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The Armstrong Lie (Sports Documentary)

Bodhisattva said:
Dude, they are ALL cheats... or at least were back then. That is why LeMond had to retire... he didn't dope and couldn't keep up with all those that did.
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And that is why I really like LeMond and the current American cyclists. And it is not like I just hate Armstrong, also hate Riis and all the top cyclists of that day and age.
 
Bodhisattva said:
There is only one race Americans, and most of the world care about... AT ALL. The Tour de France.
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Sure, but you should not. The Tour has been boring for years. I am a big fan of the Vuelta that will start this month. It is exiting, fun and not dominated by sprinters and a few teams who only focus all their energy on the Tour.
 
Bodhisattva said:
Peter is arguing that because Navratolova focused on and won Wimbledon more than any other tournament it makes her less of a champion. :lol:
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Yeah but that is nonsense, Navratilova won the US open several times, the Australian open several times and she also won the French open.

She also was great at other tournaments and won 177 tennis tournaments and did it mostly all by herself. She is a great athlete and a wonderful person who did not destroy loads of lives to cheat their way to Tour de France victories.
 
Peter King said:
And if you need to cheat to win, you really did not win.
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If you are not cheating you are not trying hard enough to win...

And that is why I really like LeMond and the current American cyclists. And it is not like I just hate Armstrong, also hate Riis and all the top cyclists of that day and age.
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I like them all...
 
Peter King said:
Sure, but you should not. The Tour has been boring for years. I am a big fan of the Vuelta that will start this month. It is exiting, fun and not dominated by sprinters and a few teams who only focus all their energy on the Tour.
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I just watched the Tour Of Utah and the Tour of Poland... they were alright. I like the TDF pretty much no matter what.
 
Bodhisattva said:
I just watched the Tour Of Utah and the Tour of Poland... they were alright. I like the TDF pretty much no matter what.
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Have you ever watched the Vuelta?
 
Peter King said:
That is nonsense, if you are cheating you will never be a winner in sports, just a sad sack of **** IMHO.
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It is my motto and something I teach all of my sports teams and children... and I won a lot.

I don't, I do not approve of cheating.
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I don't either... makes the competition better.

Have you ever watched the Vuelta?
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Not sure I have ever even heard of it...
 
Bodhisattva said:
It is my motto and something I teach all of my sports teams and children... and I won a lot.



I don't either... makes the competition better.



Not sure I have ever even heard of it...
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Peter King said:
And that is why I really like LeMond and the current American cyclists. And it is not like I just hate Armstrong, also hate Riis and all the top cyclists of that day and age.
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Are you absolutely sure that today's riders arent cheating? Because Im not. Remember that the organizers only started banning drugs in the mid 60's (but they still doped anyway) and prior to that anything was allowed. There were many stories of riders with ether-soaked handkerchiefs and snorting cocaine before they switched to steroids and stuff. Diarrhea was common while you were in the saddle.
 
PoS said:
Are you absolutely sure that today's riders arent cheating? Because Im not. Remember that the organizers only started banning drugs in the mid 60's (but they still doped anyway) and prior to that anything was allowed. There were many stories of riders with ether-soaked handkerchiefs and snorting cocaine before they switched to steroids and stuff. Diarrhea was common while you were in the saddle.
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I have no doubt Froome was doping in this year's TDF. He went from completely gassed and dropped on a hill to brand new rider after one rest day. That's physically impossible without help.
 
calamity said:
I have no doubt Froome was doping in this year's TDF. He went from completely gassed and dropped on a hill to brand new rider after one rest day. That's physically impossible without help.
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That proves nothing, you can get gassed due to loads of reasons and still be able to perform 2 or more days later.

For one thing cyclist often get "honger-klop" which is when they did not eat properly during the day and in the end stage they do not have the nutrients/energy left to follow in the footsteps of the attackers. Then there is the fact that some drivers are much better on hills that are consistently uphill at approximately the same percentage and cyclists that excel on mountains that are very much the opposite of a steady climb.

And what hill did he drop from? He was in the Yellow jersey for all but 6 days? And for 4 of those days he was second. And twice 6th. He was never below position six in the yellow jersey classification. He did not have a completely gassed day. When he lost his yellow jersey he only lost 22 seconds on Aru. The only possibly weaker day was when he lost a little under 2 minutes but that was not against people who were dangerous to him in the general classification, the biggest competitor Aru was in the same group as Froome.

Could you point to which stage this supposedly happened?

Ooh, and I do not like Froome one bit, I am a fan of other riders but as his urine and blood are tested really really often, so unless he has a magic way of fooling the new and much improved testing, he has not been caught doping as far as we know.
 
Peter King said:
That proves nothing, you can get gassed due to loads of reasons and still be able to perform 2 or more days later.

For one thing cyclist often get "honger-klop" which is when they did not eat properly during the day and in the end stage they do not have the nutrients/energy left to follow in the footsteps of the attackers. Then there is the fact that some drivers are much better on hills that are consistently uphill at approximately the same percentage and cyclists that excel on mountains that are very much the opposite of a steady climb.

And what hill did he drop from? He was in the Yellow jersey for all but 6 days? And for 4 of those days he was second. And twice 6th. He was never below position six in the yellow jersey classification. He did not have a completely gassed day. When he lost his yellow jersey he only lost 22 seconds on Aru. The only possibly weaker day was when he lost a little under 2 minutes but that was not against people who were dangerous to him in the general classification, the biggest competitor Aru was in the same group as Froome.

Could you point to which stage this supposedly happened?

Ooh, and I do not like Froome one bit, I am a fan of other riders but as his urine and blood are tested really really often, so unless he has a magic way of fooling the new and much improved testing, he has not been caught doping as far as we know.
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On one climb to the finish line he lost over 20 seconds in the final 400 meters. I recorded it in that TDF thread no one cared about.

Froome is doping. It's obvious as hell. He was gassed and looked done. Then, he took a rest day and came back to dominate the second half of the tour. Hell, he even dropped his own team during a few stages. That's dope.


Don't be a homer. If you "know" Armstrong was doping, you should at least see that Froome is doping too. They both exhibit the same performances.

Contador was clean this year--at least for the most part. How do I know? His performance showed it. He got tired when he was supposed to, and he didn't have any miracle come back efforts. Froome got stronger as the tour went on. You don't get that from just eating spaghetti and some sleep.
 
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calamity said:
Contador was clean this year--at least for the most part. How do I know? His performance showed it. He got tired when he was supposed to, and he didn't have any miracle come back efforts. Froome got stronger as the tour went on. You don't get that from just eating spaghetti and some sleep.
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Contador doped as much as Lance did and he is still cycling professionally. His own country rallied around him too. What a joke pro cycling is.

As far as doping goes, Im pretty sure they developed new forms of doping to beat the current tests. Its a never ending see-saw battle between new drugs and new tests.
 
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calamity said:
On one climb to the finish line he lost over 20 seconds in the final 400 meters. I recorded it in that TDF thread no one cared about.

Froome is doping. It's obvious as hell. He was gassed and looked done. Then, he took a rest day and came back to dominate the second half of the tour. Hell, he even dropped his own team during a few stages. That's dope.


Don't be a homer. If you "know" Armstrong was doping, you should at least see that Froome is doping too. They both exhibit the same performances.

Contador was clean this year--at least for the most part. How do I know? His performance showed it. He got tired when he was supposed to, and he didn't have any miracle come back efforts. Froome got stronger as the tour went on. You don't get that from just eating spaghetti and some sleep.
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20 seconds is nothing, that is not getting gassed, that is just not being able to handle the acceleration some other cyclist was able to achieve.

As a cyclist fan, of close to 40 years, that is not indicative of doping, that is indicative of one cyclist being able to place a jump on another cyclist. Sorry but that is just totally untrue as evidence of doping. As written before, cyclists have favorite climbs and favorite styles. Some cyclists love to place an explosive jump and others are much better at setting a constant but very high speed but are unable to respond to rapid attacks.

Maybe Froome dopes, who knows but his blood and urine samples do not prove that at all.

And of course he is going to drop most (not all) of his team, they flew up mountain after mountain for him letting him save his energy for the final climb and the final push. You cannot as a team cycle 95% to either catch up on escaped drivers or keep the peleton together so none of Froome's opponents could take time on Froome.

And a lot of good drivers get better during the Tour because they are conditioned to do so.
 
Peter King said:
20 seconds is nothing, that is not getting gassed, that is just not being able to handle the acceleration some other cyclist was able to achieve.

As a cyclist fan, of close to 40 years, that is not indicative of doping, that is indicative of one cyclist being able to place a jump on another cyclist. Sorry but that is just totally untrue as evidence of doping. As written before, cyclists have favorite climbs and favorite styles. Some cyclists love to place an explosive jump and others are much better at setting a constant but very high speed but are unable to respond to rapid attacks.

Maybe Froome dopes, who knows but his blood and urine samples do not prove that at all.

And of course he is going to drop most (not all) of his team, they flew up mountain after mountain for him letting him save his energy for the final climb and the final push. You cannot as a team cycle 95% to either catch up on escaped drivers or keep the peleton together so none of Froome's opponents could take time on Froome.

And a lot of good drivers get better during the Tour because they are conditioned to do so.
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20 seconds in 400 meters? Dude, think about that. There were barely 20 seconds between the leaders for most of the 80 hours of racing. :roll:
 
Peter King said:
Maybe Froome dopes, who knows but his blood and urine samples do not prove that at all.
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LOL with that kind of logic it would mean that Lance Armstrong never doped since his tests during the times he won 7 TDF were negative as well. :lol:
 
calamity said:
20 seconds in 400 meters? Dude, think about that. There were barely 20 seconds between the leaders for most of the 80 hours of racing. :roll:
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That is how cycling works, it has always worked like that especially in the mountain stages. To make that something suspect is nonsensical. You can loose a minute in 400 meters on the top of a mountain. That is how climbing works, if you are explosive on a mountain with 20% gradient in the last mile, you can win a minute or two with quite ease.
 
PoS said:
LOL with that kind of logic it would mean that Lance Armstrong never doped since his tests during the times he won 7 TDF were negative as well. :lol:
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The tests of this day and age a much better.
 
Peter King said:
The tests of this day and age a much better.
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Riight. Believe what you want. The fact that they were able to cheat on the tests before means they can find another way to do it again.
 
Peter King said:
That is how cycling works, it has always worked like that especially in the mountain stages. To make that something suspect is nonsensical. You can loose a minute in 400 meters on the top of a mountain. That is how climbing works, if you are explosive on a mountain with 20% gradient in the last mile, you can win a minute or two with quite ease.
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Watch the clip in the thread I mentioned earlier. It's obvious that Froome was done. And, then---a miralcle occurs, he's dominant in every stage from there on out.
 
PoS said:
Riight. Believe what you want. The fact that they were able to cheat on the tests before means they can find another way to do it again.
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Right, and you can believe what you want too, fact is that testing is miles ahead of what it was in Armstrong's cycling days.
 
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