems on Earth, they usually have Jurors. Wouldn't the Court in Heaven be a little similar? Shouldn't someone have reasonable, rational arguments before arguing?

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I do have a reasonable, rational argument, who are you to say otherwise? Why should the Heavenly court resemble an Earthly court? Why are you arguing just to argue?

crazyme said:

If God created a hell for those who deserve hell, does that mean He created a burial place for the wrong doers? And so, who are the Jurors to send one to 'hell'? Just because God, The Father, The Son IS Judge, just like Court systems on Earth, they usually have Jurors. Wouldn't the Court in Heaven be a little similar? Shouldn't someone have reasonable, rational arguments before arguing?

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Juries are needed simply because we can't know all the truth that a majority vote is required. In Heaven all the facts are plain thus technically a jury is not needed.

I'm disappointed that Elvira (or another non-trinitarian believer) didn't speak up in this thread.

it's just me said:

I do have a reasonable, rational argument, who are you to say otherwise? Why should the Heavenly court resemble an Earthly court? Why are you arguing just to argue?

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No, you have no such argument. The idea of torturing people in fire eternally for temporal transgressions is wholly irrational and unreasonable.

Besides the fact that according to the bible, that god is responsible for each and every person that ends up in hell.

Sounds like you don't know the bible very well.

Tanngrisnir said:

The idea of torturing people in fire eternally for temporal transgressions is wholly irrational and unreasonable.

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Who says that they are solely temporal transgressions? This conclusion denies the existence of the spiritual. And under the Christian viewpoint, there is nothing irrational nor unreasonable about it. God created life; If people reject God, they reject life.

Tanngrisnir said:

Besides the fact that according to the bible, that god is responsible for each and every person that ends up in hell.

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That is not what a 'fact' is... And no, the individual chooses by either accepting or rejecting God's saving grace though his son Jesus.

Tanngrisnir said:

Sounds like you don't know the bible very well.

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Inversion fallacy; you're the one who isn't "well versed" in scripture...