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When they die do they go to Heaven?

When they die do they go to Heaven?

  • Total voters
    18
Desert Storm said:
The entire Bible was written by humans, not by God. At least thats my opinion
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Right...and humans (King James of England) deleted lots of books in it and changed a few wordings he did not like.
That is why the King James version is not the complete Bible.
He did not like women in strong pious roles so he just deleted the books that said so.
He also did not care much for Romans either, so those passages and books got deleted too.
You never hear about Victoria sent by Cesar Augustus to bring back a healing image of Jesus to heal his internal bleeding.
You never hear of the woman who made Paul jealous with her piety and was fed to the lions, but all the female lions surrounded her and protected her from the male lions.
Or the book of Jubilees that describes Jesus as an adolescent stretching boards for his father and healing a boy that fell off a roof. Or the blackbirds. Must not forget the blackbird story.
There is much much more good ol' King James deleted because of things he disagreed with.

You are damned right, humans had a hand in it.
 
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Acadia said:
I don't believe God would have made us supremely sentient beings and expected us not to have an opinion about such things;)
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He also gave us the instructions for succeeding or failing in His eyes...it would be detrimental for us and others not to share what we've learned...

"To the weak I became weak, in order to gain the weak. I have become all things to people of all sorts, so that I might by all possible means save some." 1 Cor. 9:22

"Pay constant attention to yourself and to your teaching. Persevere in these things, for by doing this you will save both yourself and those who listen to you." 1 Tim. 4:16
 
Acadia said:
I don't believe God would have made us supremely sentient beings and expected us not to have an opinion about such things;)
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If your read my post you would see I said that exact thing.
Yes, we have an OPINION. But that is all.
What actually happens to someone's immortal soul is between them and God.
My OPINION and your OPINION on where someone else's soul goes has nothing to do with it.

Read my signature line....read for COMPREHENSION instead of CONFRONTATION.
You did not comprehend my post because you are looking for a fight and only saw what you wanted to.
Missing my point entirely because you wanted a CONFRONTATION.
 
PleasantValley said:
If your read my post you would see I said that exact thing.
Yes, we have an OPINION. But that is all.
What actually happens to someone's immortal soul is between them and God.
My OPINION and your OPINION on where someone else's soul goes has nothing to do with it.

Read my signature line....read for COMPREHENSION instead of CONFRONTATION.
You did not comprehend my post because you are looking for a fight and only saw what you wanted to.
Missing my point entirely because you wanted a CONFRONTATION.
Click to expand...

Whoa! WWJD?
I was asking out of pure curiosity, you know, that thing God endowed human beings with?

Chill, ok? I was not intending to be confrontational. I'm sorry you were triggered.

Again, do as Jesus would...

much love
 
Acadia said:
What about people who lived and died (after Jesus) and never knew of Him? What of shear ignorance?
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Good question. I would guess that God won't judge those people by the same basis that he will judge people who have indeed heard of him? In the end, it's God who's doing the judging, and he'll be a fair judge given each person's individual circumstances such as your question was about. In a general sense, for people who have heard of him, and have by their own free will accepted or denied him, I stand by my above post.

Acadia said:
What of people who don't abide by "accepting Jesus Christ as their personal Lord and Savior"?

Thanks for considering you answers.
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Then my guess is that they won't have a happy eternity... They need to believe and have true faith that Jesus is the Son of God, who lived on this Earth in flesh form among us, and was crucified in our place for our sins so that we can be saved and have eternal life through him. In the general sense, without that true belief/faith in their hearts, they will not be saved. Of course, only God alone can be the judge of whether people possess that true belief/faith.

Thanks for the questions, and God's blessings to you,

gakm7
 
PleasantValley said:
Right...and humans (King James of England) deleted lots of books in it and changed a few wordings he did not like.
That is why the King James version is not the complete Bible.
He did not like women in strong pious roles so he just deleted the books that said so.
He also did not care much for Romans either, so those passages and books got deleted too.
You never hear about Victoria sent by Cesar Augustus to bring back a healing image of Jesus to heal his internal bleeding.
You never hear of the woman who made Paul jealous with her piety and was fed to the lions, but all the female lions surrounded her and protected her from the male lions.
Or the book of Jubilees that describes Jesus as an adolescent stretching boards for his father and healing a boy that fell off a roof. Or the blackbirds. Must not forget the blackbird story.
There is much much more good ol' King James deleted because of things he disagreed with.

You are damned right, humans had a hand in it.
Click to expand...

Since the King James Version is such a bastardized version in your opinion, which version(s) would you recommend that would be the "complete Bible"?
 
the bible is very clear about the way to heaven. Works will not get you into heaven.
Being a supposed good person will not get you into heaven.

I am the way the truth and the light none may come to the father but through me.
Christ is the only way to heaven. Without the forgiveness of sin there is no way to heaven.

Unfortunately for the person mention in the OP their destination is hell.

For many will come to me on that day saying Lord Lord we have cast out demons and healed the sick in your name, and i will
say get thee from me your workers of iniquity for i never knew you.

apart from a relationship with God and the forgiveness of sin there is no way to heaven.
this is straight from the bible and 100% biblical.
anything else comes from something else that isn't biblical.
 
PleasantValley said:
Right...and humans (King James of England) deleted lots of books in it and changed a few wordings he did not like.
That is why the King James version is not the complete Bible.
He did not like women in strong pious roles so he just deleted the books that said so.
He also did not care much for Romans either, so those passages and books got deleted too.
You never hear about Victoria sent by Cesar Augustus to bring back a healing image of Jesus to heal his internal bleeding.
You never hear of the woman who made Paul jealous with her piety and was fed to the lions, but all the female lions surrounded her and protected her from the male lions.
Or the book of Jubilees that describes Jesus as an adolescent stretching boards for his father and healing a boy that fell off a roof. Or the blackbirds. Must not forget the blackbird story.
There is much much more good ol' King James deleted because of things he disagreed with.

You are damned right, humans had a hand in it.
Click to expand...

most of that stuff is Gnostic writings that have no verifiable source nor can their authors be verified.
it was one of the big reason for the council of Nicaea.

King James is just one of many. I personally go with the ESV which is about as close to the greek you can get.
however even so when compared with the earliest of manuscripts the bible is highly accurate.
 
ludin said:
most of that stuff is Gnostic writings that have no verifiable source nor can their authors be verified.
it was one of the big reason for the council of Nicaea.

King James is just one of many. I personally go with the ESV which is about as close to the greek you can get.
however even so when compared with the earliest of manuscripts the bible is highly accurate.
Click to expand...

I personally go with the KJV, as it "reads in a way that no other version reads" (which is hard to explain, but "KJV lovers" will know what I mean by that), and I like having the distinctions of "thee, thou, you, ye" that many other versions don't provide, but I do use your preferred ESV as my main supplemental version, and my church uses the NIV, so I regularly see those three versions.
 
gfm7175 said:
Since the King James Version is such a bastardized version in your opinion, which version(s) would you recommend that would be the "complete Bible"?
Click to expand...

Probably the one containing the Gospel of Judas.
 
gfm7175 said:
I personally go with the KJV, as it "reads in a way that no other version reads" (which is hard to explain, but "KJV lovers" will know what I mean by that), and I like having the distinctions of "thee, thou, you, ye" that many other versions don't provide, but I do use your preferred ESV as my main supplemental version, and my church uses the NIV, so I regularly see those three versions.
Click to expand...

If you don't already have one, get a 1611 version. Before the 1800s every King James Bible printed had the Apocrypha in it, the books that King James threw out.
 
ludin said:
the bible is very clear about the way to heaven. Works will not get you into heaven.
Being a supposed good person will not get you into heaven.

I am the way the truth and the light none may come to the father but through me.
Christ is the only way to heaven. Without the forgiveness of sin there is no way to heaven.

Unfortunately for the person mention in the OP their destination is hell.

For many will come to me on that day saying Lord Lord we have cast out demons and healed the sick in your name, and i will
say get thee from me your workers of iniquity for i never knew you.

apart from a relationship with God and the forgiveness of sin there is no way to heaven.
this is straight from the bible and 100% biblical.
anything else comes from something else that isn't biblical.
Click to expand...

If you are searching for the truth, God will find you. If you are saved it will be through the blood of Christ.
 
Acadia said:
Whoa! WWJD?
I was asking out of pure curiosity, you know, that thing God endowed human beings with?

Chill, ok? I was not intending to be confrontational. I'm sorry you were triggered.

Again, do as Jesus would...

much love
Click to expand...

No worries, friend. I was not triggered. Your emoticon in that post in question seemed like you were talking down to me, that is all.
...and I apologize if you were not.

...and (as a joke >>>) whenever someone asked "What would Jesus do", remember that also includes using a whip and flipping over tables.
 
gfm7175 said:
Since the King James Version is such a bastardized version in your opinion, which version(s) would you recommend that would be the "complete Bible"?
Click to expand...

If you are genuinely interested in knowing, i will tell you.
Just understand the "complete Bible" as you say is not one volume all bound together.
It is a collection of books sorted together to make a common canon of the story of Christianity.
First pieced together by Constantine and Christian scholars from all over the known world.
They made the first "Bible", but it was not just one bound book but a selection of books, letters, and writings.
 
JANFU said:
A person, does not believe in God, lives a life helping others, the poor, those that others look down upon and shun.
When they die do they go to Heaven?
Simple yes or no.
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No (highly doubtful).

Romans 1:20 - "For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse."

Romans 3:23 - "All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God." And Jesus said, "No one is good but God alone." - Mark 10:18
 
Logicman said:
No (highly doubtful).

Romans 1:20 - "For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse."

Romans 3:23 - "All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God." And Jesus said, "No one is good but God alone." - Mark 10:18
Click to expand...

"He will render to each one according to his works: to those who by patience in well-doing seek for glory and honor and immortality, he will give eternal life; but for those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, there will be wrath and fury. There will be tribulation and distress for every human being who does evil, the Jew first and also the Greek, but glory and honor and peace for everyone who does good, the Jew first and also the Greek. for God shows no partiality.

For all who have sinned without the law will also perish without the law, and all who have sinned under the law will be judged by the law. For it is not the hearers of the law who are righteous before God, but the doers of the law who will be justified. For when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do what the law requires, they are a law to themselves, even though they do not have the law. They show that the work of the law is written on their hearts, while their conscience also bears witness, and their conflicting thoughts accuse or even excuse them on that day when, according to my gospel, God judges the secrets of men by Christ Jesus. Romans 2:6-16
 
The post I made above is theoretical, of course. I've had people say to me "If you keep the 10 Commandments you will be saved". True, but you have to do it. At least one of the people who have said this to me take the Lord's name in vain, bear false witness, and steal on a daily basis.
 
it's just me said:
"He will render to each one according to his works: to those who by patience in well-doing seek for glory and honor and immortality, he will give eternal life; but for those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, there will be wrath and fury. There will be tribulation and distress for every human being who does evil, the Jew first and also the Greek, but glory and honor and peace for everyone who does good, the Jew first and also the Greek. for God shows no partiality.
Click to expand...

"For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God - not by works, so that no one can boast. 10 For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do." - Ephesians 2:8-9

Here is the relationship between faith, works, rewards, and salvation:

I Corinthians 3:11-15:

"For no one can lay any foundation other than the one already laid, which is Jesus Christ. If any man builds on this foundation using gold, silver, costly stones, wood, hay, or straw, his work will be shown for what it is, because the day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each man's work. If what he has built survives, he will receive his reward. If it is burned up, he will suffer loss; he himself will be saved, but only as one escaping through the flames."

The Full Life Study Bible provides these remarks on the above passage:

"HE WILL SUFFER LOSS: There is a future judgment for believers (I John 4:17) as to the degree of their faithfulness to God and the grace given to them during this life on earth (v.10; 4:2-5; 2 Cor.5:10). In that judgment there is the possibility that a believer, although receiving salvation, may experience great loss (Greek zemloo, meaning 'to suffer loss or damage'). The careless believer is in danger of suffering loss or damage in the following ways: (1) a feeling of shame at Christ's coming (2 Ti. 2:15; 1 John 2:28); (2) loss of his or her life's work for God (vv. 12-15); (3) loss of glory and honor before God (cf. Romans 2:7); (4) loss of opportunity for service and authority in heaven (Mt. 25:14-30); (5) a low position in heaven (Mt. 25:14-30); (6) loss of rewards (cf. v. 14-15); and (7) repayment for the wrong done to others (Col. 3:24-25).

AS ONE ESCAPING THROUGH THE FLAMES: 'Escaping through the flames' is probably an expression meaning 'barely saved.' God will evaluate the quality of life, influence, teaching, and work in the church of each person. If his work is judged unworthy, he will lose his (heavenly) reward, yet he himself will be saved." ( Full Life 1755-56)

Godly works do not result in justification / salvation, but are directed towards the edification of God, and the welfare and salvation of others, and eventually result in some type of heavenly rewards. For those who may have been saved just prior to death (the thief on the cross), there may not be any works to reward, yet their salvation is yet assured. It is my contention that once a person is regenerated, eventually, if they live long enough, there should be some sort of Godly works in their life (James chapter 2).

Cheers...
 
Chagos said:
No. Because there's no such place.
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JANFU said:
And on that we differ. But that is what we as (somewhat/barely -referring mostly all humans) civilized people can do, differ and disagree.
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Like Chagos and the conservative religious posters, I disagree as well.

The majority of Christian schools of thought are quite clear that being "good" does not save a person. Christianity is not a moral code. It's the worship of a supernatural deity. If you are to claim as a Christian that being a moral individual is the equivalent of worshiping Jesus/God in its results, then why would you need to even recognize or worship said deity? Why not just be a moral person?

Thus, one reason (of many) why I'm an atheist.

Acadia said:
What about people who lived and died (after Jesus) and never knew of Him? What of shear ignorance?
What of people who don't abide by "accepting Jesus Christ as their personal Lord and Savior"? Thanks for considering you answers.
Click to expand...
gfm7175 said:
Good question ... In the end, it's God who's doing the judging, and he'll be a fair judge given each person's individual circumstances such as your question was about.
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In less words, going to hell.

If you predicate that Jesus is the path Salvation, then those that are ignorant of said deity are not going to be saved. Period. If you believe there to be many alternative ways to Salvation, including God's own judgement based on "circumstances," then what exactly is the point of the religion?
 
Logicman said:
"For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God - not by works, so that no one can boast. 10 For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do." - Ephesians 2:8-9

Here is the relationship between faith, works, rewards, and salvation:

I Corinthians 3:11-15:

"For no one can lay any foundation other than the one already laid, which is Jesus Christ. If any man builds on this foundation using gold, silver, costly stones, wood, hay, or straw, his work will be shown for what it is, because the day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each man's work. If what he has built survives, he will receive his reward. If it is burned up, he will suffer loss; he himself will be saved, but only as one escaping through the flames."

The Full Life Study Bible provides these remarks on the above passage:

"HE WILL SUFFER LOSS: There is a future judgment for believers (I John 4:17) as to the degree of their faithfulness to God and the grace given to them during this life on earth (v.10; 4:2-5; 2 Cor.5:10). In that judgment there is the possibility that a believer, although receiving salvation, may experience great loss (Greek zemloo, meaning 'to suffer loss or damage'). The careless believer is in danger of suffering loss or damage in the following ways: (1) a feeling of shame at Christ's coming (2 Ti. 2:15; 1 John 2:28); (2) loss of his or her life's work for God (vv. 12-15); (3) loss of glory and honor before God (cf. Romans 2:7); (4) loss of opportunity for service and authority in heaven (Mt. 25:14-30); (5) a low position in heaven (Mt. 25:14-30); (6) loss of rewards (cf. v. 14-15); and (7) repayment for the wrong done to others (Col. 3:24-25).

AS ONE ESCAPING THROUGH THE FLAMES: 'Escaping through the flames' is probably an expression meaning 'barely saved.' God will evaluate the quality of life, influence, teaching, and work in the church of each person. If his work is judged unworthy, he will lose his (heavenly) reward, yet he himself will be saved." ( Full Life 1755-56)

Godly works do not result in justification / salvation, but are directed towards the edification of God, and the welfare and salvation of others, and eventually result in some type of heavenly rewards. For those who may have been saved just prior to death (the thief on the cross), there may not be any works to reward, yet their salvation is yet assured. It is my contention that once a person is regenerated, eventually, if they live long enough, there should be some sort of Godly works in their life (James chapter 2).

Cheers...
Click to expand...

No, no, no, no....this is not a "faith vs. works" argument. They are not mutually exclusive.

"What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if someone claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save them? Suppose a brother or a sister is without clothes and daily food. If one of you says to them, “Go in peace; keep warm and well fed,” but does nothing about their physical needs, what good is it? In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead.

But someone will say, “You have faith; I have deeds.”

Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by my deeds." James 2:14-18

Cheers.
 
it's just me said:
No, no, no, no....this is not a "faith vs. works" argument. They are not mutually exclusive.

"What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if someone claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save them? Suppose a brother or a sister is without clothes and daily food. If one of you says to them, “Go in peace; keep warm and well fed,” but does nothing about their physical needs, what good is it? In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead.

But someone will say, “You have faith; I have deeds.”

Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by my deeds." James 2:14-18

Cheers.
Click to expand...

What are you saying - that people can be saved by works? Yes or no?
 
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