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Nfl 2020

dave8383 said:
Of course. I might debate Moss, but the other 3 belong on Mt. Rushmore.

I should add:

Offensive Linemen GOAT: John "Hog" Hannah :mrgreen:
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Hannah was the best I ever saw on the line.

He could move like a cat, and could drive a pile of players backwards at the same time.

Those 33 inch thighs might have been a factor. ;)
 
dave8383 said:
I've joked around on this thread but lets not be stupid about this. Brady is the GOAT full stop.

QB GOAT: Brady

RB GOAT: Jim Brown

WR GOAT: Randy Moss

Defense GOAT: Lawrence Taylor
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Ever heard of a guy named Jerry Rice?
 
dave8383 said:
Of course. I might debate Moss, but the other 3 belong on Mt. Rushmore.
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That's interesting. To me Moss is the most agreeable choice on your list, followed closely by Taylor. Personally I have Berry Sanders as the best RB and Peyton Manning as the best QB (we're only counting prime years, right?).
 
RetiredUSN said:
Hannah was the best I ever saw on the line.

He could move like a cat, and could drive a pile of players backwards at the same time.

Those 33 inch thighs might have been a factor. ;)
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The first book I ever remember reading was Instant Replay by Jerry Kramer. The Packers had 2 of history's best offensive linemen in Jerry Kramer and Forrest Gregg. Anthony Munoz is often considered the absolute best offensive lineman of all time. Its such a critical role that is so easily overlooked. Without the line, there is no discussion of the skill player GOATs.
 
VanceMack said:
The first book I ever remember reading was Instant Replay by Jerry Kramer. The Packers had 2 of history's best offensive linemen in Jerry Kramer and Forrest Gregg. Anthony Munoz is often considered the absolute best offensive lineman of all time. Its such a critical role that is so easily overlooked. Without the line, there is no discussion of the skill player GOATs.
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Don't forget Fuzzy Thurston and Ken Bowman. There's a reason why the 1960's Packers had a powerful running game.
 
Jack Hays said:
Don't forget Fuzzy Thurston and Ken Bowman. There's a reason why the 1960's Packers had a powerful running game.
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And Jim Ringo...
 
Threegoofs said:
Walter Payton.

The matter is concluded.
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I still hold a grudge against Ditka for allowing Perry to score and not Payton, in the ‘85 SB!
 
Threegoofs said:
Walter Payton.

The matter is concluded.
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I can't argue with that. For most of his career the Bears didn't have a decent QB and he kept succeeding against stacked boxes.

As far as offensive linemen go, I might be a little biased as a Cowboys fan, but Larry Allen was as good as anyone.
 
Binary_Digit said:
That's interesting. To me Moss is the most agreeable choice on your list, followed closely by Taylor. Personally I have Berry Sanders as the best RB and Peyton Manning as the best QB (we're only counting prime years, right?).
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The reason someone could debate Moss is because of the time he spent being too difficult to be effective. And there was a considerable amount of that.
 
dave8383 said:
The reason someone could debate Moss is because of the time he spent being too difficult to be effective. And there was a considerable amount of that.
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This.

Moss was great when he gave a ****, Rice always gave a ****.
 
armycowboy said:
Ever heard of a guy named Jerry Rice?
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Jerry Rice is the GOAT. But when Steve Largent retired. He owned ALL the receiving records. The ERA is a factor. All of em. He derserves to be in the conversation.
 
Higgins86 said:
You can't deny the fact that the Cheatriots never won a Super Bowl when they had to go on the road for any game prior to the Super Bowl


2001/02 vs the Steelers

2018/19 vs Kansas City

Both AFC Championship Games
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My mistake - you're right of course - I was thinking about going on the road in the playoffs like the Steelers and the Packers did to win all games on the road.
 
If it wasn't for the warrants issued the same day being a bigger story, Harrison's attempt to dirty the Steelers and Mike Tomlin would be the story of the day. That said, there's no way, back in 2010, that Mike Tomlin was taking $75,000 of his own cash to pay Harrison's league fine for an illegal hit. So if true, the money had to come from the Rooneys or the GM with the approval of the Rooneys and the current Rooney owner/pres. of the Steelers calls the claim absolutely false. Ten years after the fact Harrison comes out with this story? Guess it couldn't have anything to do with the fact Tomlin and the Steelers cut Harrison, telling him to retire, and he went to the Cheatriots instead and is no longer considered a Steeler icon. Harrison is tainted as far as Steelers fans are concerned. And this should solidify that Harrison will never be honored by the Steelers, as other past greats have.

If the claim is investigated and proven true, which I doubt is possible at this time, then I hope the league suspends Tomlin for a year, if it was his idea, and/or severely fines/penalizes the Steelers organization if it was management/ownership's idea. It's often been claimed over the years that clubs have paid fines for players - in all sports - if the club believes the player did nothing wrong, If proven, it's a major infraction in my view and should be punished appropriately.
 
Binary_Digit said:
I do acknowledge that QB is the most important and influential position on the field, bar none. But I still contend that championships (and by extension, W/L records) are among the worst criteria for judging a single player's performance, QB or otherwise. Here's a great article that explains it better than I ever could:

The quarterback is one of 53 on an active roster and one of 11 on the field at any given time. He only plays half of the game, and when he is in the game, he hands the ball off more than 40 percent of the time. That means he's only a factor about 30 percent of the time. And while that number is higher than anyone else on his team, it doesn't mean he should be credited with the wins and lassoed with the losses.

Winning is ultimately all that matters, but it's a fallacy that wins and losses can fully measure an individual's performance, and it's lazy to conclude that contributing factors such as the strength of one's teammates, coaches and opponents are secondary or irrelevant.

[snip]

Context can usually only be gained with a multitude of stats. The way I see it, there are several first-level stats that establish a general baseline, and then you must consult at least several second- and third-level stats in order to reaffirm your so-called hypothesis on a quarterback.


Which Metric Matters Most When Evaluating NFL Quarterbacks? | Bleacher Report | Latest News, Videos and Highlights

If we go by career passer rating (a much better measure, but still has its flaws), Marino is far below Brady, but Brady is below Rodgers, Wilson, Brees, and Romo:

NFL Passer Rating Career Leaders | Pro-Football-Reference.com
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From your article -

"Winning is ultimately all that matters, but it's a fallacy that wins and losses can fully measure an individual's performance, and it's lazy to conclude that contributing factors such as the strength of one's teammates, coaches and opponents are secondary or irrelevant.
It does take something to be a "winner," which is why wins and losses are relevant when considering the success of an athlete. But winning percentage should only be one of many statistics we use to measure how effective a player is, and it certainly doesn't deserve a spot at the top of our statistical hierarchy."

Some examples for you to demonstrate my thinking further -

Eli Manning should be a member of the HOF. He has 2 titles and some nice career stats. I would take Marino any day and twice on Sunday over Eli. Both are good QB's, both are worthy of the hall, Marino is the far superior QB.

Dilfer and Foles are both SB winners yet neither one should ever sniff the HOF. In fact, if it were up to me, I don't put SB III winner Namath in the HOF. Everything else about his career was average at best.

So - nice article, well researched, doesn't change my opinion. Marino is not in my top 6. Still think the guy is an all time great.
 
Bucky said:
I will definitely take Brett Favre, Dan Marino and Brees over Brady.

Integrity matters.
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FFS all of a sudden integrity means something to you? You are a cheatriot fan. And don't look now but Farve is in deep ****.
 
RetiredUSN said:
Hannah was the best I ever saw on the line.

He could move like a cat, and could drive a pile of players backwards at the same time.

Those 33 inch thighs might have been a factor. ;)
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Walter Jones gets my nod.

In more than 180 career games, Jones gave up only 23 sacks. Even more amazing, he was called for just nine holding penalties in 12 seasons.

9 in 12 seasons. Let THAT sink in.
 
Binary_Digit said:
Now Dunbar's lawyer says the five witnesses approached him and have signed affidavits claiming that Dunbar wasn't involved after all. Not sure why they didn't just go to the police and update their statements.
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I sure the **** hope that is true. I mean if he did this, he's dumber than a bag of hammers.
 
Binary_Digit said:
Now Dunbar's lawyer says the five witnesses approached him and have signed affidavits claiming that Dunbar wasn't involved after all. Not sure why they didn't just go to the police and update their statements.
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Top Cat said:
I sure the **** hope that is true. I mean if he did this, he's dumber than a bag of hammers.
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It's amazing what a little cash can do to the memory.
 
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