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Major League Baseball 2020

The problem with the Astericks "apology" isn't that it wasn't constructed or presented well. Its that they're not sorry and it shows.
 
TobyOne said:
The problem with the Astericks "apology" isn't that it wasn't constructed or presented well. Its that they're not sorry and it shows.
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I agree. But anyone who thinks for a WS title other teams wouldn't do this is being naive. When this story 1st broke many other teams GM's said just that. Anonymously of course..
 
SenorXm/Sirius said:
I agree. But anyone who thinks for a WS title other teams wouldn't do this is being naive. When this story 1st broke many other teams GM's said just that. Anonymously of course..
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"I know for a fact that could not and would not happen with the Washington Nationals, because I would not allow it to happen with the Washington Nationals," Rizzo said. "So we certainly take pride in that, the way we conduct our business and our process, and we try and do things the right way for the good of the game in its entirety."



Geoff Burke-USA TODAY Sports​
2d
Nats GM: Important to stress Astros 'cheated'

Nationals GM Mike Rizzo said it pains him that the Astros' sign-stealing scandal has put "a black cloud over the sport I love," and said that it's important to him that the league stresses that Houston "cheated."

 
Jack Hays said:
"I know for a fact that could not and would not happen with the Washington Nationals, because I would not allow it to happen with the Washington Nationals," Rizzo said. "So we certainly take pride in that, the way we conduct our business and our process, and we try and do things the right way for the good of the game in its entirety."



Geoff Burke-USA TODAY Sports​
2d
Nats GM: Important to stress Astros 'cheated'

Nationals GM Mike Rizzo said it pains him that the Astros' sign-stealing scandal has put "a black cloud over the sport I love," and said that it's important to him that the league stresses that Houston "cheated."
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Yeah, Verlander was shocked and outraged all these years about juiced balls, sign stealing and steroids too. For years he carried the torch for the 'integrity' of the game. Jon Heyman was on WFAN this past week. He said over the years anytime he saw Verlander(which was many times) Verlander would pepper Heyman with questions about if Heyman was going to vote for steroid users for the HoF..

Sucks when reality comes back and bites the holier than thou people in the ass.
 
Lets see the evidence. If its widespread then it should be investigated. Regardless, the Asterisks cheated to win a WS, took awards that didn't belong to them and adversely affected players careers. They did it on the games biggest stage. If its widespread (and I don't think it is) then use the Asterisks as an example.


SenorXm/Sirius said:
I agree. But anyone who thinks for a WS title other teams wouldn't do this is being naive. When this story 1st broke many other teams GM's said just that. Anonymously of course..
Click to expand...
 
TobyOne said:
Lets see the evidence. If its widespread then it should be investigated. Regardless, the Asterisks cheated to win a WS, took awards that didn't belong to them and adversely affected players careers. They did it on the games biggest stage. If its widespread (and I don't think it is) then use the Asterisks as an example.
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I don't know what we're going to find out..

Baseball knew about this stuff BEFORE 2017, but said and did nothing.. And as I mentioned earlier now this 'investigation' starts the 1st day of the 2017 season, and stops on the last game... So they want us to believe this was the only time this sign stealing was going on.. Not before.. And not after.

Seems to me like MLB just wants this to go away.
 
SenorXm/Sirius said:
Yeah, Verlander was shocked and outraged all these years about juiced balls, sign stealing and steroids too. For years he carried the torch for the 'integrity' of the game. Jon Heyman was on WFAN this past week. He said over the years anytime he saw Verlander(which was many times) Verlander would pepper Heyman with questions about if Heyman was going to vote for steroid users for the HoF..

Sucks when reality comes back and bites the holier than thou people in the ass.
Click to expand...

1. Rizzo really has that reputation.
2. It would be quite foolish to be so forward if he thought he was vulnerable.
3. Nats players have all been consistent.
 
Jack Hays said:
1. Rizzo really has that reputation.
2. It would be quite foolish to be so forward if he thought he was vulnerable.
3. Nats players have all been consistent.
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Nats flat out said they used countermeasures to stop Astros stealing of their signs.

Yet NO ONE from he Nats, or anyone else said a word until after Fiers spoke up.

If someone is using countermeasures they HAVE TO know something, then they have proof.

If Rizzo was/is so worried about the integrity of the game, and the damage this could do, he should have spoke up. Whether the Nats were doing anything or not Rizzo comes across as being kind of a hypocrite and his words now sound a lot like 'piling on'..
 
BTW great discussion about this topic from everyone.

Lots of good knowledgeable baseball fans on this site. And this topic shows that.

5 weeks to the 1st game? I can't wait!!
 
SenorXm/Sirius said:
Nats flat out said they used countermeasures to stop Astros stealing of their signs.

Yet NO ONE from he Nats, or anyone else said a word until after Fiers spoke up.

If someone is using countermeasures they HAVE TO know something, then they have proof.

If Rizzo was/is so worried about the integrity of the game, and the damage this could do, he should have spoke up. Whether the Nats were doing anything or not Rizzo comes across as being kind of a hypocrite and his words now sound a lot like 'piling on'..
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They had suspicions. No proof. You are quite wrong about Rizzo.



[h=3]Against the Astros and their reputation, suspicious Nationals felt they had to assume the worst[/h]
“The way that it really erodes integrity of the game is tough,” Nationals closer Sean Doolittle said.

 
Jack Hays said:
They had suspicions. No proof. You are quite wrong about Rizzo.



[h=3]Against the Astros and their reputation, suspicious Nationals felt they had to assume the worst[/h]
“The way that it really erodes integrity of the game is tough,” Nationals closer Sean Doolittle said.
Click to expand...

I don't know how any billion $ organization could not have proof when what they were doing was so obvious. Again, people on Twitter outed the Astros. But the Nats, AND others didn't?

I don't believe that for a second.

Supposedly the Dodgers had proof in 2017.

Let's face it something smells really bad about this whole 'investigation' by the MLB.
 
SenorXm/Sirius said:
I don't know how any billion $ organization could not have proof when what they were doing was so obvious. Again, people on Twitter outed the Astros. But the Nats, AND others didn't?

I don't believe that for a second.

Supposedly the Dodgers had proof in 2017.

Let's face it something smells really bad about this whole 'investigation' by the MLB.
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Nope. Dodgers have said they had no proof.
 
And right after I wrote the above about this investigation smelling, this comes across my phone..

He describes the WS championship trophy as 'A piece of metal'?? Manfred showing contempt to the reporter who broke the code breaking story? Why? Because MLB's investigation was so poorly done the WS Journal had to do MLB's job for them.

I wonder if the same speech writer who wrote the Astros and Crane's lame apology wrote Manfred lame answers...?

Rob Manfred offers little insight, shows contempt for reporters in press conference..

Commissioner Rob Manfred spoke at a press conference, addressing the Astros cheating scandal and other topics on Sunday evening. It did not go well.

To start, the press conference was not broadcast officially on MLB’s own TV channel (it aired the 1988 movie Bull Durham instead), nor could any mention to it or link to the live stream be found anywhere on MLB.com. When the actual questions began, Manfred’s answers were circuitous or simply illogical given other comments he has made in the past. On more than one occasion, he showed contempt for reporters for doing their jobs — and, some might argue, doing his job — holding players and front office personnel accountable.

Last month, Jared Diamond of the Wall Street Journal broke a story about the Astros’ “dark arts” and “Codebreaker” operation, based on a letter Manfred sent to then-GM Jeff Luhnow. Diamond was among the reporters present for Manfred’s press conference on Sunday. Per The Athletic’s Lindsey Adler, Manfred addressed Diamond, saying, “You know, congratulations. You got a private letter that, you know, I sent to a club official. Nice reporting on your part.” MLB’s response to the depth of the Astros’ cheating ways was lacking and, without Diamond’s reporting, we would have known how deeply lacking that response was. It is understandable that Manfred would be salty about it, since it exposed him as doing his job poorly, but it was an immature, unrestrained response from someone in charge of the entire league.

Onto the actual topic at hand, Manfred said he felt like the punishment doled out to the Astros was enough. Per Chris Cotillo, Manfred said Astros players “have been hurt by this” and will forever be questioned about their achievements in 2017 and ’18. Some players disagree. Former pitcher Phil Hughes even suggested the players have a work stoppage over this issue.

Manfred defended his decision not to vacate the Astros’ championship, saying, “The idea of an asterisk or asking for a piece of metal back seems like a futile act.” The commissioner devaluing the meaning of a championship seems… not great? Counterintuitive, even? The “piece of metal” is literally called the Commissioner’s Trophy. Manfred went on to brag about the league having “the intestinal fortitude to share the results of that investigation, even when those results were not very pretty.” Be careful, don’t hurt yourself patting yourself on the back for doing the bare minimum.

cont..

Rob Manfred offers little insight, shows contempt for reporters in press conference
 
SenorXm/Sirius said:
And right after I wrote the above about this investigation smelling, this comes across my phone..

He describes the WS championship trophy as 'A piece of metal'?? Manfred showing contempt to the reporter who broke the code breaking story? Why? Because MLB's investigation was so poorly done the WS Journal had to do MLB's job for them.

I wonder if the same speech writer who wrote the Astros and Crane's lame apology wrote Manfred lame answers...?

Rob Manfred offers little insight, shows contempt for reporters in press conference..

Commissioner Rob Manfred spoke at a press conference, addressing the Astros cheating scandal and other topics on Sunday evening. It did not go well.

To start, the press conference was not broadcast officially on MLB’s own TV channel (it aired the 1988 movie Bull Durham instead), nor could any mention to it or link to the live stream be found anywhere on MLB.com. When the actual questions began, Manfred’s answers were circuitous or simply illogical given other comments he has made in the past. On more than one occasion, he showed contempt for reporters for doing their jobs — and, some might argue, doing his job — holding players and front office personnel accountable.

Last month, Jared Diamond of the Wall Street Journal broke a story about the Astros’ “dark arts” and “Codebreaker” operation, based on a letter Manfred sent to then-GM Jeff Luhnow. Diamond was among the reporters present for Manfred’s press conference on Sunday. Per The Athletic’s Lindsey Adler, Manfred addressed Diamond, saying, “You know, congratulations. You got a private letter that, you know, I sent to a club official. Nice reporting on your part.” MLB’s response to the depth of the Astros’ cheating ways was lacking and, without Diamond’s reporting, we would have known how deeply lacking that response was. It is understandable that Manfred would be salty about it, since it exposed him as doing his job poorly, but it was an immature, unrestrained response from someone in charge of the entire league.

Onto the actual topic at hand, Manfred said he felt like the punishment doled out to the Astros was enough. Per Chris Cotillo, Manfred said Astros players “have been hurt by this” and will forever be questioned about their achievements in 2017 and ’18. Some players disagree. Former pitcher Phil Hughes even suggested the players have a work stoppage over this issue.

Manfred defended his decision not to vacate the Astros’ championship, saying, “The idea of an asterisk or asking for a piece of metal back seems like a futile act.” The commissioner devaluing the meaning of a championship seems… not great? Counterintuitive, even? The “piece of metal” is literally called the Commissioner’s Trophy. Manfred went on to brag about the league having “the intestinal fortitude to share the results of that investigation, even when those results were not very pretty.” Be careful, don’t hurt yourself patting yourself on the back for doing the bare minimum.

cont..

Rob Manfred offers little insight, shows contempt for reporters in press conference
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He feels legally cornered by the MLBPA.
 
Jack Hays said:
Nope. Dodgers have said they had no proof.
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That's not what was reported by the MLB office right after this story broke..

And others---Including the Nats.. Even before 2017...

The world just learned of the Astros’ cheating. Inside baseball, it was an open secret.

“The whole industry knows they’ve been cheating their a---- off for three or four years,” said an executive from a team that faced the Astros in the playoffs during that span. “Everybody knew it.”

“It was a big open secret, really big,” said a veteran scout from another team whose coverage included the Astros. “Throughout baseball, throughout the scouting community, for several years, not just starting in 2017. I would say probably 2016, maybe earlier, through [2019], things were going on that were blatantly against the rules.”

Into this arena stepped the Nationals, appearing in the World Series for the first time in October. They entered the series as underdogs to 107-win Houston. But they came armed with two advantages: time to prepare, by virtue of their sweep of the St. Louis Cardinals in the National League Championship Series; and an entire sport that had a vested interest in having anyone but the Astros win the championship.

As one member of the Nationals put it, “It was amazing, once [it was assured] we were playing the Astros, how many people were coming out of the woodwork to let us know what they were doing.”

Many in baseball are asking why it took a whistleblower — Fiers, the former Astros pitcher — to spark MLB to action when so many people had suspected the Astros of wrongdoing for years, with some taking the extra step of reporting those suspicions to MLB.

“We investigate any allegation that’s brought to this office,” an MLB spokesman said Monday, declining to say how many of those allegations it received.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/mlb/astros-cheating-open-secret/2020/02/11/1830154c-4c41-11ea-9b5c-eac5b16dafaa_story.html

They knew, everyone knew..
 
SenorXm/Sirius said:
That's not what was reported by the MLB office right after this story broke..

And others---Including the Nats.. Even before 2017...

The world just learned of the Astros’ cheating. Inside baseball, it was an open secret.

“The whole industry knows they’ve been cheating their a---- off for three or four years,” said an executive from a team that faced the Astros in the playoffs during that span. “Everybody knew it.”

“It was a big open secret, really big,” said a veteran scout from another team whose coverage included the Astros. “Throughout baseball, throughout the scouting community, for several years, not just starting in 2017. I would say probably 2016, maybe earlier, through [2019], things were going on that were blatantly against the rules.”

Into this arena stepped the Nationals, appearing in the World Series for the first time in October. They entered the series as underdogs to 107-win Houston. But they came armed with two advantages: time to prepare, by virtue of their sweep of the St. Louis Cardinals in the National League Championship Series; and an entire sport that had a vested interest in having anyone but the Astros win the championship.

As one member of the Nationals put it, “It was amazing, once [it was assured] we were playing the Astros, how many people were coming out of the woodwork to let us know what they were doing.”

Many in baseball are asking why it took a whistleblower — Fiers, the former Astros pitcher — to spark MLB to action when so many people had suspected the Astros of wrongdoing for years, with some taking the extra step of reporting those suspicions to MLB.

“We investigate any allegation that’s brought to this office,” an MLB spokesman said Monday, declining to say how many of those allegations it received.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/mlb/astros-cheating-open-secret/2020/02/11/1830154c-4c41-11ea-9b5c-eac5b16dafaa_story.html

They knew, everyone knew..
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There's a difference between "knowing" and proving.
 
Jack Hays said:
There's a difference between "knowing" and proving.
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There a difference between one taking responsibility for their education, and requiring others to pull them towards truth before they are willing to learn. .

No wonder Americans are generally profoundly ignorant.
 
Hawkeye10 said:
There a difference between one taking responsibility for their education, and requiring others to pull them towards truth before they are willing to learn. .

No wonder Americans are generally profoundly ignorant.
Click to expand...

Not sure what point you're making.
 
Jack Hays said:
There's a difference between "knowing" and proving.
Click to expand...

So reporters, and people on Twitter, had/got the proof but the Nats, Dodgers, Yankees, etc. AND MLB didn't?

When these billion $ organizations had as a Nat put it, 'people were coming out of the woodwork' to warn us on what the Astros were doing, NONE of these teams or MLB could get proof?

I don't believe that's true or possible, but if it is true, that's pitiful and sad.
 
SenorXm/Sirius said:
So reporters, and people on Twitter, had/got the proof but the Nats, Dodgers, Yankees, etc. AND MLB didn't?

When these billion $ organizations had as a Nat put it, 'people were coming out of the woodwork' to warn us on what the Astros were doing, NONE of these teams or MLB could get proof?

I don't believe that's true or possible, but if it is true, that's pitiful and sad.
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No one had proof. They had suspicions.
 
Manfred and all of MLB better hope this doesn't get bigger.. They better hope it stops soon, because the more MLB talks the dumber and more incompetent they look.

Just a 'piece of metal'....And Manfred is the guy that's leading this investigation...

Justin Turner rips Rob Manfred like no player has ripped him yet.

“I don’t know if the commissioner has ever won anything in his life. Maybe he hasn’t. But the reason every guy’s in this room, the reason every guy is working out all offseason, and showing up to camp early and putting in all the time and effort is specifically for that trophy, which, by the way, is called the commissioner’s trophy.

“So for him to devalue it the way he did yesterday just tells me how out of touch he is with the players in this game. At this point the only thing devaluing that trophy is that it says ‘commissioner’ on it.”

cont...

Justin Turner rips Rob Manfred like no player has ripped him yet - HardballTalk | NBC Sports
 
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