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Major League Baseball 2017

Jack Hays said:
I think $1M would have sent a nice message.
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And I think teams have budgets, league has rules and the MLBPA agreed to them. He's lucky he got a $100k bump.
 
Syndergaard is a 6'6", 20 some year old with long blonde hair with a nickname of Thor who plays baseball in NYC. He's made for Madison Avenue.

I don't know for sure but I'd bet his endorsement money has already gone well north of $600k.

BUT I can see his, and deGrom's and other younger MLB players gripe with the current pay structure in MLB for younger players. deGrom was the ace for the Mets in 2015, helped them get to the WS, he pitched in the All-Star game and struck out 3 AL All-Stars on 10 pitches. But at the end of the year he had no control over his 'raise', or contract. Quite the difference with football and basketball where kids coming out of HS can and do get HUGE multi-year million $ contracts.
 
SenorXm/Sirius said:
Syndergaard is a 6'6", 20 some year old with long blonde hair with a nickname of Thor who plays baseball in NYC. He's made for Madison Avenue.

I don't know for sure but I'd bet his endorsement money has already gone well north of $600k.

BUT I can see his, and deGrom's and other younger MLB players gripe with the current pay structure in MLB for younger players. deGrom was the ace for the Mets in 2015, helped them get to the WS, he pitched in the All-Star game and struck out 3 AL All-Stars on 10 pitches. But at the end of the year he had no control over his 'raise', or contract. Quite the difference with football and basketball where kids coming out of HS can and do get HUGE multi-year million $ contracts.
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Usually, these guys have pocketed a big signing bonus (syndegaard got $600k), so it's not like they are paupers, although deGrom only got about $85k.


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Threegoofs said:
Usually, these guys have pocketed a big signing bonus (syndegaard got $600k), so it's not like they are paupers, although deGrom only got about $85k.


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Oh yeah. And once they become free agents the contracts in baseball are MUCH better and sweeter than it is in the other sports. So I DO NOT feel sorry for Sydergaard, deGrom, or any of them. They will make their money, GUARANTEED money.

But I can see them protesting a little. It does suck that even it they are a staff's Ace, and have a great year that they have no control or say in their salaries or contracts.
 
SenorXm/Sirius said:
Oh yeah. And once they become free agents the contracts in baseball are MUCH better and sweeter than it is in the other sports. So I DO NOT feel sorry for Sydergaard, deGrom, or any of them. They will make their money, GUARANTEED money.

But I can see them protesting a little. It does suck that even it they are a staff's Ace, and have a great year that they have no control or say in their salaries or contracts.
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That's the point I was making. Every pitcher, #1-#5, or fielder gets paid at a fixed rate for their first 3 years because they are cost control which allows MLB teams to keep salary budgets lower. If he pitches like he did in 2016 for the next two years. He'll get a hefty pay date in Arb. Just as Chris Tillman did, he went from $540,000 to $4.3m or Manny Machado who went from $548,000 to $5m.
 
SenorXm/Sirius said:
Oh yeah. And once they become free agents the contracts in baseball are MUCH better and sweeter than it is in the other sports. So I DO NOT feel sorry for Sydergaard, deGrom, or any of them. They will make their money, GUARANTEED money.

But I can see them protesting a little. It does suck that even it they are a staff's Ace, and have a great year that they have no control or say in their salaries or contracts.
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austrianecon said:
That's the point I was making. Every pitcher, #1-#5, or fielder gets paid at a fixed rate for their first 3 years because they are cost control which allows MLB teams to keep salary budgets lower. If he pitches like he did in 2016 for the next two years. He'll get a hefty pay date in Arb. Just as Chris Tillman did, he went from $540,000 to $4.3m or Manny Machado who went from $548,000 to $5m.
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In exceptional cases a wise GM might choose to spend an extra $1M for a year or two to save maybe $10M over the next decade, and increase his team's attractiveness to free agents.
 
SenorXm/Sirius said:
I doubt very much if a Free Agent would care what a team pays it's players who aren't even eligible for Free Agency...
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I've read a number of articles over the years about how players talk among themselves about what are "good" teams to play for.
 
Jack Hays said:
I've read a number of articles over the years about how players talk among themselves about what are "good" teams to play for.
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So have I. And what a team pays it's younger players isn't 1 of the reasons Free Agents look at when signing with a team. They usually go where the money is, and in the case of NYC teams, they sign because they like NYC, or don't sign because they hate NYC. What a rookie or 1 year player gets paid isn't 1 of those reasons.

It's a HUGE stretch to think Cespedes cared 1 way or the other that deGrom protested his $600k pay in 2016. Especially since deGrom will make $4 mil this year. Next year Syndergaard with make $4 mil. I doubt anyone else on the Mets cares.

They all play under the same rules, that's the way the pay scale is structured, It's in the MLBPA's contract.
 
SenorXm/Sirius said:
So have I. And what a team pays it's younger players isn't 1 of the reasons Free Agents look at when signing with a team. They usually go where the money is, and in the case of NYC teams, they sign because they like NYC, or don't sign because they hate NYC. What a rookie or 1 year player gets paid isn't 1 of those reasons.

It's a HUGE stretch to think Cespedes cared 1 way or the other that deGrom protested his $600k pay in 2016. Especially since deGrom will make $4 mil this year. Next year Syndergaard with make $4 mil. I doubt anyone else on the Mets cares.

They all play under the same rules, that's the way the pay scale is structured, It's in the MLBPA's contract.
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I know how the MLB system works. I also know players talk about which teams "take care of" their players. And their agents certainly talk.
 
Jack Hays said:
In exceptional cases a wise GM might choose to spend an extra $1M for a year or two to save maybe $10M over the next decade, and increase his team's attractiveness to free agents.
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LMFAO. You think giving a pre-arb player more money in those years solves problems? Bryce Harper agreed to 5 year, $9.9m contract when drafted. He played under that contract for 4 years. Then when he got arb eligible as a Super Two, he and his agent Scott Boras decided to file for a hearing to void the contract. Nats overpaid Harper his pre-arb years and it didn't save the Nats a damn penny. In fact it's gonna cost the Nats because come then end of the 2018 season, Bryce Harper is gonna go to NY to collect his 10/12 year/ $400m contract from the Yankees.
 
Jack Hays said:
I've read a number of articles over the years about how players talk among themselves about what are "good" teams to play for.
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Players talk about good "orgs" to play for which has nothing to do with pay as the pay structure for pre-arb players is set in stone. When players talk it's about the atmosphere, ownership, coaching staff, facilities, trainers, food, and travel.
 
austrianecon said:
LMFAO. You think giving a pre-arb player more money in those years solves problems? Bryce Harper agreed to 5 year, $9.9m contract when drafted. He played under that contract for 4 years. Then when he got arb eligible as a Super Two, he and his agent Scott Boras decided to file for a hearing to void the contract. Nats overpaid Harper his pre-arb years and it didn't save the Nats a damn penny. In fact it's gonna cost the Nats because come then end of the 2018 season, Bryce Harper is gonna go to NY to collect his 10/12 year/ $400m contract from the Yankees.
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austrianecon said:
Players talk about good "orgs" to play for which has nothing to do with pay as the pay structure for pre-arb players is set in stone. When players talk it's about the atmosphere, ownership, coaching staff, facilities, trainers, food, and travel.
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We shall see. This is not about saving "a damn penny." Nats may or may not go all out to keep Harper. Early on they overpaid for Jason Werth, but that overpayment made them a desirable destination. Two results of that? Max Scherzer and a team-friendly extension for Stephen Strasburg.
 
Jack Hays said:
We shall see. This is not about saving "a damn penny." Nats may or may not go all out to keep Harper. Early on they overpaid for Jason Werth, but that overpayment made them a desirable destination. Two results of that? Max Scherzer and a team-friendly extension for Stephen Strasburg.
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If you are an owner, it's absolutely trying to put the best team out there for the least amount of money based on your projection models your FO uses. Nats can't go all out on Harper unless they go on the cheap come 2019/2020 and further. As Strausburg and Scherzer $45m of the payroll at that time with 38 other players to pay for (40 man roster). If Harper wants $30m a year. You are looking at 1/3 of salary costs in 3 players.

Scherzer's extension is not team friendly. The last 3 years of his contract is about $30m a year when a pitcher is most likely to suffer arm injuries and then you have to pay him another $15m per year from 2021 to 2028 when he won't throw a single pitch.

Strausburg's contract is player friendly, not team friendly. A guy with a history of injuries gets a 7/$175m contract with 2 opt outs and Nats pay $35m (towards salary cap) a year before his first opt out and $25m before his second opt out. If he stays his final year salary will be $45m (towards salary cap). Basically the Nats got bullied into a contract by Boras to give Strausburg, an injury magnet, a guaranteed $175m with little protection for the Nats.
 
The Mariners are going to win it all this year.
 
austrianecon said:
If you are an owner, it's absolutely trying to put the best team out there for the least amount of money based on your projection models your FO uses. Nats can't go all out on Harper unless they go on the cheap come 2019/2020 and further. As Strausburg and Scherzer $45m of the payroll at that time with 38 other players to pay for (40 man roster). If Harper wants $30m a year. You are looking at 1/3 of salary costs in 3 players.

Scherzer's extension is not team friendly. The last 3 years of his contract is about $30m a year when a pitcher is most likely to suffer arm injuries and then you have to pay him another $15m per year from 2021 to 2028 when he won't throw a single pitch.

Strausburg's contract is player friendly, not team friendly. A guy with a history of injuries gets a 7/$175m contract with 2 opt outs and Nats pay $35m (towards salary cap) a year before his first opt out and $25m before his second opt out. If he stays his final year salary will be $45m (towards salary cap). Basically the Nats got bullied into a contract by Boras to give Strausburg, an injury magnet, a guaranteed $175m with little protection for the Nats.
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[h=3]Max Scherzer and When $210 Million Isn't $210 Million | FanGraphs ...[/h]www.fangraphs.com/blogs/max-scherzer-and-when-210-million-isnt-210-million/



Jan 19, 2015 - Scherzer signed a seven year contract, and in exchange for pitching for them for those seven years, the Nationals have agreed to pay him $210 ...
 
austrianecon said:
If you are an owner, it's absolutely trying to put the best team out there for the least amount of money based on your projection models your FO uses. Nats can't go all out on Harper unless they go on the cheap come 2019/2020 and further. As Strausburg and Scherzer $45m of the payroll at that time with 38 other players to pay for (40 man roster). If Harper wants $30m a year. You are looking at 1/3 of salary costs in 3 players.

Scherzer's extension is not team friendly. The last 3 years of his contract is about $30m a year when a pitcher is most likely to suffer arm injuries and then you have to pay him another $15m per year from 2021 to 2028 when he won't throw a single pitch.

Strausburg's contract is player friendly, not team friendly. A guy with a history of injuries gets a 7/$175m contract with 2 opt outs and Nats pay $35m (towards salary cap) a year before his first opt out and $25m before his second opt out. If he stays his final year salary will be $45m (towards salary cap). Basically the Nats got bullied into a contract by Boras to give Strausburg, an injury magnet, a guaranteed $175m with little protection for the Nats.
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Deferred money, at no interest, makes the contracts cheaper than they appear.

[h=3]Nationals will pay Stephen Strasburg until 2030, thanks to new ...[/h]https://www.washingtonpost.com/.../stephen-strasburgs-contract-includes-a-lot-of-deferr...
May 10, 2016 - Stephen Strasburg's unexpected contract extension with the Washington Nationals features something that is becoming a trademark in the ...
 
Jack Hays said:
[h=3]Max Scherzer and When $210 Million Isn't $210 Million | FanGraphs ...[/h]www.fangraphs.com/blogs/max-scherzer-and-when-210-million-isnt-210-million/



Jan 19, 2015 - Scherzer signed a seven year contract, and in exchange for pitching for them for those seven years, the Nationals have agreed to pay him $210 ...
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Fan Graph is assuming those dollars are invested thus lowering the NPV. Nats spent it on players in current years. So they will always be paying in current dollars. The other issues are future team salary, luxury tax implications and why are players saying no to the Nats.

Like the article says.. Nats are the only team in MLB that has multiple contracts structured in such a manner. There is a reason why Nats haven't signed a big name player that didn't come from their Org.
 
austrianecon said:
Fan Graph is assuming those dollars are invested thus lowering the NPV. Nats spent it on players in current years. So they will always be paying in current dollars. The other issues are future team salary, luxury tax implications and why are players saying no to the Nats.

Like the article says.. Nats are the only team in MLB that has multiple contracts structured in such a manner. There is a reason why Nats haven't signed a big name player that didn't come from their Org.
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Max Scherzer? Daniel Murphy? Matt Weiters? Jayson Werth?
 
Jack Hays said:
Max Scherzer? Daniel Murphy? Matt Weiters? Jayson Werth?
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1) Scherzer was part of Nats org.

2) Daniel Murphy is not a big name. He had 1 good year (last year). His contract is not deferred.

3) Matt Wieters is a catcher coming of TJ and a very average defensive catcher post TJ surgery. Orioles wanted to sign him and his agent overplayed his hand. It's why he sat on the market for so long. Orioles got Wellington Castillo for cheaper and both are equal in offense and defense. Wieters signed a 2 year deal worth as much as $21m, some of it deferred to the 3rd year because nobody wanted him at what he was asking. Even Braves didn't want him, his home town team. Rizzo and the Lerners bailed out Boras with Wieters.

4) Werth signed with the Nats in 2010. Nats were still a young franchise. He needs 6 WAR this year to justify that signing. At age 37 it's highly unlikely.
 
austrianecon said:
1) Scherzer was part of Nats org.

2) Daniel Murphy is not a big name. He had 1 good year (last year). His contract is not deferred.

3) Matt Wieters is a catcher coming of TJ and a very average defensive catcher post TJ surgery. Orioles wanted to sign him and his agent overplayed his hand. It's why he sat on the market for so long. Orioles got Wellington Castillo for cheaper and both are equal in offense and defense. Wieters signed a 2 year deal worth as much as $21m, some of it deferred to the 3rd year because nobody wanted him at what he was asking. Even Braves didn't want him, his home town team. Rizzo and the Lerners bailed out Boras with Wieters.

4) Werth signed with the Nats in 2010. Nats were still a young franchise. He needs 6 WAR this year to justify that signing. At age 37 it's highly unlikely.
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Scherzer was signed away from Detroit.
 
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