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Transgender male competing with women

Like I said, if I were a republican pining for office anywhere I would run all day on this platform. I can't see any other single issue that resonates pure unfairness that is bi-partisan accross the board in America. The fact that you haven't seen any republican's openly vowing to put a stop to this is worriysome to me. Either their too stupid, or, really just moronic. It's a politicians dream to come out for an issue that instantly gets you noticed and overwhelming support. What the hell is taking them so long? All they need to say is that "I'm for womens rights, and I vow to protect competitive female sports".. Boom, drop the mic, you've won your seat!


Tim-
 
Hicup said:
Like I said, if I were a republican pining for office anywhere I would run all day on this platform. I can't see any other single issue that resonates pure unfairness that is bi-partisan accross the board in America. The fact that you haven't seen any republican's openly vowing to put a stop to this is worriysome to me. Either their too stupid, or, really just moronic. It's a politicians dream to come out for an issue that instantly gets you noticed and overwhelming support. What the hell is taking them so long? All they need to say is that "I'm for womens rights, and I vow to protect competitive female sports".. Boom, drop the mic, you've won your seat!


Tim-
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Exactly. There is really no way to defend this. My daughter played on a boy's baseball team (outfield) until she was 13 years old. By then the boys were getting just too powerful to compete with. Better hitting, longer throws, faster base runners; she switched to girls softball as it had became available. Watching her try to slide into home against a boy much bigger and stronger than her was brutal. (At that time, over 20 years ago, they didn't have girls softball, only boys baseball).
 
Phys251 said:
How utterly predictable it is to see people who hate transgender people find an extremely rare issue where a trans person just might possibly maybe gain an advantage over their cis counterparts, and then proceed to freak out about this advantage.

But when it comes to the far bigger and far more common list of problems that trans women face--bullying, discrimination, suicide--what do we get from social conservatives? Deafening silence.
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Actually in my personal life I've had some very social conservatives stand up for me (And some **** on me...) the brush isn't as broad as you think anymore.
 
dirtpoorchris said:
So the solution to trans not feeling accepted, personally, is to make women feel not accepted in their own safe space?
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If we, the Transcommunity want respect from society, we have to show some back.
 
Renae said:
Actually in my personal life I've had some very social conservatives stand up for me (And some **** on me...) the brush isn't as broad as you think anymore.
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I'm very conservative, and think people have the right to any orientation they want. Probably most families in this country now have some minorities in the family, some gays, and maybe even some trans. So attitudes have changed. But I cannot see how it is fair for men to compete in women's sports. The physical differences are just a fact. No "training" will ever make them equal physically.
 
roughdraft274 said:
You don't have to be a transphobe to think that trans women shouldn't be competing with women.
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Yes, one does. It's a non-issue that only transphobes worry about.

It's like, "should we let gay people adopt?"
 
ecofarm said:
Yes, one does. It's a non-issue that only transphobes worry about.
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No, they don't. You're making completely unfounded assertions.

You don't get to just claim that everyone that disagrees with you suffers from an undiagnosed anxiety disorder.
 
roughdraft274 said:
No, they don't. You're making completely unfounded assertions.

You don't get to just claim that everyone that disagrees with you suffers from an undiagnosed anxiety disorder.
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It's not an issue if .0000001% of competitors are transgender. In the end, like all sports, commitment wins the day.

Only transphobes wring their hands.

This thread is a perfect example. Look around. You're in horrible company.
 
ecofarm said:
It's not an issue if .0000001% of competitors are transgender. In the end, like all sports, commitment wins the day.

Only transphobes wring their hands.

This thread is a perfect example. Look around. You're in horrible company.
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The number hardly determines whether it's an issue or not.

You can say commitment wins the day all you want. It's a simple biological fact that someone who was born a man and transitioned to female is going to almost always have an extensive edge over the women that she will be competing with. Likely even more of an edge than a woman would get from taking a round or two of steroids to get an edge.
 
roughdraft274 said:
The number hardly determines whether it's an issue or not.
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Yes, it does. It renders the issue insignificant. The only people wringing their hands are transphobes and this thread itself makes that abundantly clear.
 
ecofarm said:
Yes, it does. It renders the issue insignificant. The only people wringing their hands are transphobes and this thread itself makes that abundantly clear.
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I get your assertion that some people are just going to hate transpeople and bitch about them regardless. But even if some or even most of the people against transwomen competing with bio women are just asshole transphobes, it doesn't make them necessarily wrong when they say the transwoman has a decided biological advantage.

Out of sheer curiosity, and please don't think I'm saying this is something that is currently happening, just a hypothetical, if a man who has been training in an athletic sport that requires strength and speed figures out/decides that he is really a transwoman and starts transitioning and 3 months later starts competing against bio women, does that person have an advantage?
 
roughdraft274 said:
I get your assertion that some people are just going to hate transpeople and bitch about them regardless. But even if some or even most of the people against transwomen competing with bio women are just asshole transphobes, it doesn't make them necessarily wrong when they say the transwoman has a decided biological advantage.

Out of sheer curiosity, and please don't think I'm saying this is something that is currently happening, just a hypothetical, if a man who has been training in an athletic sport that requires strength and speed figures out/decides that he is really a transwoman and starts transitioning and 3 months later starts competing against bio women, does that person have an advantage?
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One out of a million competitors being transgender changes nothing. Success in athletics is about commitment. Plenty of smaller, weaker men reach the top tier of their sport. And what's more important, anyway, sports or society?


Save the evil transgender fantasies for the transphobes.
 
Outlook said:
NCAA track star CeCe Telfer was a successful competitor in men’s track a year ago, but not quite in the top tier.
However this year competing with the women, he/she is one of the best.
CeCe is ranked third in the country in the hurdles and seventh in the 200 yard dash.
She/he runs track for Franklin Pierce University and will be heading to the NCAA Championships.
Last Sunday at Smith College she/he took home three Northeast 10 Conference titles scoring 31.5 of the schools 49.5 points.

This appears to be an unfair physical advantage. Perhaps they should allow the girls on the team to take steroids.
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With this Leftist BS, women sports records are meaningless.

Three simple rules would solve the problem:
1. If you have a Y chromosome you compete as a man.
2. If you have two X chromosomes you compete as a woman.
3. If you are on steroids, hormones or any performance effecting drug, even for legit medical purposes you don’t compete at all.

Yes, this is unfair, but nothing ever created by humans will be 100% perfect or fair. But it is fair to the 99.99% affected.
 
One of my favorites was Fallon fox who was quite literally man handling women in the mma. Fallon had little skill and was simply able to overpower. It was almost as much fun as watching a husband smack his wife around.
 
roughdraft274 said:
I get your assertion that some people are just going to hate transpeople and bitch about them regardless. But even if some or even most of the people against transwomen competing with bio women are just asshole transphobes, it doesn't make them necessarily wrong when they say the transwoman has a decided biological advantage.

Out of sheer curiosity, and please don't think I'm saying this is something that is currently happening, just a hypothetical, if a man who has been training in an athletic sport that requires strength and speed figures out/decides that he is really a transwoman and starts transitioning and 3 months later starts competing against bio women, does that person have an advantage?
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Just ask him why, IF he was correct, are sports not integrated.
 
TU Curmudgeon said:
MAN = 5'3", 120#, sedentary

WOMAN = 6'2", 190#, triathlete.

Who is going to "cry foul" first?
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Why didn't you just include a Down's Syndrome man in a wheelchair?

Don't be obtuse.

Two serious triathletes of average size and ability, one born a man and one a woman. The man would DESTROY the woman.

If this isn't fixed soon, transsexuals will hold every female record and title in every sport.
 
ecofarm said:
Yes, it does. It renders the issue insignificant. The only people wringing their hands are transphobes and this thread itself makes that abundantly clear.
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I don't think bigotry is a proper replacement for rational discussion of a concern people have.
 
NiceGuyEddie said:
Yes. It's for the Greater-Good.
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Actually an even better solution is to adopt a general "WGAF" attitude.

Does it matter one bit to me if you are male? Nope.

Does it matter one bit to me if you are female? Nope.

Does it matter one bit to me if you are transgendered? Nope.

Does it matter one bit to me if you are homosexual? Nope.

Does it matter one bit to me if you are "Black"? Nope.

Does it matter one bit to me if you are "White"? Nope.

Does it matter one bit to me if you are ...

Does it matter to me WHAT YOU DO? Yes.

I suspect that you get my drift.
 
Waddy said:
Exactly. There is really no way to defend this. My daughter played on a boy's baseball team (outfield) until she was 13 years old. By then the boys were getting just too powerful to compete with. Better hitting, longer throws, faster base runners; she switched to girls softball as it had became available. Watching her try to slide into home against a boy much bigger and stronger than her was brutal. (At that time, over 20 years ago, they didn't have girls softball, only boys baseball).
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If your daughter had been bigger, stronger, fitter, and more skilled than any of the "boys" on the "Boys/ Baseball" team, would you have preferred her to have continued playing with the "boys'" team (which would have generated some significant prospect of a lucrative career) or would you have preferred her to have been "shifted" into "Girl's Softball"?
 
roughdraft274 said:
The number hardly determines whether it's an issue or not.

You can say commitment wins the day all you want. It's a simple biological fact that someone who was born a man and transitioned to female is going to almost always have an extensive edge over the women that she will be competing with. Likely even more of an edge than a woman would get from taking a round or two of steroids to get an edge.
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Quite right. It's perfectly obvious to anyone that a 5'3", 120#, male who transitions to female is going to have an extensive edge over any 6'2", 180#, female that they will be competing against after they have transitioned.

Well, isn't it?
 
ecofarm said:
I think we can all live with 1 out of 1000000 titles someday going to a transgender person. No sport or person will be ruined.
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you mean other than the girls that worked hard for scholarships that will now be going to mediocre male athletes instead.
 
ecofarm said:
I think we can all live with 1 out of 1000000 titles someday going to a transgender person. No sport or person will be ruined.
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But it will be ruined. It's not one out of a million. In many meets the top three places go to non females. How is that fair?

On the other hand, I doubt any transgender is going to be ruined if they don't get special treatment in women's sports.
 
roughdraft274 said:
I get your assertion that some people are just going to hate transpeople and bitch about them regardless. But even if some or even most of the people against transwomen competing with bio women are just asshole transphobes, it doesn't make them necessarily wrong when they say the transwoman has a decided biological advantage.
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Indeed they do have a point.

Of course someone who is born into socioeconomic circumstances which result in them being malnourished as a child will also be at a competitive disadvantage when competing against someone else who wasn't (even if their genetic makeup was identical).

Therefore the only "rational" solution is to divide all competitive sports into

  1. a male division and a female division; then further divide those divisions into
  2. weight/height classes; then further divide those classes into
  3. socioeconomic background classes; then further divide those classes into
  4. cultural classes.

That would mean that all competitions would be between people who were roughly equal.

That would then also mean that the #1 person in the "Inuit, poverty background, 100 - 125#, female, class" would be "just as good" as the #1 person in the "Caucasian, incredibly wealthy background, 225 - 250#, male, class".

Right?

roughdraft274 said:
Out of sheer curiosity, and please don't think I'm saying this is something that is currently happening, just a hypothetical, if a man who has been training in an athletic sport that requires strength and speed figures out/decides that he is really a transwoman and starts transitioning and 3 months later starts competing against bio women, does that person have an advantage?
Click to expand...

If you are talking about someone deliberately "changing gender" in order to make money out of sports, then I seriously doubt that it has happened. In fact, if that was the person's motivation for transitioning in the first place, I rather suspect that no (ethical) medical personnel would assist them to do so. (That, of course, doesn't mean that they might be able to find some UNethical medical personnel who would be willing to do so.)

However, you have raised an interesting question (and one that I really do not know the answer to) which is


On the assumption that transitioning from male to female DOES provide a competitive advantage at the time of transition, does the requisite medication regime mean that that competitive advantage would, over time, decrease to (more or less) next to nothing?
​
 
Casca XV said:
With this Leftist BS, women sports records are meaningless.

Three simple rules would solve the problem:
1. If you have a Y chromosome you compete as a man.
2. If you have two X chromosomes you compete as a woman.
3. If you are on steroids, hormones or any performance effecting drug, even for legit medical purposes you don’t compete at all.

Yes, this is unfair, but nothing ever created by humans will be 100% perfect or fair. But it is fair to the 99.99% affected.
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Not a bad idea, and no one with Klinefelter syndrome should be allowed to compete at all.

Right?
 
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