• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

GOD HIMSELF will be with them[W;105]

"I know that my redeemer lives, and that in the end he will stand on the earth." - Job 19:25
 
Moderator's Warning:
Way too much derailing, off topic comments, and general trolling going on. Any more will result in points and thread bans.
 
Logician Man said:
You're now doing exactly what you stated you didn't want done. ( derailing your own thread after I told you I would step aside ). If you're really going to be consistent, you should be calling out IJM also, as it was he who interjected himself into the convo and engaged in starting a debate by making an irrelevant comment about JWs, something you stated this thread was not designed for. Correct ?
Click to expand...

Deleted
 
Philippians 2

5 In your relationships with one another, have the same mindset as Christ Jesus:

6 Who, being in very nature God,
did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage;

7 rather, he made himself nothing
by taking the very nature of a servant,
being made in human likeness.

8 And being found in appearance as a man,
he humbled himself
by becoming obedient to death—
even death on a cross!




If Jesus is the very nature, God - and He is EQUAL with God - who else can He be?
 
Acts 20


22 “And now, compelled by the Spirit, I am going to Jerusalem, not knowing what will happen to me there.
23 I only know that in every city the Holy Spirit warns me that prison and hardships are facing me.
24 However, I consider my life worth nothing to me; my only aim is to finish the race and complete the task the Lord Jesus has given me—the task of testifying to the good news of God’s grace.

25 “Now I know that none of you among whom I have gone about preaching the kingdom will ever see me again.
26 Therefore, I declare to you today that I am innocent of the blood of any of you.
27 For I have not hesitated to proclaim to you the whole will of God.
28 Keep watch over yourselves and all the flock of which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers.
Be shepherds of the church of God, which he bought with his own blood.




GOD HIMSELF (as man - Jesus), DIED ON THE CROSS FOR US! Jesus is God!
It also gives the Trinity.



Also, Church of God is referred to as Church of Christ.




Matthew 16:18
And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.


Romans 16:16
Greet one another with a holy kiss. All the churches of Christ greet you.




Why would Jesus claim the Church to be His own if it's supposed to be God's?
 
vesper said:
Amen.
Click to expand...

It is also a very bad piece of information. If you look at the term 'created' in hebrew that follows Genesis 1:1 you will see it is in singular form. That makes the previous noun magnified in importance. Somewhat like the royal 'we'. Another example is in genesis 4:16. Moses is referred to an 'elohim' over Aaron. (Lord). That doesn't make Moses plural, but magnifies the important of Moses over Aaron.
 
tosca1 said:
Philippians 2

5 In your relationships with one another, have the same mindset as Christ Jesus:

6 Who, being in very nature God,
did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage;

7 rather, he made himself nothing
by taking the very nature of a servant,
being made in human likeness.

8 And being found in appearance as a man,
he humbled himself
by becoming obedient to death—
even death on a cross!




If Jesus is the very nature, God - and He is EQUAL with God - who else can He be?
Click to expand...


Furthermore.....

If Jesus is not God Himself - claiming to be "EQUAL with God" - that smacks of sheer vanity!
It's a downright lie!

Jesus made claim to titles that are claimed by, and used for God! Just read them all again!

Someone who tells lies and contradicts the Scriptures...... cannot be from God.
BUT, we do know who is the master of lies and deceits, don't we?

So, there you go.
 
The name, Immanuel, more than just "imply" that Jesus is God.
It declares!

It is supported by both Luke 1 and John 1 (all referring to Jesus' conception and birth)!

John 1 formally introduced THE WORD as God, and Jesus as God Himself, who came as a human.


John 1
The Eternal Word
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.


The Word Becomes Flesh

14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.




Luke 1 declares the role of God (as Jesus).

It does not say the baby whom Mary will conceive, is the Son of God.

It says, the baby WILL BE CALLED the Son of God. TWICE!



Luke 1
30 Then the angel said to her, “Do not be afraid, Mary, for you have found favor with God.
31 And behold, you will conceive in your womb and bring forth a Son, and shall call His name Jesus.
32 He will be great, and will be called the Son of the Highest; and the Lord God will give Him the throne of His father David.
33 And He will reign over the house of Jacob forever, and of His kingdom there will be no end.”

34 Then Mary said to the angel, “How can this be, since I [g]do not know a man?”

35 And the angel answered and said to her, “The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Highest will overshadow you; therefore, also, that Holy One who is to be born will be called the Son of God.




The same is said in Matthew 1. His name, is a declaration that Jesus is God Himself.


Matthew 1
23 “Behold, the virgin shall be with child, and bear a Son, and they shall call His name Immanuel,” which is translated, “God with us.”



All three verses support, and REINFORCE the fact that Jesus and God are One and the Same!
 
Last edited:

"The voice of him that crieth in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the LORD, make straight in the desert a highway for our God" (Isa.40:3).


The Hebrew translation for "LORD" in this verse is Yehovah.


(Note: Thanks to Jerry Shugart for this).
 
Thanks to Elvira for giving this. I don't think it's been posted in this thread.



“He is the reflection of [God’s] glory and the exact representation of his very being.”

Hebrews 1:3



Not only is Jesus a reflection of God (as in your own reflection shown in the mirror)……………….

.....................….but, He is also the EXACT REPRESENTATION of GOD's VERY BEING!



In other words, Jesus Christ is the FACSIMILE of God, as a human!


Facsimile means, a reproduction!
 
Last edited:
tosca1 said:
John 8

19 Then they asked him, “Where is your father?”

“You do not know me or my Father,” Jesus replied. “If you knew me, you would know my Father also.”



Dispute over who Jesus is

24 I told you that you would die in your sins; if you do not believe that I am he, you will indeed die in your sins.”

25 “Who are you?” they asked.

“Just what I have been telling you from the beginning,” Jesus replied. 26 “I have much to say in judgment of you. But he who sent me is trustworthy, and what I have heard from him I tell the world.”

27 They did not understand that he was telling them about his Father. 28 So Jesus said, “When you have lifted up[a] the Son of Man, then you will know that I am he and that I do nothing on my own but speak just what the Father has taught me. 29 The one who sent me is with me; he has not left me alone, for I always do what pleases him.”



Jesus' Claims About Himself

50 I am not seeking glory for myself; but there is one who seeks it, and he is the judge. 51 Very truly I tell you, whoever obeys my word will never see death.”



54 Jesus replied, “If I glorify myself, my glory means nothing. My Father, whom you claim as your God, is the one who glorifies me. 55 Though you do not know him, I know him. If I said I did not, I would be a liar like you, but I do know him and obey his word.





God wants glorification. He's the only God, and He wants to be glorified.
Therefore......why would Jesus claim that God glorifies Him?
Wouldn't that contradict this verse?


Isaiah 42
8 I am the Lord: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images.


Not only does He identify Himself as The Lord (the same title given to Jesus)........but why would God give glory to the Son, if they're not One and the Same?


God says He isn't going to give glory to another.....why is Jesus claiming otherwise?



If you believe Jesus is not God....

......then, you're saying the Bible has contradictions......Jesus was just mouthing off nonsense......

.........and therefore, the Bible cannot be trusted.
Click to expand...

Because man's interpretations often cannot be trusted as being correct. There is the Father and the Lord. Two personages. Now, you should be able to justify and accept the teachings of Jesus.
 
tosca1 said:
Thanks to Elvira for giving this. I don't think it's been posted in this thread.



“He is the reflection of [God’s] glory and the exact representation of his very being.”

Hebrews 1:3



Not only is Jesus a reflection of God (as in your own reflection shown in the mirror)……………….

.....................….but, He is also the EXACT REPRESENTATION of GOD's VERY BEING!



In other words, Jesus Christ is the FACSIMILE of God, as a human!


Facsimile means, a reproduction!
Click to expand...

Elvira is confused. Yes, Jesus is the reproduction of the Father through the woman, Mary, mother of Jesus. He is the very Lord spoken about in the Old Testament, Jehovah the Son of the Father. Two very distinct and separate personages.
 
tosca1 said:
Thanks to Elvira for giving this. I don't think it's been posted in this thread.



“He is the reflection of [God’s] glory and the exact representation of his very being.”

Hebrews 1:3



Not only is Jesus a reflection of God (as in your own reflection shown in the mirror)……………….

.....................….but, He is also the EXACT REPRESENTATION of GOD's VERY BEING!



In other words, Jesus Christ is the FACSIMILE of God, as a human!


Facsimile means, a reproduction!
Click to expand...

Not a facsimile, the same thing. Coessential, the same. Not a copy.
 
it's just me said:
Not a facsimile, the same thing. Coessential, the same. Not a copy.
Click to expand...

Yes, I understand what you mean. Jesus is God.

But a "facsimile" of God - as a human!
God is Spirit. Therefore, God is not human.

Because Jesus is God Himself who became man...………. thus, He is described as an exact representation of God.



A synonym for a "representation," is "a copy."

Representation Synonyms, Representation Antonyms | Thesaurus.com


Synonyms for "facsimile" are: carbon copy, copy, duplicate, mirror, Xerox

Facsimile Synonyms, Facsimile Antonyms | Thesaurus.com



Interestingly, facsimile's synonym of "mirror," also jives well with the verse's description of Christ as a reflection of God's glory.
 
Last edited:
Who would've thought that Elvira would end up assisting me with evidences??? :lol:

She made a good point in her rebuttal - I never even noticed this until she pointed it out! I'm so excited!

Here, let me just re-post it:



Originally Posted by it's just me View Post
Well, let's see:

He had faith in Christ and he was told he would be in paradise with Jesus that very day. Evidently he was forgiven his crimes.

Other than that I can't think of anything.


Elvira said:
But he wasn't with Jesus that very day...that is false....Jesus was in hell/the grave for 3 days before he was resurrected and was on earth another 40 days before he ascended back to heaven...
Click to expand...
Click to expand...


BINGO!

Now, you're getting warmer.......:mrgreen:



Luke 23

42 Then he said, “Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom.”

43 Jesus answered him, “Truly I tell you, today you will be with me (GOD) in paradise.”




Why did you think Jesus said the thief will be with Him on that day in paradise?

Because, while Jesus was going to make a stop-over in hell for 3 days - the thief would proceed to, and be with GOD in paradise!




Elvira said:
But he wasn't with Jesus that very day...that is false....Jesus was in hell/the grave for 3 days
Click to expand...





Surely, Jesus wouldn't be stating anything FALSE? Right?

Therefore.....you should arrive at only one conclusion:


ME = GOD!



Thank you for that!!!!!!
 
Last edited:
Manc Skipper said:
So if Jesus IS God, when he said "Father, forgive them!", who was he talking to?
Click to expand...


He was talking to the Father.



Question: "If Jesus was God, how could He pray to God? Was Jesus praying to Himself?"

Answer: To understand Jesus as God on earth praying to His Father in heaven, we need to realize that the eternal Father and the eternal Son had an eternal relationship before Jesus took upon Himself the form of a man. Please read John 5:19-27, particularly verse 23 where Jesus teaches that the Father sent the Son (also see John 15:10). Jesus did not become the Son of God when He was born in Bethlehem. He has always been the Son of God from eternity past, still is the Son of God, and always will be.

Jesus was always part of the tri-unity, along with the Holy Spirit. The tri-unity always existed, the Father God, the Son God, and the Spirit God, not three gods, but one God existing as three persons. Jesus taught that He and His Father are one (John 10:30), meaning that He and His Father are of the same substance and the same essence. The Father, Son and Spirit are three co-equal persons existing as God. These three had, and continue to have, an eternal relationship.
Click to expand...
If Jesus was God, how could He pray to God? Was Jesus praying to Himself? | GotQuestions.org
 
Manc Skipper said:
This is gibberish. If he was God he would know what he was thinking about his mistreatment because it was happening to him. Too silly. Snap crackle and pop
Click to expand...


That response is too common. A dime a dozen.
Because, just like most atheists in forums - you're arguing about something you hardly get. :)
If you even have an inkling what the Triune God means, you wouldn't be asking that question.

Even your answer now, it shows either you didn't read the whole explanation in that link, or it went sailing over your head.
Your post is too revealing - it reveals you still don't get it. :shrug:

Anyway, that's the belief of Trinitarians.
If you have any problem with that belief - then, for your sake, we better discuss it in the appropriate section.
 
Last edited:
tosca1 said:
That response is too common. A dime a dozen.
Because, just like most atheists in forums - you're arguing about something you hardly get. :)
If you even have an inkling what the Triune God means, you wouldn't be asking that question.

Even your answer now, it shows either you didn't read the whole explanation in that link, or it went sailing over your head.
Your post is too revealing - it reveals you still don't get it. :shrug:

Anyway, that's the belief of Trinitarians.
If you have any problem with that belief - then, for your sake, we better discuss it in the appropriate section.
Click to expand...

The triune God is nonsensical. It means that at least two incompatible cults were cobbled together to forge a new improved cult when the old ones were dying.
 
Manc Skipper said:
The triune God is nonsensical. It means that at least two incompatible cults were cobbled together to forge a new improved cult when the old ones were dying.
Click to expand...

That part, I agree with...the truth about Jehovah God and Jesus Christ will never die out, though...it prevails today...
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom