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How Did Your Personal Relationship With God Come About?
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Who exactly were they praying to?
Did they ever repent of their sins and ask Jesus to forgive them and save them?
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You ready for Hitler, Pol Pot, Charles Manson, and Stalin in heaven? Do you expect people like them to ever get better, or would they corrupt heaven?
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I don't know if this counts because it relates to my relationship with my synagogue. However, Judaism is a fusion of a culture, nationality and religion some I'm posting it.
January 5, 1973 was a big day for me, and an even bigger XYS Temple (name of institution not disclosed) memory. It was the day my father died, and the day I re-engaged with XYS Temple and Judaism. The day started with a phone call at 12:24 a.m. from New Rochelle Hospital informing me and my mother that Jerry, my father, had died. At 3:00 p.m. or so Rabbi Stern was in our living room. He was educating us on funeral rituals. We were helping to write the eulogy.
But let me back up more than two and one half years, to May 2, 1970. I was the first Bar Mitzvah in what’s now the Sifrya (sp). Two days later, I cleaned out my Hebrew School desk, never, I thought, to return. The 1960’s demonization of organized religion played a role. The lack of classroom discipline, complete with spitballs, made the decision easy.
The comeback was almost entirely the initiative of Rabbi S (name omitted), combined with prodding by a new friend in High School that had the maturity to appreciate the religion. The Rabbi carefully explained the rationale of Jewish death rituals, and engaged my participation in the drafting of the eulogy. I frankly learned more about Judaism during that 30 to 60 minutes than I learned in my last year of Hebrew school.
I don't expect they will be there...but then again, I'm not gonna be there either...I have the hope of living right here on a paradise earth, as God originally purposed for man...
"9. For evil men will be done away with,
But those hoping in Jehovah will possess the earth.
10 Just a little while longer, and the wicked will be no more;
You will look at where they were,
And they will not be there.
11 But the meek will possess the earth,
And they will find exquisite delight in the abundance of peace.
29. The righteous will possess the earth,
And they will live forever on it." Psalm 37:9-11;29
As for Hitler and those like him, they will merely be out of existence, like they were before they were ever born...
"The soul that is sinning—it itself will die." Eze. 18:4
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Is hell just a figure of speech (although there are verses in the Bible that explicitly describe it, consistently, with burning)?
If we believe Heaven is real (and not a figure of speech), hell's got to be real.
https://www.gotquestions.org/hell-real-eternal.html
If we believe Heaven is real (and not a figure of speech), hell's got to be real.
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If we believe Heaven is real (and not a figure of speech), we have to believe hell is as real.
Hell is the other side of the coin.
Eternal torment of burning in hell, is too terrifying to imagine.....thus, we surmise such cruelty can only come from a cruel God. But since God isn't cruel, therefore hell isn't real.
Let's remember that God has given us a choice, and He laid out the consequences for our choices.
What we can rely on is God's promise and mercy, to those who come to Him.
There is only One Way to be saved.
As personal relationships with God had shown - millions of testimonies all over the world, give evidence for it - God has proven millions and millions of times, He is merciful and faithful.
Hell is the other side of the coin.
Eternal torment of burning in hell, is too terrifying to imagine.....thus, we surmise such cruelty can only come from a cruel God. But since God isn't cruel, therefore hell isn't real.
Let's remember that God has given us a choice, and He laid out the consequences for our choices.
What we can rely on is God's promise and mercy, to those who come to Him.
There is only One Way to be saved.
As personal relationships with God had shown - millions of testimonies all over the world, give evidence for it - God has proven millions and millions of times, He is merciful and faithful.
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Heaven is where God is. To be in His presence, is heaven. To be far from God is pure desolation.
If He said He'll dwell with man in a new earth....then it must be.
Revelations 21
21 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me,
Write: for these words are true and faithful.
6 And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.
7 He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.
8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
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Why would God describe such a frightful imagery for those who'd simply, "cease to exist?"
I've been musing......
.......if God had given such frightful description (to burn forever), along with explicit terms to depict pain and suffering ("gnashing of teeth," comes to mind), for those who'll be sent to hell - surely He must have His own reason for doing so?
Surely, He has His purpose.....even if it's just to scare mankind enough to take Him seriously?
Wouldn't "downplaying" what's been clearly described as hell by God, be like diffusing what He's aiming to do?
It's kinda like a teacher warning his students, "Be prepared for the exam or you'll fail this semester".....
........and then someone tells them, "No, he won't fail you. I know this teacher - he's really nice."
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I understand.
But let's take the point I'm trying to make with the Old Testament. Wouldn't the analogy I made be said of God's warning to the Jews in ancient time? Like this one:
Deut 11
13 "So then, obey the commands that I have given you today; love the Lord your God and serve him with all your heart. 14 If you do, he will send rain on your land when it is needed, in the autumn and in the spring, so that there will be grain, wine, and olive oil for you, 15 and grass for your livestock. You will have all the food you want. 16 Do not let yourselves be led away from the Lord to worship and serve other gods. 17 If you do, the Lord will become angry with you. He will hold back the rain, and your ground will become too dry for crops to grow. Then you will soon die there, even though it is a good land that he is giving you.
26 "Today I am giving you the choice between a blessing and a curse- 27 a blessing, if you obey the commands of the Lord your God that I am giving you today; 28 but a curse, if you disobey these commands and turn away to worship other gods that you have never worshiped before.
Would've someone come up and said....."God loves His chosen people. He is a merciful God, so what Moses is describing could not be exactly true."
Diffusing the seriousness of the message of God (the impact that He wanted to achieve) - I gave the teacher analogy. It must be so frustrating for the teacher!
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My questions about hellfire were answered long ago, directly from the scriptures...the teaching is unreasonable and unjust...it is a harmful teaching that goes against everything God stands for...love, justice, and mercy...
Have you ever seen someone tortured? Deliberate torture is sickening and abhorrent...anyone who thinks eternal torture is inflicted by God truly does not know God...the Bible says God is love...1 John 4:8...love is merciful and shows pity...a loving father may punish his children, but he would never torture them...how much more so is that true of our Heavenly Father?
Logic rebels against it...human nature is repelled by it...more importantly, God’s Word does not say that such a place as a burning hell exists...when a person dies, “he goes back to his ground; in that day his thoughts do perish.” Psalm 146:4...
In order to be tormented, an individual has to be conscious...are the dead conscious? No,the Bible says...
“The living are conscious that they will die; but as for the dead, they are conscious of nothing at all, neither do they anymore have wages, because the remembrance of them has been forgotten”...Ecclesiastes 9:5...
It is impossible for the dead, “conscious of nothing at all,” to experience the agonies of hellfire...
The punishment for sin is death...the Bible gives the straightforward answer...“The wages sin pays is death”...Romans 6:23...life is a gift from God...when we sin we no longer deserve that gift, and we die...
Faithful Job knew that he would go to the grave/hell or Sheol when he died but his prayer to God was...
“O that in Sheol you would conceal me, that you would keep me secret until your anger turns back, that you would set a time limit for me and remember me! If an able-bodied man dies can he live again? You will call, and I myself shall answer you.”...Job 14:13-15
Job had the hope of the resurrection even way back then...Job believed that if he was faithful until death, he would be remembered by God and resurrected....John 5:28,29...
Have you ever seen someone tortured? Deliberate torture is sickening and abhorrent...anyone who thinks eternal torture is inflicted by God truly does not know God...the Bible says God is love...1 John 4:8...love is merciful and shows pity...a loving father may punish his children, but he would never torture them...how much more so is that true of our Heavenly Father?
Logic rebels against it...human nature is repelled by it...more importantly, God’s Word does not say that such a place as a burning hell exists...when a person dies, “he goes back to his ground; in that day his thoughts do perish.” Psalm 146:4...
In order to be tormented, an individual has to be conscious...are the dead conscious? No,the Bible says...
“The living are conscious that they will die; but as for the dead, they are conscious of nothing at all, neither do they anymore have wages, because the remembrance of them has been forgotten”...Ecclesiastes 9:5...
It is impossible for the dead, “conscious of nothing at all,” to experience the agonies of hellfire...
The punishment for sin is death...the Bible gives the straightforward answer...“The wages sin pays is death”...Romans 6:23...life is a gift from God...when we sin we no longer deserve that gift, and we die...
Faithful Job knew that he would go to the grave/hell or Sheol when he died but his prayer to God was...
“O that in Sheol you would conceal me, that you would keep me secret until your anger turns back, that you would set a time limit for me and remember me! If an able-bodied man dies can he live again? You will call, and I myself shall answer you.”...Job 14:13-15
Job had the hope of the resurrection even way back then...Job believed that if he was faithful until death, he would be remembered by God and resurrected....John 5:28,29...
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Was John lying when he wrote Rev 21?
Was Matthew lying?
Matthew 25
41 “Then He will also say to those on the left hand, ‘Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:
Mark?
Mark 9
45 And if your foot causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life lame, rather than having two feet, to be cast into hell, into the fire that shall never be quenched— 46 where
‘Their worm does not die,
And the fire is not quenched.’
47 And if your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out. It is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye, rather than having two eyes, to be cast into hell fire— 48 where
‘Their worm does not die
And the fire is not quenched.’
Was Jesus lying too?
Matthew 10
Jesus Teaches the Fear of God
27 “Whatever I tell you in the dark, speak in the light; and what you hear in the ear, preach on the housetops.
28 And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. But rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
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ABSOLUTELY! I thought I had God since I believed in his existence, was calling myself a Christian, and was regularly going to church, but it takes more than just "going through the motions", and it took depression and hard times for me to finally realize that... To add a bit more into my story, I was, at one point during my high school years, told by many people that I was the "most positive person they knew" (and other variants of that). And following college, when I was in my "years of depression", and especially when I started contemplating suicide, I did remember those things that people said all those years ago, and I did wonder to myself "what the heck happened? I used to be such a positive minded person, but now I have no joy or will to live... I wish I could get back to that positive care-free joyful mindset again..." God did answer my prayer, and I acquired A LOT of knowledge (the hard way) during that journey...
I learned that, given the way I was living, I would have been one of those people who thought I was "good with God" but yet received the "I never knew you" reply from him... but thankfully, he has helped me find my way...
Praise the LORD!
No, of course not..hell or the grave and death is also thrown into the lake of fire...Rev. 20:14,15...why throw fire into fire? What is the purpose, if hell is fire, also? Kinda redundant, don't you think? Can hell, the grave, or death be literally burned? No, so the the lake of fire must have a symbolic meaning, it is not literal...the symbolic meaning is eternal destruction...nevermore to exist...
So the soul is not immortal, is it? God can destroy it forever and ever in the lake of fire, as symbolized...hell is the grave...
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Definitely uplifting, and it shows the power and compassion of God. He is always there to comfort us in troubling times and to remind us that we each have an individual calling and purpose to serve during this lifetime.
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Clearly, the part about hell and death being burned is symbolical.....but the message is still consistent with the other verses that describe hell.
Rev 20
10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
Whoever was not found written in the Book of Life, goes to the same place as the devil and the false prophets. Where they'll be tormented day and night, forever. That's what it says.
If one ceases to exist - how can he still be tormented, day and night?
TORMENT
The Greek word ba·sa·niʹzo (and related terms) occurs over 20 times in the Christian Greek Scriptures. It basically meant “test by the proving stone [baʹsa·nos]” and, by extension, “examine or question by applying torture.” Lexicographers point out that in the Christian Greek Scriptures it is used with the sense of ‘vexing with grievous pains; being harassed, distressed.’—Mt 8:29; Lu 8:28; Re 12:2.
The Bible used ba·sa·niʹzo in a number of instances. For example, a manservant afflicted with paralysis was “terribly tormented” (NW) or “racked with pain” (NE) by it. (Mt 8:6; compare 4:24.) Also, Lot “used to torment his soul” (Ro) or “was vexed” (Mo, RS) by the lawless deeds of the people of Sodom. (2Pe 2:8) The word is even used in regard to the difficult progress of a boat.—Mt 14:24; Mr 6:48.
The Greek noun ba·sa·ni·stesʹ occurring at Matthew 18:34 is rendered “jailers” in some translations (AT, Fn, NW; compare Mt 18:30) and “tormentors” or “torturers” in others. (AS, KJ, JB) Torture was sometimes used in prisons to obtain information (compare Ac 22:24, 29, which shows that this was done, although ba·sa·niʹzo is not used here), so ba·sa·ni·stesʹ came to be applied to jailers. Regarding its use at Matthew 18:34, The International Standard Bible Encyclopaedia observed: “Probably the imprisonment itself was regarded as ‘torment’ (as it doubtless was), and the ‘tormentors’ need mean nothing more than jailers.” (Edited by J. Orr, 1960, Vol. V, p. 2999) Thus, the mentioning in Revelation 20:10 of ones who will be “tormented day and night forever and ever” evidently indicates that they will be in a condition of restraint. That a condition of restraint can be spoken of as “torment” is indicated by the parallel accounts at Matthew 8:29 and Luke 8:31.—See LAKE OF FIRE.
Some commentators have pointed to Biblical instances of the word “torment” to support the teaching of eternal suffering in fire. However, as just indicated, there is Scriptural reason to believe that Revelation 20:10 does not have that sense. In fact, verse 14 shows that “the lake of fire” in which the torment occurs, actually means “the second death.” And though Jesus spoke of a certain rich man as “existing in torments” (Lu 16:23, 28), as the article LAZARUS (No. 2) shows, Jesus was not describing the literal experience of a real person but, rather, was setting forth an illustration. Revelation provides a number of other instances where “torment” clearly has an illustrative or symbolic sense, as is evident from context.—Re 9:5; 11:10; 18:7, 10.
https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1200004454?q=torment&p=par
In the Scriptures fiery torment is associated with destruction and death. For example, in the Greek Septuagint translation of the Hebrew Scriptures the word for torment (baʹsa·nos) is several times used with reference to punishment by death. (Eze 3:20; 32:24, 30) Similarly, concerning Babylon the Great, the book of Revelation says, “the kings of the earth . . . will weep and beat themselves in grief over her, when they look at the smoke from the burning of her, while they stand at a distance because of their fear of her torment [Gr., ba·sa·ni·smouʹ].” (Re 18:9, 10) As to the meaning of the torment, an angel later explains: “Thus with a swift pitch will Babylon the great city be hurled down, and she will never be found again.” (Re 18:21) So, fiery torment here is parallel with destruction, and in the case of Babylon the Great, it is everlasting destruction.—Compare Re 17:16; 18:8, 15-17, 19.
Therefore, those who are ‘tormented forever’ (from Gr., ba·sa·niʹzo) in the lake of fire undergo “second death” from which there is no resurrection. The related Greek word ba·sa·ni·stesʹ is translated ‘jailer’ in Matthew 18:34. (RS, NW, ED; compare vs 30.) Thus those hurled into the lake of fire will be held under restraint, or “jailed,” in death throughout eternity.
https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1200002669?q=torment&p=par
The Greek word ba·sa·niʹzo (and related terms) occurs over 20 times in the Christian Greek Scriptures. It basically meant “test by the proving stone [baʹsa·nos]” and, by extension, “examine or question by applying torture.” Lexicographers point out that in the Christian Greek Scriptures it is used with the sense of ‘vexing with grievous pains; being harassed, distressed.’—Mt 8:29; Lu 8:28; Re 12:2.
The Bible used ba·sa·niʹzo in a number of instances. For example, a manservant afflicted with paralysis was “terribly tormented” (NW) or “racked with pain” (NE) by it. (Mt 8:6; compare 4:24.) Also, Lot “used to torment his soul” (Ro) or “was vexed” (Mo, RS) by the lawless deeds of the people of Sodom. (2Pe 2:8) The word is even used in regard to the difficult progress of a boat.—Mt 14:24; Mr 6:48.
The Greek noun ba·sa·ni·stesʹ occurring at Matthew 18:34 is rendered “jailers” in some translations (AT, Fn, NW; compare Mt 18:30) and “tormentors” or “torturers” in others. (AS, KJ, JB) Torture was sometimes used in prisons to obtain information (compare Ac 22:24, 29, which shows that this was done, although ba·sa·niʹzo is not used here), so ba·sa·ni·stesʹ came to be applied to jailers. Regarding its use at Matthew 18:34, The International Standard Bible Encyclopaedia observed: “Probably the imprisonment itself was regarded as ‘torment’ (as it doubtless was), and the ‘tormentors’ need mean nothing more than jailers.” (Edited by J. Orr, 1960, Vol. V, p. 2999) Thus, the mentioning in Revelation 20:10 of ones who will be “tormented day and night forever and ever” evidently indicates that they will be in a condition of restraint. That a condition of restraint can be spoken of as “torment” is indicated by the parallel accounts at Matthew 8:29 and Luke 8:31.—See LAKE OF FIRE.
Some commentators have pointed to Biblical instances of the word “torment” to support the teaching of eternal suffering in fire. However, as just indicated, there is Scriptural reason to believe that Revelation 20:10 does not have that sense. In fact, verse 14 shows that “the lake of fire” in which the torment occurs, actually means “the second death.” And though Jesus spoke of a certain rich man as “existing in torments” (Lu 16:23, 28), as the article LAZARUS (No. 2) shows, Jesus was not describing the literal experience of a real person but, rather, was setting forth an illustration. Revelation provides a number of other instances where “torment” clearly has an illustrative or symbolic sense, as is evident from context.—Re 9:5; 11:10; 18:7, 10.
https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1200004454?q=torment&p=par
In the Scriptures fiery torment is associated with destruction and death. For example, in the Greek Septuagint translation of the Hebrew Scriptures the word for torment (baʹsa·nos) is several times used with reference to punishment by death. (Eze 3:20; 32:24, 30) Similarly, concerning Babylon the Great, the book of Revelation says, “the kings of the earth . . . will weep and beat themselves in grief over her, when they look at the smoke from the burning of her, while they stand at a distance because of their fear of her torment [Gr., ba·sa·ni·smouʹ].” (Re 18:9, 10) As to the meaning of the torment, an angel later explains: “Thus with a swift pitch will Babylon the great city be hurled down, and she will never be found again.” (Re 18:21) So, fiery torment here is parallel with destruction, and in the case of Babylon the Great, it is everlasting destruction.—Compare Re 17:16; 18:8, 15-17, 19.
Therefore, those who are ‘tormented forever’ (from Gr., ba·sa·niʹzo) in the lake of fire undergo “second death” from which there is no resurrection. The related Greek word ba·sa·ni·stesʹ is translated ‘jailer’ in Matthew 18:34. (RS, NW, ED; compare vs 30.) Thus those hurled into the lake of fire will be held under restraint, or “jailed,” in death throughout eternity.
https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1200002669?q=torment&p=par
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Matthew 25:46 is actually one of the clearest verses in the Bible. Jesus talks about the wicked in “everlasting punishment” and “the righteous into eternal life.” The same identical word is used for both everlasting and eternal. The word in the Greek is aionios. If eternal life does, in fact, last forever, then it stands to reason that hell also would last forever, since Jesus used it as a comparison.
The Lord Jesus spoke of eternal (same word as “everlasting”) fire (v. 41), eternal punishment (v. 46), and eternal life (v. 46). The same one who taught eternal life taught eternal punishment.
https://soulchoiceministries.org/is...MI_qCS8c3p2QIVxGF-Ch1COw0OEAMYASAAEgIbE_D_BwE
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What does God means by destroy? Why would destroying it take day and night, for eternity?
Answering my questions with more questions is not an answer...I don't get into one sided convos, sorry...
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It's a legitimate question. Also.....
The question is the response - for indeed, why would it take for the soul (if it isn't immortal), to be destroyed - day and night - for all eternity? Thus, what does God means by destroy?
It must mean "punish," not annihilate.
Anyway....the explanations (for both arguments), have been provided for those who are searching for answers. They can study all the arguments for both sides, use God-given critical thinking.....and decide for themselves.
Now....let's get back on topic. Sorry, gfm7175. Got carried away.
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I will try to be brief. It's a dramatic story, one I did not write.
I was an alcoholic/addict. In Florida, after a ten day "run" with speed, coke, crack, LSD, Extacy, marijuana and beer I found myself on an 11 story balcony looking at the orange lines for car spaces, wondering. I wondered if I would leave an impression in the hot tarmac. I wondered if its true you see god, and what would he say.
About then I felt a change of air, perhaps a pressure change and then the thought, or rather feeling of "you'd probably **** that up too."
Three months later I walked into an AA meeting and found myself going back again and again, I think I was trying to find an excuse, something wrong with them - freaks who didn't drink. And they talked about "a god of my personal understanding". I hated that part and told them so, given the chance I can still go an hour or more on factual issues with the Roman Catholic church.
But then I was a year and a half sober, looking back now it seems like a week end, as that was 27 years ago. At about that time I figured I was owed a meeting by this God. So I went looking. I went to churches. I learned that they are just as snobby and judgmental as anyone else, only unlike AA, these guys let it hang out there.
I finished my step five and had started anew going to churches, this time because there was a woman involved. But I heard the preacher say "Jesus wants a one on one relationship with every one of you." I became baptized, I changed churches, changed again, then had a big argument with a pastor over women being allowed to preach and he asked me to leave. I did and went to a church with one pastor a woman, who turned out to be lesbian and I thought "this is it".
Nope.
I have done some studying about biblical times and a whole lot about the Roman empire, suffice it to say that it "clarified" what I was sensing about my relationship with God as every time I ran into problems with the church I felt like I was wrong and had offended God. However, and I will in another way tell you how, but have come to believe that ALL religions have a social goal in mind and that is control, if only morally, of the populace.
Jesus never said women can't preach, in fact you read "the woman at the well", in the end he sends her out to tell her people that "I have come." To me that makes her the first apostle. Jesus never became a Christian, he never celebrated Christian holidays nor attended mass. He was a Jew, a Jew who had become irritable at his ground crew.
I don't believe he ever intended to form a new religion, but rather improve the old one, get rid of the clergy (who have always lived off the sheep) and deal with him one on one.
People think I'm crazy. However despite one medical issue after another the last ten years from diabetes to migraines to heart disease, I am the happiest I have ever been. And the more I shed the social ideals of this world the more happy I become.
People aren't made better by going to church, they are made better by honest reflection of oneself and how that self treats others
I was an alcoholic/addict. In Florida, after a ten day "run" with speed, coke, crack, LSD, Extacy, marijuana and beer I found myself on an 11 story balcony looking at the orange lines for car spaces, wondering. I wondered if I would leave an impression in the hot tarmac. I wondered if its true you see god, and what would he say.
About then I felt a change of air, perhaps a pressure change and then the thought, or rather feeling of "you'd probably **** that up too."
Three months later I walked into an AA meeting and found myself going back again and again, I think I was trying to find an excuse, something wrong with them - freaks who didn't drink. And they talked about "a god of my personal understanding". I hated that part and told them so, given the chance I can still go an hour or more on factual issues with the Roman Catholic church.
But then I was a year and a half sober, looking back now it seems like a week end, as that was 27 years ago. At about that time I figured I was owed a meeting by this God. So I went looking. I went to churches. I learned that they are just as snobby and judgmental as anyone else, only unlike AA, these guys let it hang out there.
I finished my step five and had started anew going to churches, this time because there was a woman involved. But I heard the preacher say "Jesus wants a one on one relationship with every one of you." I became baptized, I changed churches, changed again, then had a big argument with a pastor over women being allowed to preach and he asked me to leave. I did and went to a church with one pastor a woman, who turned out to be lesbian and I thought "this is it".
Nope.
I have done some studying about biblical times and a whole lot about the Roman empire, suffice it to say that it "clarified" what I was sensing about my relationship with God as every time I ran into problems with the church I felt like I was wrong and had offended God. However, and I will in another way tell you how, but have come to believe that ALL religions have a social goal in mind and that is control, if only morally, of the populace.
Jesus never said women can't preach, in fact you read "the woman at the well", in the end he sends her out to tell her people that "I have come." To me that makes her the first apostle. Jesus never became a Christian, he never celebrated Christian holidays nor attended mass. He was a Jew, a Jew who had become irritable at his ground crew.
I don't believe he ever intended to form a new religion, but rather improve the old one, get rid of the clergy (who have always lived off the sheep) and deal with him one on one.
People think I'm crazy. However despite one medical issue after another the last ten years from diabetes to migraines to heart disease, I am the happiest I have ever been. And the more I shed the social ideals of this world the more happy I become.
People aren't made better by going to church, they are made better by honest reflection of oneself and how that self treats others
- Joined
- Oct 5, 2017
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- Very Conservative
I guess I've always thought of the "lake of fire" in a similar way that you two think of it, as "eternal death", death meaning "eternal separation from God"... Similar to the way that physical death is the separation of soul from body, spiritual death is the separation of soul from God.
I've thought of it as everybody will receive resurrection bodies, but only the people saved through Jesus will be eternally alive (spiritual life, as in soul joined with God), while unbelievers will be eternally dead (spiritual death, as in soul fully separated from God).