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Thread: Major League Baseball 2020

  1. #141
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    Re: Major League Baseball 2020

    Quote Originally Posted by Threegoofs View Post
    If you want to go back to historical sign stealing - the first ever sign stealer to use electronics happened back in...

    1900.

    Check out page 52: http://research.sabr.org/journals/fi...Journal-20.pdf

    The Phillies had a third base coach that was getting signs from a telescope in CF and relayed to him by an electric buzzer in the ground. The tip was his leg would shake when he got a shock, and eventually they got suspicious and found a box with wires that went to CF.

    It’s been going on forever - the Cubs had a guy in the scoreboard in the 40s who relayed signs by crossing and uncrossing his legs, other teams have used a guy sitting in CF who would open a newspaper for a curve,etc.

    But those methods are illegal, and should be punished. As someone mentioned - the impacts are serious - you might have had a pitcher who’s only chance in the show was a decent outing against the Astros, and because of the cheating, he never got another chance in MLB. Yu Darvish may have lost millions because of his World Series Game 7 performance.
    And in 1 of baseballs most famous seasons which lead to maybe the most famous game there's this:

    NEW YORK — Stealing signals. Banging on a trash can. Beating the Dodgers in October.

    Sounds very familiar to Carl Erskine.

    “If they’re going to go back to 2017 with penalties for the Astros,” he said Wednesday, “then I want them to go all the way back to 1951 to help us.”

    The old Brooklyn pitcher was laughing. Sort of.

    Now 93, Erskine vividly recalled what — until this week — had been the biggest sign-stealing scandal in baseball history.

    Up by 13 1/2 games in mid-August, Jackie Robinson and the Dodgers seemed destined. That was until rookie Willie Mays and the New York Giants came flying back, fueled by an incredible, late run in home games at the Polo Grounds, and forced a best-of-three playoff for the National League pennant.

    Erskine was warming up in the Brooklyn bullpen in Game 3 when Bobby Thomson connected for the famed “Shot Heard ’Round the World,” a three-run homer in the bottom of the ninth off Ralph Branca that rallied the Giants to a 5-4 win.

    A half-century later, a giant secret was revealed: The Giants had rigged a spyglass-and-buzzer system in late July to steal catchers’ signals and tip off their hitters.

    “We thought something was going on, we were suspicious, but we couldn’t prove anything,” Erskine said from his home in Anderson, Indiana. “I remember Ralph said to me, ‘I bet those dirty birds are cheating.’”

    Herman Franks, a former Dodger who had become a Giants coach, was stationed in the home clubhouse, above the 483-foot mark in center field. From a darkened window, he spied on catchers with a telescope, then relayed the signs.

    When a buzzer rang in the New York bullpen — conveniently located in play back then, in deep right-center field — a Giants player who might waggle a white towel would signal to the hitter what kind of pitch was coming.

    “A batter wouldn’t even have to move his head,” Erskine said. “It was right over the pitcher’s left shoulder. Just shift your eyes to about 2 o’clock and you’d see it.”

    Several years after the scheme came to light, Erskine saw an obituary for Franks.

    “I emailed Ralph and said to him: ‘Old Giants never die, they just steal away,’” Erskine said.

    cont...

    Stolen away: Brooklyn Dodgers pitcher recalls 1951 sign-stealing scam | TribLIVE.com
    “If you can convince the lowest white man he’s better than the best colored man, he won’t notice you’re picking his pocket. Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he’ll empty his pockets for you.”
    President Lyndon Baines Johnson...

  2. #142
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    Re: Major League Baseball 2020

    Quote Originally Posted by SenorXm/Sirius View Post
    And in 1 of baseballs most famous seasons which lead to maybe the most famous game there's this:

    NEW YORK — Stealing signals. Banging on a trash can. Beating the Dodgers in October.

    Sounds very familiar to Carl Erskine.

    “If they’re going to go back to 2017 with penalties for the Astros,” he said Wednesday, “then I want them to go all the way back to 1951 to help us.”

    The old Brooklyn pitcher was laughing. Sort of.

    Now 93, Erskine vividly recalled what — until this week — had been the biggest sign-stealing scandal in baseball history.

    Up by 13 1/2 games in mid-August, Jackie Robinson and the Dodgers seemed destined. That was until rookie Willie Mays and the New York Giants came flying back, fueled by an incredible, late run in home games at the Polo Grounds, and forced a best-of-three playoff for the National League pennant.

    Erskine was warming up in the Brooklyn bullpen in Game 3 when Bobby Thomson connected for the famed “Shot Heard ’Round the World,” a three-run homer in the bottom of the ninth off Ralph Branca that rallied the Giants to a 5-4 win.

    A half-century later, a giant secret was revealed: The Giants had rigged a spyglass-and-buzzer system in late July to steal catchers’ signals and tip off their hitters.

    “We thought something was going on, we were suspicious, but we couldn’t prove anything,” Erskine said from his home in Anderson, Indiana. “I remember Ralph said to me, ‘I bet those dirty birds are cheating.’”

    Herman Franks, a former Dodger who had become a Giants coach, was stationed in the home clubhouse, above the 483-foot mark in center field. From a darkened window, he spied on catchers with a telescope, then relayed the signs.

    When a buzzer rang in the New York bullpen — conveniently located in play back then, in deep right-center field — a Giants player who might waggle a white towel would signal to the hitter what kind of pitch was coming.

    “A batter wouldn’t even have to move his head,” Erskine said. “It was right over the pitcher’s left shoulder. Just shift your eyes to about 2 o’clock and you’d see it.”

    Several years after the scheme came to light, Erskine saw an obituary for Franks.

    “I emailed Ralph and said to him: ‘Old Giants never die, they just steal away,’” Erskine said.

    cont...

    Stolen away: Brooklyn Dodgers pitcher recalls 1951 sign-stealing scam | TribLIVE.com
    Serious question: are jocks too dumb to create signs that would send the wrong signal to the batter if stolen? I can see warning a batter based on how the pitcher holds the ball. But, stealing a catcher's sign seems kind of self-defeating, especially if the battery change their code every inning.

    "First three pitches, my fingers mean nothing, look at how my glove is angled." That sort of thing would work like a champ, you would think.
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  3. #143
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    Re: Major League Baseball 2020

    Quote Originally Posted by calamity View Post
    Serious question: are jocks too dumb to create signs that would send the wrong signal to the batter if stolen? I can see warning a batter based on how the pitcher holds the ball. But, stealing a catcher's sign seems kind of self-defeating, especially if the battery change their code every inning.

    "First three pitches, my fingers mean nothing, look at how my glove is angled." That sort of thing would work like a champ, you would think.
    I promise this is the last time I bring up Bobby Valentine.. He was on the radio a couple of days ago, and he was great because he was honest as hell. lol

    Anyway he managed in Japan, he said sign stealing was so common and prevalent there that they would change signs every couple of days. Sometimes between double headers. TOTALLY change them. In the US, back when he managed? Only about 3-4 times a year. Now obviously they had special signs, etc. when runners were on 2nd base, so they would use them then, but those 'man on 2nd base' signs were the same signs used day after day, week after week. So it was pretty easy to catch on to some teams signs.

    More and more it seems many teams, AND now the MLB were just being lazy. 2-3 years ago MLB should have put a NFL QB type radio system in baseball. As the technology got better, and smaller it became much easier to hide, and cheat.

    This kind of stuff happening was inevitable.

    So either dumb or lazy.. Or both...
    Last edited by SenorXm/Sirius; 01-17-20 at 09:29 PM.
    “If you can convince the lowest white man he’s better than the best colored man, he won’t notice you’re picking his pocket. Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he’ll empty his pockets for you.”
    President Lyndon Baines Johnson...

  4. #144
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    Re: Major League Baseball 2020

    Quote Originally Posted by Hari Seldon View Post
    He's not a manager either. Who's next? Showalter? Sciosa?
    Dusty Baker. Gerritt Cole must be elated he left that sinking ship.
    Is it just me or is it getting crazier out there?”

  5. #145
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    Re: Major League Baseball 2020

    I don't know if I'd agree with the assessment that most/every teams are using technology to steal signs. I guess it depends on what you mean by 'technology'. Is watching a TV feed in the clubhouse but not communicating it in real time to a batter cheating? I dunno. But banging on trashcans or buzzing butt plugs seems like cheating to me.

    I read somewhere (although I did not independently verify) that Altuve's OPS at Minute Maid Park (where the Astros cheated) was something like double what it was on the road. That is just freaking ridiculous and indicates that MLBs punishments were not enough. The integrity of every game the Astros cheated in is in question.


    Quote Originally Posted by SenorXm/Sirius View Post
    As time goes on it's going to come out that virtually every team, if not every team was using 'technology' to steal signs. I'm sure this was an open secret throughout the league, no way 1 team is not going to cheat while knowing other teams are cheating. Not much different than the steroid era when everyone did it because they knew everyone else was doing it.

    The difference will be that no one cared, or will care if San Diego was stealing signs because they have stunk for years, while they will care about the Astros, Sox, Dodgers, Yankees, Cubs, Mets, etc..etc..etc..
    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hays View Post
    I disagree. I don't think most teams did this.

  6. #146
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    Re: Major League Baseball 2020

    Quote Originally Posted by TobyOne View Post
    I don't know if I'd agree with the assessment that most/every teams are using technology to steal signs. I guess it depends on what you mean by 'technology'. Is watching a TV feed in the clubhouse but not communicating it in real time to a batter cheating? I dunno. But banging on trashcans or buzzing butt plugs seems like cheating to me.

    I read somewhere (although I did not independently verify) that Altuve's OPS at Minute Maid Park (where the Astros cheated) was something like double what it was on the road. That is just freaking ridiculous and indicates that MLBs punishments were not enough. The integrity of every game the Astros cheated in is in question.
    But IIRC in the 2017 postseason almost all of the Astros 'splits'(average, OPS, etc) between the road and home games were higher on the road.

    So who knows.
    “If you can convince the lowest white man he’s better than the best colored man, he won’t notice you’re picking his pocket. Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he’ll empty his pockets for you.”
    President Lyndon Baines Johnson...

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    Re: Major League Baseball 2020


  8. #148
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    Re: Major League Baseball 2020

    Quote Originally Posted by TobyOne View Post
    I don't know if I'd agree with the assessment that most/every teams are using technology to steal signs. I guess it depends on what you mean by 'technology'. Is watching a TV feed in the clubhouse but not communicating it in real time to a batter cheating? I dunno. But banging on trashcans or buzzing butt plugs seems like cheating to me.

    I read somewhere (although I did not independently verify) that Altuve's OPS at Minute Maid Park (where the Astros cheated) was something like double what it was on the road. That is just freaking ridiculous and indicates that MLBs punishments were not enough. The integrity of every game the Astros cheated in is in question.
    Quote Originally Posted by SenorXm/Sirius View Post
    But IIRC in the 2017 postseason almost all of the Astros 'splits'(average, OPS, etc) between the road and home games were higher on the road.

    So who knows.
    And yet the Nats got all four of their World Series wins in Houston.
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