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Nfl 2017 [W:1941,2227]

CanadaJohn said:
I could be wrong, but it's my recollection that Elliot was charged by the police, however, the prosecutors dropped the charges because they felt there was no reasonable expectation of getting a conviction. That doesn't mean that Elliot did or didn't assault this woman - it simply means that the prosecutors felt it was unlikely that they would be able to prove, beyond a reasonable doubt, that he did assault her and get a judge or jury to convict.

As for Jerry Jones; seriously, why would anyone take his word over the word of anyone else. Jerry Jones was a great supporter and proponent of Goodell as commissioner of the league, particularly from the beginning when Goodell, as an official in the NFL's league offices, was instrumental in helping Jones get funding/financing/permits etc. for Jerry's World to be built in Dallas - Jones proposed Goodell for the job when it came open. Now, when Goodell rules in a way that Jones doesn't like, suddenly Goodell is the anti-Christ. The rest of the league owners are basically telling Jones to bugger off, as they should.
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The simple fact is that every investigation that has concluded the witness was not credible. Yes...the police recieved the allegations and investigated but the charges were dropped...because the witness was found to have been dishonest. the NFLs investigator conducted 6 interviews and came to the same conclusion. So what we have now is that a man has been placed on a 6 game suspension by the league commissioner, regardless of the fact...fact...that no one finds the accuser credible. Think about that. Personalize that for a second. what if it is someone from your past that were leveling accusations that you had no defense against because no matter what, you were already presumed guilty.
 
CanadaJohn said:
I could be wrong, but it's my recollection that Elliot was charged by the police, however, the prosecutors dropped the charges because they felt there was no reasonable expectation of getting a conviction. That doesn't mean that Elliot did or didn't assault this woman - it simply means that the prosecutors felt it was unlikely that they would be able to prove, beyond a reasonable doubt, that he did assault her and get a judge or jury to convict.

As for Jerry Jones; seriously, why would anyone take his word over the word of anyone else. Jerry Jones was a great supporter and proponent of Goodell as commissioner of the league, particularly from the beginning when Goodell, as an official in the NFL's league offices, was instrumental in helping Jones get funding/financing/permits etc. for Jerry's World to be built in Dallas - Jones proposed Goodell for the job when it came open. Now, when Goodell rules in a way that Jones doesn't like, suddenly Goodell is the anti-Christ. The rest of the league owners are basically telling Jones to bugger off, as they should.
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Go back to the Tom Brady incident. 1-is there any question the league knew about and let the teams adjust footballs for YEARS? Hell...it was called The Manning Rule for a reason. 2-The league decided to go on a witch hunt rather than just first, tell the Colts to eat a dick...they got thoroughly destroyed and their whining just made them look like bitches and second, acknowledged that the league bears responsibility for giving the teams footballs and letting them adjust them to QB specific needs. 3-The League could have said...OK...we will control all the footballs from now on. But instead it became a witch hunt with ultimately, no proof and after reading the pressures actually measured on the actual footballs...no real evidence of ANYTHING. But Goodell had to show how important he was. Thats why when the Pats won the Superbowl the following year it was such a wonderful gigantic **** YOU to Goodell.

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SenorXm/Sirius said:
I DO NOT care what the police found. This isn't a court of law. THERE IS NO INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY!!!!
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I think he was referring to the NFL's own investigator, not the police investigator. Don't you think it's odd that the NFL concluded the witness was not credible, but then went on to punish Elliot anyway based on things that same un-credible witness had claimed?

I also think it's relevant to consider why everyone determined she was not credible. There are text messages between her and a friend where they discuss blackmailing Elliot to make him pay $10k - $100k or else they'll release a sex tape to the public. Her DV claims against him may be true, or they may be false as an attempt to get him to settle out of court or something. The prior calls to police might've been just building up the story. I hate DV as much as anyone, but I can't bring myself to trust someone who would consider blackmail against their romantic partner, or anyone for that matter.
 
Looks like Kam Chancellor is out for the year. Possibly for good. Wow. How bad does that suck?
 
CanadaJohn said:
Hard to claim the AFC is weak when it has a couple of the league's best teams. The Eagles are playing very well, but they're the Eagles - I'll believe they're for real when they do something in the playoffs. New Orleans is on a roll, but really, who have they beaten? The Rams are hot, but again, who have they beaten? The rest of the "powers" in the NFC are all damaged goods in one way or another.

The two best teams in the AFC, New England and Pittsburgh, are sneaky good right now and getting better. The Steelers, before last night, had played 6 0f 9 games on the road, going 5-1, for a team that everyone on this board seems to think can't win on the road because Big Ben is terrible on the road. But there's two sides to the game and the Steelers currently have the best defense in football. And we just saw last night how dynamic the Steelers offense can be at home and they've now got 4 of 6 at home to end the season, realistically going 13-3 if not 14-2. Steelers only remaining tough game is against New England at home, perhaps a preview of the AFC Championship game. As for New England, their much maligned defense has been pretty damn good the past 5 games, giving up far fewer points.

Most of the "power" teams in the NFC have inexperienced QBs with the exceptions of New Orleans and Seattle, neither of which really scares either the Steelers or the Patriots. Because the NFC is relatively mediocre, it's hard to say who will come out of there to the Super Bowl.

I'm obviously biased, but I'm feeling pretty good about Big Ben getting his third title this year, maybe as a swan song for a super career.
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With the remaining schedule of the Steelers, I have them as the top seed. Everyone brags on the Pat's offense, but it lacks the easy consistency it's had in the past 4-5 years.

Slight edge to the Steelers.
 
Top Cat said:
Looks like Kam Chancellor is out for the year. Possibly for good. Wow. How bad does that suck?
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Next man up. Every team goes through injuries. The good teams overcome them and the bad teams make excuses.
 
Bucky said:
Next man up. Every team goes through injuries. The good teams overcome them and the bad teams make excuses.
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Seattle just lost two all pros in a week. And yet no one has made any excuses or brought up excuses except you.
 
Top Cat said:
Seattle just lost two all pros in a week. And yet no one has made any excuses or brought up excuses except you.
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LOL!

The Patriots lost their best defender, Donte Hightower... again next man up.

If I had to guess, the Seahawks will not overcome these losses.
 
Bucky said:
LOL!

The Patriots lost their best defender, Donte Hightower... again next man up.

If I had to guess, the Seahawks will not overcome these losses.
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You might be right. Even a broken clock is right twice a day.
 
VanceMack said:
The simple fact is that every investigation that has concluded the witness was not credible. Yes...the police recieved the allegations and investigated but the charges were dropped...because the witness was found to have been dishonest. the NFLs investigator conducted 6 interviews and came to the same conclusion. So what we have now is that a man has been placed on a 6 game suspension by the league commissioner, regardless of the fact...fact...that no one finds the accuser credible. Think about that. Personalize that for a second. what if it is someone from your past that were leveling accusations that you had no defense against because no matter what, you were already presumed guilty.
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I could be wrong again, but has Moore in Alabama been charged or convicted? I don't think so, but the public wants him to withdraw from the race. Has Harvey Weinstein been charged with anything? I don't think so, but his company fired him and many businesses have disowned him. I could go on with additional examples. The simple fact, actually, is that Elliot had/has embarrassed the league by his behavior, and that is against the conduct rules of the NFL. Maybe you or I don't like those rules, but they exist and the rules also provide the Commissioner with the sole authority to administer discipline as he sees fit. The simple fact is that those rules are the reason why the courts have upheld the NFL suspensions in this and the Brady case.

Your comments with respect to what if it was me, I can assure you that I would be subjected to whatever penalty my employer felt like levelling. Like it or not, and employer can generally fire or discipline an employee for any action that puts the employer in a bad light with their customers.
 
CanadaJohn said:
I could be wrong again, but has Moore in Alabama been charged or convicted? I don't think so, but the public wants him to withdraw from the race. Has Harvey Weinstein been charged with anything? I don't think so, but his company fired him and many businesses have disowned him. I could go on with additional examples. The simple fact, actually, is that Elliot had/has embarrassed the league by his behavior, and that is against the conduct rules of the NFL. Maybe you or I don't like those rules, but they exist and the rules also provide the Commissioner with the sole authority to administer discipline as he sees fit. The simple fact is that those rules are the reason why the courts have upheld the NFL suspensions in this and the Brady case.

Your comments with respect to what if it was me, I can assure you that I would be subjected to whatever penalty my employer felt like levelling. Like it or not, and employer can generally fire or discipline an employee for any action that puts the employer in a bad light with their customers.
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The NFL is not his employer. The Cowboys are his employer. The commissioner sits as judge jury and executioner with the apparently ability to suspend people for no supported cause.
 
VanceMack said:
The NFL is not his employer. The Cowboys are his employer. The commissioner sits as judge jury and executioner with the apparently ability to suspend people for no supported cause.
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The NFLPA agreed to his authorities.
 
VanceMack said:
The NFL is not his employer. The Cowboys are his employer. The commissioner sits as judge jury and executioner with the apparently ability to suspend people for no supported cause.
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The NFL is a franchise. The players maybe on the local 'team', which hires them. But he signs his contract with the NFL.

And because you seem to ignore this point, this is the LAST time I will say this, but the Owners AND the Players Union AGREED to Goodell's powers.

If they don't like it they need to change it. Until then? Too bad for them.
 
SenorXm/Sirius said:
The NFL is a franchise. The players maybe on the local 'team', which hires them. But he signs his contract with the NFL.

And because you seem to ignore this point, this is the LAST time I will say this, but the Owners AND the Players Union AGREED to Goodell's powers.

If they don't like it they need to change it. Until then? Too bad for them.
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The whole thrust of current conversation is owners deciding they have had enough of Goodell and are working to change it. When the man has taken the recommendations and advice of his own investigative team and completely disregarded it and levied a punishment for which there is no foundation, thats a problem.
 
VanceMack said:
The whole thrust of current conversation is owners deciding they have had enough of Goodell and are working to change it. When the man has taken the recommendations and advice of his own investigative team and completely disregarded it and levied a punishment for which there is no foundation, thats a problem.
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You think so? It looks to me like owners are 31-1 in favor of Goodell.
 
Jack Hays said:
You think so? It looks to me like owners are 31-1 in favor of Goodell.
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We'll see. And that will probably change the second he makes an arbitrary decision without foundation regarding a player on their team.
 
VanceMack said:
We'll see. And that will probably change the second he makes an arbitrary decision without foundation regarding a player on their team.
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His contract comes up in 18 months, we'll see then.

And if there is any owner who should be more pissed off than Jones, it's Kraft. Before the defaltegate mess blew up Kraft paid a million in fines and lost draft choices. He 'thought' the deflategate business was over, and 'maybe' Brady would get a 1 games suspension. So in spite of the deal Kraft thought he had with Goodell a 4 games suspension came down.

Anyway it seems that in spite of all of that Kraft is firmly in Goodells corner. Maybe he isn't, but I haven't heard anything otherwise.
 
VanceMack said:
We'll see. And that will probably change the second he makes an arbitrary decision without foundation regarding a player on their team.
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Both sides, Goodell & owners, want him to stay through negotiation of the next labor agreement. He has already said he wants out after that.
 
Jack Hays said:
Both sides, Goodell & owners, want him to stay through negotiation of the next labor agreement. He has already said he wants out after that.
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seems an unwise strategy to me, having as the negotiator someone who will not have to deal with the result of what he negotiated

after Obama was elected, prior to his inauguration, team dubya conceded about every matter in which it was negotiating with our federal employees' union council. they saw doing so as a way to handicap Obama's incoming administration
 
justabubba said:
seems an unwise strategy to me, having as the negotiator someone who will not have to deal with the result of what he negotiated

after Obama was elected, prior to his inauguration, team dubya conceded about every matter in which it was negotiating with our federal employees' union council. they saw doing so as a way to handicap Obama's incoming administration
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I doubt they did it to handicap anyone. That was not their practice in any other area. More likely they were in touch with the incoming BHO team and deferred to their preferences.
 
Jack Hays said:
I doubt they did it to handicap anyone. That was not their practice in any other area. More likely they were in touch with the incoming BHO team and deferred to their preferences.
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i disagree. they were absolutely dug in on the issues until they saw a republican would not prevail. then they rolled over. in unattributable conversations they acknowledged wanting team Obama to have to find the $7.6 million award they signed off on because it it was unbudgeted. those award monies would have to be found by reducing other previously budgeted operations expenses. that is but a singular (expensive) example
 
justabubba said:
i disagree. they were absolutely dug in on the issues until they saw a republican would not prevail. then they rolled over. in unattributable conversations they acknowledged wanting team Obama to have to find the $7.6 million award they signed off on because it it was unbudgeted. those award monies would have to be found by reducing other previously budgeted operations expenses. that is but a singular (expensive) example
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But I suspect they knew the BHO folks would want to give out the award anyway. Of course they were dug in until they knew a Repub would not prevail, then they conceded. That's simply good government. In the example I know best, they structured the plan for US forces in Iraq explicitly to allow the new administration freedom of action without tying their hands. We are way off topic, so I'm going to cease.
 
PoS said:
LOL word is Jerry will get fined for detrimental conduct, perhaps losing a draft pick.

Way We Hear It: Dallas Cowboys could face draft-pick punishment (or worse) for Jerry Jones | Pro Football Weekly
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A few weeks ago Jones said he had what? 17 owners in his corner? If this article is true and they are going to punish him, I guess he doesn't have 17.

It sure looks like Jerry was shoveling the old horse manure, yet again.

Edit: Seriously, for years Jones was in Goodells corner when he dealt out punishment to other teams players, including to F'ed up mess of deflategate. Jones had no problems with Goodell then. But now he's going to go to war because 1 of Jerry's players is being suspended? That's about as self-serving as someone can be. I doubt many of the other owners are going to be on his side now.
 
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