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LeBron GOAT or Meh

Nilly said:
The standard of basketball (like in any sport) has improved immensely since 20-30 years ago.

As great as Jordan, Magic, Bird, Barkley etc etc etc were I really think that Lebron, Westbrook, Harden, Curry, would run rings around them if they both played at peak conditions. And in 30 years time I think we'll have players that eclipse those of today.

If you want to define GOAT in terms of pure basketball skill and athleticism then James has it. If you want to define GOAT in the context of a players own era, then I think it's a tougher ask.
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That's where I sit on this. Comparing different eras isn't a very fair comparison. Skill almost always goes up over time.
 
Fishking said:
That's where I sit on this. Comparing different eras isn't a very fair comparison. Skill almost always goes up over time.
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That's why I went with who could be stopped. Detroit straight up stopped Jordan. So far, no one has stopped LeBron. Few have even slowed him down.

But, to be fair, Jordan didn't lay an egg against Detroit. He always took his team to 7th games. He just fell short. LeBron has fallen short too. So...tough call. From what I can tell, no one took LeBron or Jordan out of the game and kept them down to the human numbers level. Jordan always got his 30. And, LBJ always hit high twenties with 7 assists and 8 or 9 boards.

Edit:
Jordan in playoffs: 33.4 pts, 5.7 ast, 6.4 boards, 2.1 steals and 0.9 blks
LeBron in playoffs: 28.2 pts, 6.8 ast, 8,8 boards, 1.8 steals and 1.0 blks

Damn tight.
 
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calamity said:
If by some miracle, LeBron continues to average over 30 points per game and beats the Warriors with Durant, he'll seal the deal as GOAT. Has to.
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He's only averaging 27 points a game. Jordan averaged 30.
 
RetiredUSN said:
Let's see Lebron have his way with the likes of a Moses Malone in the paint back when putting a body on someone was part of the game.

He's a top 5 at best. A bull playing in a league full of China Dolls.
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One of the problems with comparing past and present players in any sport is that players from different eras have to deal with different rules and competition.
 
calamity said:
Even Shaq needed Kobie to win 3 straight. Jordan's Rodman-version Bulls swept the Magic when it was Shaq and Penny Hardaway, who is no slouch. Houston beat them too the year before.
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You know what those other players can still say? That they won 3 straight. Lebron purposefully made a super team in Miami and couldn't do it, so it's not like he didn't have the opportunity to play on a powerhouse team with other league stars.
 
calamity said:
That's why I went with who could be stopped. Detroit straight up stopped Jordan. So far, no one has stopped LeBron. Few have even slowed him down.

But, to be fair, Jordan didn't lay an egg against Detroit. He always took his team to 7th games. He just fell short. LeBron has fallen short too. So...tough call. From what I can tell, no one took LeBron or Jordan out of the game and kept them down to the human numbers level. Jordan always got his 30. And, LBJ always hit high twenties with 7 assists and 8 or 9 boards.

Edit:
Jordan in playoffs: 33.4 pts, 5.7 ast, 6.4 boards, 2.1 steals and 0.9 blks
LeBron in playoffs: 28.2 pts, 6.8 ast, 8,8 boards, 1.8 steals and 1.0 blks

Damn tight.
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Look at all-time career points.
 
Fishking said:
You know what those other players can still say? That they won 3 straight. Lebron purposefully made a super team in Miami and couldn't do it, so it's not like he didn't have the opportunity to play on a powerhouse team with other league stars.
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With a win tonight, he'll have gone to 7 straight NBA Finals, 8 total--four with a team that never even sniffed one before. In the last 10 years, 80% of the time he ended up in the championship round.

That's more impressive than 3 straight wins, IMO.

Why?

Because four modern stars have three straight rings, two of them did it twice. But no one since the days of Russell have gone to more than 8 finals before, and certainly not 7 straight.
 
Fishking said:
Look at all-time career points.
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NBA regular season has become a joke. Accomplishments there mean nothing. Warriors proved that last year.
 
calamity said:
NBA regular season has become a joke. Accomplishments there mean nothing. Warriors proved that last year.
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Regular season is the backbone of any sport. Just because playoffs don't always turn out what is predicted doesn't mean much. It's only a few games vs the many during the season. You're also contradicting your own OP where you downplay the emphasis of the playoff victories and play up doing the work to even get a sub-par team to the playoffs, which is the regular season.
 
Fishking said:
Regular season is the backbone of any sport. Just because playoffs don't always turn out what is predicted doesn't mean much. It's only a few games vs the many during the season. You're also contradicting your own OP where you downplay the emphasis of the playoff victories and play up doing the work to even get a sub-par team to the playoffs, which is the regular season.
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I guess my point was more or less to draw attention to the fact that the regular season meant much more in the past than it seems to today. In fact, I do not remember a time when the regular season and first two rounds of the playoffs had less meaning than they have these past 4 or 5 years or so. Maybe, three years ago, the Cavs, in the first LeBron returns year, were a bit of a surprise. But, the past two years, everyone knew we would be seeing GS and Cleveland in the finals before the season even began. And, those SA versus Miami years before LBJ left the Heat were no different. OKC came in as a surprise once. But, damn. That feels like it was eons ago.
 
NBA Playoffs Tales of woe LeBron's defeated foes

It's a bit smaltzy, but a few good points are made.

2007
"I didn't realize until then what he'd done to us," Billups said. "I sat there and watched it and I said to myself, 'He's figured it out.' I figured it out, too. I knew we were going to be done, it was the start of the end for us."

A year later Billups was traded and the breakup of the Pistons, who won the title in 2004 and made six consecutive conference finals appearances, was officially underway. They haven't recovered since.
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2017
"It's real frustrating to continue on losing to the same team or the same person. It's real frustrating," Indiana Pacers star Paul George said in April after being eliminated for the fourth time in the past six years by James.
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