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Historical & Scientific Proof of Jesus' Resurrection

blarg said:
why this?

God reveals Himself in many ways. Just not the "absolute proof" that many non believers would like to see. As it states in tthe bible many times, God wants us to believe with faith, & will reward us for that faith in Him.

and again with the bribes
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You surely like the bribe thing don't ya. If that's the case, then anything we get in return ro doing ...... anything per an agreement is considered a bribe then. Wages are our reward for doing the job we agreed to do for our employer. Is that a bribe? I don't consider it one, but if you do then, we do everything bc we expect a positive end result. So, is everything we do considered bribery in some fashion?

When one gets married, don't we do things to be considered worthy so our future spouse will accept us to iive together ...... as a reward to become one as a couple? Is that a bribe?

Thing about God is that He wants us to come to Him in love, of our own free will, or accord. If we choose to honor God, then the end result is eternity in heaven. If we don't then it's not with God. Not sure what that entails, but choosing to either be with an entity that was smart & powerful enough to create a sustaining universe that has lasted almost 14 billion years, & knew His only Son would be sacrificed so we would be considered sinless, as is required to enter heaven, ............ I'll pick heaven & God every time.
 
Logician Man said:
Well thx for the kind words...But you need to remember one thing.Skeptics don't believe the bible,or any other holy text,to be factual.So when theists from any religion post scripture,that really means mothing to us.( no disrespect intended.)..We've all studied the same data.We've just come to different conclusions as to whether or not said data passes the smell test...so to speak.
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I understand completely re skeptics & others. My example was only referencing 'proof' to another believer, not to skeptics. That's probably why we only say it's proof to each other, knowing it's falling on deaf ears otherwise. But still, that is considered evidence, by definition, if the bible helps one believe, or otherwise helps one to understand God's plan & our role in that plan.
 
rextr05 said:
I understand completely re skeptics & others. My example was only referencing 'proof' to another believer, not to skeptics. That's probably why we only say it's proof to each other, knowing it's falling on deaf ears otherwise. But still, that is considered evidence, by definition, if the bible helps one believe, or otherwise helps one to understand God's plan & our role in that plan.
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Yeah...I did a thread here when I first joined entitled Christian vs. Christian....i.e. why 'some' Christians condemn other Christians to hell.. ( fundies,etc condemning Catholics to hell for their beliefs..Of course I don't have a dog in that fight.
 
Logician Man said:
Let me ask you this Rex...In the O.T.,the scripture time and time again refers to your God as loving,fair,and just...Yet ( and this is but one example),your god sent 2 bears to maul 40 plus kids to death,simply because they made fun of a bald man..Does that seem 'fair and just' to you...i.e. Does the punishment fit the 'crime?'....and I know all about how some apologetics will say 'God is the artist,he can do as he dang well pleases with his artistry. That does not add up in my world view.
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Yeah, there's some things that kinda spooks me too. Throughout the OT God emphasizes the way to act/be in very strong ways, such as the bear thing. It hould also be known that the innocent ones that die, such as some children that were killed during the Israelites entering & conquering the Promised Land, are taken care of by God if hey serve God's purpose. We do have to realize that the ancient culture was horrible re the way people treated each other. The bear story emphasizes treating elders with respect ...... at all times. A bit drastic, but it is so shocking that we tend to remember events & why they had taken place.
BTW, most scholars believe that these were not children, but kids in their late teens.

We look at most everything with today's perspective ...... according to whatever culture norms we are used to. Anything that is foreign to our culture is highly suspect. I really don't think we could ever imagine the ancient culture as being anything close to civilized, yet we judge them with today's world view. This is what God had to deal with knowing that if He laid down the law in the beginning of the Exodus, & demanded them to be completely civilized with completely changing the way they had lived for centuries, the people would have rebelled & God would have lost the people. God had to change their way of life slowly.

Just look at slavery. Every culture back then had slaves. If God would have told them not to have slaves, they wouldn't have abided by that & many other things. God changed the way slaves were treated little by little for this reason. & many other things we look at today as being horrendous.
 
rextr05 said:
Yeah, there's some things that kinda spooks me too. Throughout the OT God emphasizes the way to act/be in very strong ways, such as the bear thing. It hould also be known that the innocent ones that die, such as some children that were killed during the Israelites entering & conquering the Promised Land, are taken care of by God if hey serve God's purpose. We do have to realize that the ancient culture was horrible re the way people treated each other. The bear story emphasizes treating elders with respect ...... at all times. A bit drastic, but it is so shocking that we tend to remember events & why they had taken place.
BTW, most scholars believe that these were not children, but kids in their late teens.

We look at most everything with today's perspective ...... according to whatever culture norms we are used to. Anything that is foreign to our culture is highly suspect. I really don't think we could ever imagine the ancient culture as being anything close to civilized, yet we judge them with today's world view. This is what God had to deal with knowing that if He laid down the law in the beginning of the Exodus, & demanded them to be completely civilized with completely changing the way they had lived for centuries, the people would have rebelled & God would have lost the people. God had to change their way of life slowly.

Just look at slavery. Every culture back then had slaves. If God would have told them not to have slaves, they wouldn't have abided by that & many other things. God changed the way slaves were treated little by little for this reason. & many other things we look at today as being horrendous.
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But the thing is Rex,it's not about the culture of that era...it's a god that I was taught never changes,and said god was the mastermind of all of the close to 30 million killed by your god in the O.T. ( when you toss in those killed by the alleged Great Flood....Don't blame the culture of the people of the era...but what you state about that era is the main reason I concluded mere mortals created/concocted god(s) as opposed to vice versa.
 
rextr05 said:
You surely like the bribe thing don't ya. If that's the case, then anything we get in return ro doing ...... anything per an agreement is considered a bribe then. Wages are our reward for doing the job we agreed to do for our employer. Is that a bribe? I don't consider it one, but if you do then, we do everything bc we expect a positive end result. So, is everything we do considered bribery in some fashion?

When one gets married, don't we do things to be considered worthy so our future spouse will accept us to iive together ...... as a reward to become one as a couple? Is that a bribe?

Thing about God is that He wants us to come to Him in love, of our own free will, or accord. If we choose to honor God, then the end result is eternity in heaven. If we don't then it's not with God. Not sure what that entails, but choosing to either be with an entity that was smart & powerful enough to create a sustaining universe that has lasted almost 14 billion years, & knew His only Son would be sacrificed so we would be considered sinless, as is required to enter heaven, ............ I'll pick heaven & God every time.
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bribes and threats you love the god do what it wants or you suffer or die and no god told nay one this this is other men telling us and no god has confirmed or denied it

https://www.biblestudytools.com/topical-verses/hell-bible-verses/

then there's the problem of needing a savior the idea makes no sense for an omnipotent being no one can undo your actions and nothing you have done is deserving of everlasting punishment there's nothing to be saved from if you think your past actions weer bad all you can do is reject them now that you believe they are wrong
 
blarg said:
bribes and threats you love the god do what it wants or you suffer or die and no god told nay one this this is other men telling us and no god has confirmed or denied it

https://www.biblestudytools.com/topical-verses/hell-bible-verses/

then there's the problem of needing a savior the idea makes no sense for an omnipotent being no one can undo your actions and nothing you have done is deserving of everlasting punishment there's nothing to be saved from if you think your past actions weer bad all you can do is reject them now that you believe they are wrong
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Are you perfect? do you ever make mistakes?
 
rextr05 said:
me: Anyone that tells you that they know what is in store for us after death other than a presence or absence of God in the afterlife, is only speculating or lying to you.

me: Since God created ..... everything, He pretty much can make the rules can't he? But as far as tormented & dying ..... Don't we as humans make that choice with our daily lives with how we interact with each other & the world? Why blame God for our own choices that we make of our own accord?

me: Please know the distinction between the old & new Covenant. We are to live by what Jesus has told us ..... Love God & your neighbor. The OT 600 or so laws have been fulfilled by Jesus, giving us a new direction that is void of the 600 OT laws ..... altho those laws explain much re ancient culture.
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if god dose whatever it pleases because it can then it has no superior morality if it defines good an evil for everyone else then those words are empty of meaning other then being arbitrary lists

if it created death and the consequences of are actions then it bears some responsibility for them i cant choose to be immortal for example

then there's the problem that an omnipotent being can know what we will do before we do it and we cant do otherwise then what it know which would men we don't actually have free will any unvere where that's posible god or not would be the same even if the god chose not to look the ability to know in advance means we cant actually choose


that you believe only in the rule of the new testament doesn't address my concern that you have an absolute faith based moral authority or that you might use it to shape the lives of others against their will


i dont know that someone who says they know what happens after death is lying for all i know a god could actually reveal that to any one i just know its never spoken to me about anything or to any one as far as i know and the bible speaks on the matter some what
 
Logician Man said:
Yeah...I did a thread here when I first joined entitled Christian vs. Christian....i.e. why 'some' Christians condemn other Christians to hell.. ( fundies,etc condemning Catholics to hell for their beliefs..Of course I don't have a dog in that fight.
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I consider debating a chance to learn more about the subject matter, & also to get the opposition to think about it in a different way regardless if they change their mind or not.

Condemning/judging others in a negative light is something Jesus told us never to do.
 
rextr05 said:
I consider debating a chance to learn more about the subject matter, & also to get the opposition to think about it in a different way regardless if they change their mind or not.

Condemning/judging others in a negative light is something Jesus told us never to do.
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agreed..I've rarely seen people in debate forums,with very few exceptions,convince those of different world views to change said world views.My personal world views were formed by in depth studies of studying holy texts ( primarily the bible since that is the religion I was first exposed to in my youth.)..From the many yrs.of debating religion,many,if most skeptics became non-theists after they got older and were able to analyze the data from a more critical thinking aspect,as opposed to their early years.Personally,I would never have taken my kids to any religious institution before they had acquired enough secular education to analyze the data objectively...i.e.a 6 yr old child is not mentally developed enough to make a rational decision regarding religious matters.This would apply to any/all belief systems,not just the Christian belief system.
 
Logician Man said:
But the thing is Rex,it's not about the culture of that era...it's a god that I was taught never changes,and said god was the mastermind of all of the close to 30 million killed by your god in the O.T. ( when you toss in those killed by the alleged Great Flood....Don't blame the culture of the people of the era...but what you state about that era is the main reason I concluded mere mortals created/concocted god(s) as opposed to vice versa.[/QUOT




I think ancient man had to mature, & had many growing pains. You have to remember that God gave man an idyllic place to live, & they chose to disobey the only command they were given. From that point on, we had to live w/in the climate we created w/out the protection God planned to give us re The Garden. The very ancient people now had to live with the knowledge of sin, & many chose to live that way. People create the culture they live in, not the other way around, altho the people do have to live w/in the culture they reside. If they choose not to, they can live elsewhere. Maybe that's what Noah had done.

W/out absolute proof, I could almost see why you feel that way. Thing is, the bible is unlike other stories of gods, especially when it comes to Jesus.
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rextr05 said:
Logician Man said:
But the thing is Rex,it's not about the culture of that era...it's a god that I was taught never changes,and said god was the mastermind of all of the close to 30 million killed by your god in the O.T. ( when you toss in those killed by the alleged Great Flood....Don't blame the culture of the people of the era...but what you state about that era is the main reason I concluded mere mortals created/concocted god(s) as opposed to vice versa.[/QUOT




I think ancient man had to mature, & had many growing pains. You have to remember that God gave man an idyllic place to live, & they chose to disobey the only command they were given. From that point on, we had to live w/in the climate we created w/out the protection God planned to give us re The Garden. The very ancient people now had to live with the knowledge of sin, & many chose to live that way. People create the culture they live in, not the other way around, altho the people do have to live w/in the culture they reside. If they choose not to, they can live elsewhere. Maybe that's what Noah had done.

W/out absolute proof, I could almost see why you feel that way. Thing is, the bible is unlike other stories of gods, especially when it comes to Jesus.
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I'm not seeing what that has to do with my post which states,regardless of the era...those atrocious acts were God's directive..not the people of the era per biblical scripture..Addressing your 2nd point,of course people from other belief systems will believe their holy texts to hold more water than other's holy texts for obvious reasons.Just because one text is different than the other doesn't make one any more credible than the other..at least from each person's personal world view.
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blarg said:
bribes and threats you love the god do what it wants or you suffer or die and no god told nay one this this is other men telling us and no god has confirmed or denied it

https://www.biblestudytools.com/topical-verses/hell-bible-verses/

then there's the problem of needing a savior the idea makes no sense for an omnipotent being no one can undo your actions and nothing you have done is deserving of everlasting punishment there's nothing to be saved from if you think your past actions weer bad all you can do is reject them now that you believe they are wrong
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I just experienced the same thing you had the other day. I answered 2 of your comments, & they werre wiped out due to 2 different problems. I now have too continue my tile backsplash which I started yesterday. I had to rent a large wet saw bc mine wouldn't cut the glass tiles w/out chipping them, & it's $50/day & I'm about 1/2 done ....... so, off to the kitchen. I'll answrr you later or tomorrow depending on the tile status. Thanx for your patience.
 
blarg said:
nope and i do what of it?
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Because if you're not, you are most certainly in need of a Savior...that is if you wanna continue living...if not, then don't worry about it...

"That is why, just as through one man sin entered into the world and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because they had all sinned" Romans 5:12

"For the wages sin pays is death, but the gift God gives is everlasting life by Christ Jesus our Lord." Romans 6:23
 
Just a few factoids...

“If fame is having a book written about you, . . . Jesus Christ remains the most famous figure in the modern world,” says the British newspaper The Guardian. Research on the books in the Library of Congress, in Washington, D.C., revealed 17,239 books about Jesus. That was almost twice as many as those written about William Shakespeare, who occupied second place with 9,801 books. Vladimir Lenin came in third with 4,492, followed by Abraham Lincoln, who had 4,378 books written about him, and Napoléon I, with 4,007. Mary, the mother of Jesus, was in seventh place, with 3,595 books, and was the only woman in the top 30. Joan of Arc, the next closest woman, had 545 books written about her. As for composers, Richard Wagner led the list, followed by Mozart, Beethoven, and Bach. Picasso heads the list of painters, ahead of Leonardo da Vinci and Michelangelo. However, Leonardo heads the list of scientists and inventors, beating Charles Darwin, Albert Einstein, and Galileo Galilei. “There is no living person in the top 30,” says The Guardian.

https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/102000331?q=joan+of+arc&p=par
 
blarg said:
seems like it should be possible for your god to prove though


me: Possible, but since He's already done that in ancient times & it didn't prove to do any good. But if you were God, smart & powerful enough to create a sustaining universe for almost 14 billion years, given mankind the earth & everything in it ....... would you really think you have to keep proving yourself? Especially with so many people hating & disrespecting you over the years.



still dont get why your god would want people to have faith in it over just knowing exits and what it did said and wanted in relation to all of us



me: Do you want your family to keep asking for proof of your love & everything you do, or do you want them to trust in your past decisions & have faith that you'll continue doing good? Probably same with God.




you would not need to keep asking for its back soty in that case any way

i don't want you to have to believe i exist because of stories passed down to you when belief is encouraged with bribes and doubt is discouraged with threats nether of which i can actually be shown as the source of

i don't want any one to be able to make up stories about me to you that you cannot test at all while giving you no way to see what is or is not so



me: Either people love God or they don't. One disrespects others, in this case God, bc of the wrong reasons. Maybe they heard false versionss of the bible, had a bad experience in a church, were brought up to not like God, etc.
The story of God is in the bible. It's not passed down as it was in ancient times. Thing is, most people read & do not study what they read. There is a reason for metaphors, allegories, parables & hard to understand verses in the bible. Matthew 13 explains it very well re why Jesus spoke in parables. Read it & you'll see ..... it's not long.



if you don't want people to dong everything about you all the time you should not make everything about you subject to doubt or faith



me: When people love each other, they trust them. they'll believe you w/out asking for proof. People are going to talk no matter what. Go back to the part where I referred to God being all powerful. Why should He care to have to keep proving Himself when He's ot everything there can be already. When one is that mighty you ask to be trusted bc all He's ever done is tell us how to live the best for our own good.



and an omnipotent god could effortlessly answer any amount of questions about it so no reasons that should bother it

so revealing itself would reduce doubt maybe to much pele could very well truds a god more then they should but if you believe one is perfectly just any way no matter what you already do so no major change their

i can only conclude that knowledge would reduce doubt and faith while informing every one and stopping all lies and misinformation about god


me: It's all in the bible ....... people that have doubts can go to God & ask Him to reveal Himself & he'll do it. That request must be in earnest tho bc God isn't to be played with ..... especially since He knows your thoughts.



but instead if your all powerful and good god exists it has stayed silent while people who believed in it committed atrocities in its name while probably believing that they weer doing its will and so doing good



me: God hasn't stayed silent. He's told everyone how to have a relationship with Him.


i don't actually know of any miraculous things done by god for any one all i have are stories not like all humans weer thrown together on a super big world at once with world wide video records though im not sure why that would have been impossible with god
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me: the miracles are chronicled in the bible. Prayers are another way that God shows Himself & I guess they could also be considered miracles when they are answered.
 
blarg said:
bribes and threats you love the god do what it wants or you suffer or die and no god told nay one this this is other men telling us and no god has confirmed or denied it

https://www.biblestudytools.com/topical-verses/hell-bible-verses/

then there's the problem of needing a savior the idea makes no sense for an omnipotent being no one can undo your actions and nothing you have done is deserving of everlasting punishment there's nothing to be saved from if you think your past actions weer bad all you can do is reject them now that you believe they are wrong
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me: Revelations is full of metaphors, allegories & hidden messages. It doesn't have to be literal re sulfur & fire. Those 2 things exemplify a horrible death & pain. Much of the bible tells us what sin begets us. Here, sin begets probably the worst thing the author could thinkm of t that time ..... a non consuming fire people would endure if they didn't change their ways of sin.

Atoning for ones sins (anything considered bad) involved sacrificing something as a way to remember not to do it again bc one has suffered the loss of the best of their livestock or grain as a consequence (sacrifice) for sin in the ancient times.

I don't profess to understand the forgiveness of sins by God. If I were God, I think I'd be smiting many people that do bad things ..... but I'm not God & I do not have perfect justice as He can only know that.
 
rextr05 said:
I just experienced the same thing you had the other day. I answered 2 of your comments, & they werre wiped out due to 2 different problems. I now have too continue my tile backsplash which I started yesterday. I had to rent a large wet saw bc mine wouldn't cut the glass tiles w/out chipping them, & it's $50/day & I'm about 1/2 done ....... so, off to the kitchen. I'll answrr you later or tomorrow depending on the tile status. Thanx for your patience.
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sorry to hear that when evers fine
 
Elvira said:
Because if you're not, you are most certainly in need of a Savior...that is if you wanna continue living...if not, then don't worry about it...

"That is why, just as through one man sin entered into the world and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because they had all sinned" Romans 5:12

"For the wages sin pays is death, but the gift God gives is everlasting life by Christ Jesus our Lord." Romans 6:23
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why would i be in need of a savior to continue living if a benevolent all powerful god exists?
 
rextr05 said:
me: the miracles are chronicled in the bible. Prayers are another way that God shows Himself & I guess they could also be considered miracles when they are answered.
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sorry could you just re post the new stuff i think we got you answering me answering you all in one quote
 
rextr05 said:
me: Revelations is full of metaphors, allegories & hidden messages. It doesn't have to be literal re sulfur & fire. Those 2 things exemplify a horrible death & pain. Much of the bible tells us what sin begets us. Here, sin begets probably the worst thing the author could thinkm of t that time ..... a non consuming fire people would endure if they didn't change their ways of sin.

Atoning for ones sins (anything considered bad) involved sacrificing something as a way to remember not to do it again bc one has suffered the loss of the best of their livestock or grain as a consequence (sacrifice) for sin in the ancient times.

I don't profess to understand the forgiveness of sins by God. If I were God, I think I'd be smiting many people that do bad things ..... but I'm not God & I do not have perfect justice as He can only know that.
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not sure why son would need atonement if sin is something that makes you feel and then it seems you only need to abdon that kind of action you would remember not to do it because you did not like the results of it

if you were god why would you attack people over things that hurt themselves

if they weer hurting others why would you give people the power to hurt others in the 1st place or wait till long after the harm was done to smite any one ?
 
Logician Man said:
agreed..I've rarely seen people in debate forums,with very few exceptions,convince those of different world views to change said world views.My personal world views were formed by in depth studies of studying holy texts ( primarily the bible since that is the religion I was first exposed to in my youth.)..From the many yrs.of debating religion,many,if most skeptics became non-theists after they got older and were able to analyze the data from a more critical thinking aspect,as opposed to their early years.Personally,I would never have taken my kids to any religious institution before they had acquired enough secular education to analyze the data objectively...i.e.a 6 yr old child is not mentally developed enough to make a rational decision regarding religious matters.This would apply to any/all belief systems,not just the Christian belief system.
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I've often thought about the "analyzing data & critical thinking" thing re God. Geez, I used to write SOP's for a huge manufacturing entity, & that's nothing but critical thinking ..... throwing away all the unnecessary stuff to only keep what is absolutely critical for something to be done. I've often wondered why people say that believing in God & critical thinking are on opposite poles. How about explaining it to me ...... cliff notes version, if there is one.

I have always looked at evidence as anything that we experience & use it to form our personal constitution. Be it hard or soft evidence. I've coached wrestling & baseball for many years & have always worked more on the athlete believing in me ..... & believing in my coaching will follow. Most of the time, my baseball coaching methods conflicted with their past coaches & always faced some reluctance ...... until they found out what I was asking of them worked. Sometimes it had taken 1/2 of a season, but I had to work on them having faith in what I was telling them.

I guess working with them so many years re having students & their parents having faith in me has worn off on my belief system that evidence doesn't necessarily require hard (court type) proof.

Re young kids. When I moved to a new state in the early 2000's, I started coaching baseball & wrestling for the local high school. The wrestling team had mostly, all some years, 9th graders that have never wrestled b4. I was used to kids wrestling from kindergarten, as both of my sons. Wrestling here could never match up with the northern schools & one reason is experience. So, that year I started a youth program from kindergarten thru 8th grade. People thought I was crazy. But in a few years, the high school team started winning the conference every year.

I bring this up, bc of your reluctance of exposing your kids b4 they could objectively "reason" for themselves. I think exposing kids at a young age to different things give them better choices bc they are exposed to more things. When kids get older, they use past experiences to make qualified choices as they progress. I don't buy the "indoctrination" thing many people say about religion. I'm sure it still happens with some fringe denominations, but what I've seen only exposes kids to the bible & God. It doesn't stress the fire & brimstone as some think.

I was brought up Catholic, & went to the 1st 9 grades of parochial school. I got pretty bored & was interested with catechism & the like. It didn't make sense that it was a mortal sin to eat meat on Friday & some of the other mandates like babies that weren't baptized went to 'Limbo' if they died early on. I actually felt bad for babies that weren't Cathoic bc of that. Many years later, & I mean many, I started reading the bible & found that much of what I was taught early on wasn't in the bible. & even the Catholic rules changed re some things like Friday meat, & the Limbo thing. I wondered how something that was considered so serious can be changed .......... just like that.
 
rextr05 said:
I've often thought about the "analyzing data & critical thinking" thing re God. Geez, I used to write SOP's for a huge manufacturing entity, & that's nothing but critical thinking ..... throwing away all the unnecessary stuff to only keep what is absolutely critical for something to be done. I've often wondered why people say that believing in God & critical thinking are on opposite poles. How about explaining it to me ...... cliff notes version, if there is one.

I have always looked at evidence as anything that we experience & use it to form our personal constitution. Be it hard or soft evidence. I've coached wrestling & baseball for many years & have always worked more on the athlete believing in me ..... & believing in my coaching will follow. Most of the time, my baseball coaching methods conflicted with their past coaches & always faced some reluctance ...... until they found out what I was asking of them worked. Sometimes it had taken 1/2 of a season, but I had to work on them having faith in what I was telling them.

I guess working with them so many years re having students & their parents having faith in me has worn off on my belief system that evidence doesn't necessarily require hard (court type) proof.

Re young kids. When I moved to a new state in the early 2000's, I started coaching baseball & wrestling for the local high school. The wrestling team had mostly, all some years, 9th graders that have never wrestled b4. I was used to kids wrestling from kindergarten, as both of my sons. Wrestling here could never match up with the northern schools & one reason is experience. So, that year I started a youth program from kindergarten thru 8th grade. People thought I was crazy. But in a few years, the high school team started winning the conference every year.

I bring this up, bc of your reluctance of exposing your kids b4 they could objectively "reason" for themselves. I think exposing kids at a young age to different things give them better choices bc they are exposed to more things. When kids get older, they use past experiences to make qualified choices as they progress. I don't buy the "indoctrination" thing many people say about religion. I'm sure it still happens with some fringe denominations, but what I've seen only exposes kids to the bible & God. It doesn't stress the fire & brimstone as some think.

I was brought up Catholic, & went to the 1st 9 grades of parochial school. I got pretty bored & was interested with catechism & the like. It didn't make sense that it was a mortal sin to eat meat on Friday & some of the other mandates like babies that weren't baptized went to 'Limbo' if they died early on. I actually felt bad for babies that weren't Cathoic bc of that. Many years later, & I mean many, I started reading the bible & found that much of what I was taught early on wasn't in the bible. & even the Catholic rules changed re some things like Friday meat, & the Limbo thing. I wondered how something that was considered so serious can be changed .......... just like that.
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seems we have another thing in common. I started competing athletically in the 5th grade ( track and field only at that time.Trained kids how to box as recently as 3 yrs ago....A little more about me and my upbringing..My mom was Southern Baptist,Dad,Southern Methodist,his dad a Deacon at/Meth church and a KKK member.Dad's dad was always pressuring my dad to attend the Meth.more as we mostly attended Baptist..They fought like cats and dogs,and at the age of 11 we switched to Lutheran.I attended Catechism for 2 yrs...Got booted out of my own confirmation for giving 'my answers' to the Pastor and Church elders,as opposed to giving the 'rubber stamp answers they were expecting....to be continued.
 
Logician Man said:
rextr05 said:
I'm not seeing what that has to do with my post which states,regardless of the era...those atrocious acts were God's directive..not the people of the era per biblical scripture..Addressing your 2nd point,of course people from other belief systems will believe their holy texts to hold more water than other's holy texts for obvious reasons.Just because one text is different than the other doesn't make one any more credible than the other..at least from each person's personal world view.
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God wanted His chosen people to feel ..... special & for other cultures they were around too see that they were indeed special & had different rules bc they had an inside track to God so-to-speak. If you read the bible, in many cases other people feared doing bad things to the Israelites bc they won ALL of their early battles ..... even when the odds were against them in a large way. God not only wanted others to see that believing in Him has huge benefits, & fighting against Him has huge disadvantages.

God also knew that the Israelites were easily led astray by women (that surely hasn't changed in all these years haha) who would have them worship other gods. So, instead of having those women lead them astray, God told them to kill entire towns. Sometimes livestock included. This showed His chosen people & future readers, that to live an evil free life, evil in its entirety had to be eliminated ...... entirely. It's eally a metaphor, but hopefully you get my drift.


Re ancient holy texts, that's one of the reasons many battles were fought .... my god is better than your god thing. But much of the ancient bible was passed down by certain assigned people that were tasked with mesmerizing it to pass it down to the next generation, & on & on.
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