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Who's the Greatest Formula One Driver of all Time?

PeteEU said:
Yes, sorry if I have pure view of sports where cheating is not accepted... even if that cheating is technically legal, and is freaking obvious.
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Fair enough. As you wish.

But on that count, I would hold more to the physical athletic sports, as in football, soccer, etc, rather than a more technological sport, such as F1, where a lot about winning has to do with the team's budget.
 
Jack Hays said:
Because the poster did not nominate Rutherford as No. 1.
For the rest, I think driving skill transcends the evolving technical environment.
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You honestly think for example a Korea or Vietnam War ace's flying skills for example could be compared to a modern Ace's flying skills in a F22 or Sukhoi Su-35?

I'm outta here.
 
Infinite Chaos said:
You honestly think for example a Korea or Vietnam War ace's flying skills for example could be compared to a modern Ace's flying skills in a F22 or Sukhoi Su-35?

I'm outta here.
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My friends who have been combat pilots tell me flying skill transcends the level of technology. Good pilots of old would be good pilots today after they were trained on the new stuff. The younger fellows say the real question is whether they themselves would have been good enough in the old days without all the technological help.
 
Jack Hays said:
~ after they were trained on the new stuff ~
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The demands of the modern machines and complex technology outweigh simple transplanting of pilot skills. The ability to cope with all the information and tools produces a different kind of pilot and driver.

Jack Hays said:
~ The younger fellows say the real question is whether they themselves would have been good enough in the old days without all the technological help.
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Well if you use F1 as an example, we often see modern F1 drivers testing out older machines and driving them well.
 
Infinite Chaos said:
The demands of the modern machines and complex technology outweigh simple transplanting of pilot skills. The ability to cope with all the information and tools produces a different kind of pilot and driver.



Well if you use F1 as an example, we often see modern F1 drivers testing out older machines and driving them well.
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The population who can master complex technology vastly outnumbers the population with instinctive flying or driving skills.
 
Jack Hays said:
The population who can master complex technology vastly outnumbers the population with instinctive flying or driving skills.
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Yes, but the mistake is assuming that those who can master complex technology are always the same people who can do that in flying or racing machines.
 
PeteEU said:
Did not say it was against the rules.. said it was morally wrong the way that Schumacher did it.. in the first corner and being so freaking obvious about it. At least Senna and others have the decency to attempt to hide the act.
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Senna used Schumacher's tactics years before he came along.

He might have been a great driver, but he had zero sportsmanship.
 
There's no such thing the "best driver" in F1.

Some drivers were the best at strategy, some drivers had the best car control, some drivers were the best in poor conditions, etc.

Every generation of drivers also had different challenges to overcome. On the one hand drivers in the 60's and 70's had hazards todays drivers couldn't dream of, while drivers in the late 80's - early 2000's had to master technology and power to weight ratios their predecessors did not, so its never apples to apples.

One also has to look past the stats and see what a driver accomplished in relation to the circumstances he was in. As an example, Alonso is as skilled a driver as Vettel or Hamilton, even though he has far less trophies to show for it, and this also holds true when comparing Mansell to Senna, Piquet, and Prost.
 
Infinite Chaos said:
Yes, but the mistake is assuming that those who can master complex technology are always the same people who can do that in flying or racing machines.
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If you'll stop and think for a moment you'll realize you just made my point.
 
MovingPictures said:
~ Every generation of drivers also had different challenges to overcome. On the one hand drivers in the 60's and 70's had hazards todays drivers couldn't dream of, while drivers in the late 80's - early 2000's had to master technology and power to weight ratios their predecessors did not, so its never apples to apples ~
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Exactly my point. Who knows with the most current machines whether Fangio / Hill / Clark etc would be able to get their weight down to get into the new machines or even master the technology needed for the new machines.

Jack Hays said:
If you'll stop and think for a moment you'll realize you just made my point.
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Not really, because the point should and does work in reverse. We can't assume that those who can master the skill of flying or racing are always the same people who can do that in highly technical flying or racing machines.

Anyhow, this is one of those arguments down to personal view and not facts.
 
Schumacher and Senna were truly great drivers, but both came from the win-at-all-costs school of sportsmanship and when considering 'greatness' that marks them well down for me. The drivers who have given me great pleasure to watch them are people like Alain Prost, Damon Hill, Jacques Villeneuve and Mika Hakkinen. Of the current crop I like Danny Ricciardo most. I enjoy seeing Max Verstappen too, but that's because you never know what kind of mad moves he's going to make next. He could be a great driver in the future, but in the meantime he's just a great entertainer.
 
Jack Hays said:
A fine choice. Horribly burned at one point, IIRC.
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He just had a lung transplant last week, possibly as a consequence of that horrific accident decades ago in the seventies. Get well soon !

My choice would be Jim Clark, though drivers of today I liked Jenson Button and I've always had a soft spot (in a manly way!;) ) for Fernando Alonso.
 
I'm gonna jump into a discussion from a page or 2 back. A driver is a driver, regardless of the tool. The old school drivers would still be awesome with today's tech, if they grew up with it. What makes a great driver great has nothing to do with car. Everything to do with the person.
 
KevinKohler said:
~ if they grew up with it ~
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Exactly. That's the only condition I could ever agree Jack Hays' point from a few pages ago - they have to have grown up with and be competent with the technology.

There are plenty of examples of video of modern drivers testing out old F1 championship cars and doing well but we can't say for sure you could take Jim Clark out of his era and give him a modern F1 car with all the gizmos on the steering wheel to cope with and expect him to beat a Lewis Hamilton or Sebastian Vettel.

Andalublue said:
~ Jacques Villeneuve ~
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Have you lost your marbles? Villeneuve was blessed with a car hugely faster than anything else on the grid in his era.

There are some old school people I argue with all the time who swear Gilles Villeneuve was the greatest driver ever (because Enzo ferrari and a few others say so) but I can't agree either Villeneuve was brilliant.
 
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