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Best baseball player of all time? [W:74]

Puigb said:
Nope. And what was the penalty again? LOL
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Already set forth in #199.

Those involved in the possession, sale, or use of any illegal drug or controlled substance are subject to discipline by the commissioner and risk permanent expulsion from the game.
 
Jack Hays said:
Already set forth in #199.

Those involved in the possession, sale, or use of any illegal drug or controlled substance are subject to discipline by the commissioner and risk permanent expulsion from the game.
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Obviously it wasn't enforced, so therefore irrelevant.
 
Jack Hays said:
Not at all irrelevant. Players were put on notice. Any steroid use thereafter invalidates all achievements.
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Nope. And it was all illegal drugs, including amphetamines.

So if it nullifies their achievements, then anyone else caught using an illegal drug, nullifies theirs. Can't have it just one way champ.
 
Puigb said:
Nope. And it was all illegal drugs, including amphetamines.

So if it nullifies their achievements, then anyone else caught using an illegal drug, nullifies theirs. Can't have it just one way champ.
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There was no such notice about amphetamines from the Commissioner's office until 2005. Use before then was OK in my book.
 
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Compromise? How about this/

1) Bonds was the greatest steroid ballplayer of all time
2) Chuck Klein was the greatest home field ballplayer of all time
3) Williams & Ruth are the greatest offensive ballplayers of all time
 
Jack Hays said:
There was no such notice about amphetamines from the Commissioner's office until 2005. Use before then was OK in my book.
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it mentions all illegal substances.
 
slick said:
Compromise? How about this/

1) Bonds was the greatest steroid ballplayer of all time
2) Chuck Klein was the greatest home field ballplayer of all time
3) Williams & Ruth are the greatest offensive ballplayers of all time
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No for #2. Mel Ott was the greatest home field ballplayer of all time.
 
CaptainCourtesy said:
No for #2. Mel Ott was the greatest home field ballplayer of all time.
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Captain, here are some homefield stats to consider:

Klein's top 5 home seasons
1) 1933 AVG .467 HR's 20 SLG .789 RBI's 81
2) 1930 AVG .437 HR's 26 SLG .792 RBI's 109
3) 1932 AVG .423 HR's 29 SLG .799 RBI's 97
4) 1931 AVG .401 HR's 22 SLG .740 RBI's 78
5) 1929 AVG .467 HR's 20 SLG .789 RBI's 81

Ott's top 5 home seasons
1) 1932 AVG .285 HR's 24 SLG .622 RBI's 66
2) 1942 AVG .349 HR's 23 SLG .643 RBI's 62
3) 1930 AVG .358 HR's 21 SLG .658 RBI's 65
4) 1944 AVG .251 HR's 21 SLG .596 RBI's 46
5) 1929 AVG .297 HR's 20 SLG .584 RBI's 65

highest average any season at home
1) Hornsby .478 (Sportsmans Park)
2) Klein .467 (Baker Bowl)
3) L. Walker .461 (Coors Field)
4) Klein .437 (Baker Bowl)
5) Klein .423 (Baker Bowl)

Most HR's in a season home field
1) Greenberg 39
2) McGuire 38
3) Bonds 37
4) Foxx 35
5) Sosa 35

Way back
33rd) Klein 29
190th) Ott 24
 
slick said:
Captain, here are some homefield stats to consider:

Klein's top 5 home seasons
1) 1933 AVG .467 HR's 20 SLG .789 RBI's 81
2) 1930 AVG .437 HR's 26 SLG .792 RBI's 109
3) 1932 AVG .423 HR's 29 SLG .799 RBI's 97
4) 1931 AVG .401 HR's 22 SLG .740 RBI's 78
5) 1929 AVG .467 HR's 20 SLG .789 RBI's 81

Ott's top 5 home seasons
1) 1932 AVG .285 HR's 24 SLG .622 RBI's 66
2) 1942 AVG .349 HR's 23 SLG .643 RBI's 62
3) 1930 AVG .358 HR's 21 SLG .658 RBI's 65
4) 1944 AVG .251 HR's 21 SLG .596 RBI's 46
5) 1929 AVG .297 HR's 20 SLG .584 RBI's 65

highest average any season at home
1) Hornsby .478 (Sportsmans Park)
2) Klein .467 (Baker Bowl)
3) L. Walker .461 (Coors Field)
4) Klein .437 (Baker Bowl)
5) Klein .423 (Baker Bowl)

Most HR's in a season home field
1) Greenberg 39
2) McGuire 38
3) Bonds 37
4) Foxx 35
5) Sosa 35

Way back
33rd) Klein 29
190th) Ott 24
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LIFETIME, Ott hit 323 of his 511 home runs at home... 63%. Percentages tell us more than bare numbers. Chuck Klein hit 174 of 300, 58%.
 
Like all sports it is stupid to compare athletes in a sport that is nothing like it was back when it started.
 
CaptainCourtesy said:
LIFETIME, Ott hit 323 of his 511 home runs at home... 63%. Percentages tell us more than bare numbers. Chuck Klein hit 174 of 300, 58%.
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We are talking about greatest Homefield player of all-times
not the player who had the highest percentage of HR's in there
primary home field. If the latter were the case Bill Dickey
& Bobby Doerr both Hall of Famers would be considered the best
home field players, but they are not!

Bill Dickey whose swing was geared for Yankee Stadiums
inviting right field porch hit 67% of his HR's at home.

Bobby Doerr feasted on Fenways Green Monster to hit 65% of his HR's at home.

As for the notion that 'percentages tell us more than bare numbers' I agree.

Put aside batting average which is actually a percentage stat
in which Klein's .395 BA at baker Bowl is the highest of any
player ever in his primary home field. Consider insterad the two most important percentage stats IMO.
Slugging Percentage & OPS (on base plus slugging)
Klein's .708 at Baker Bowl is higher than all & his OPS
of 1.153 only Babe Ruth beats, Ted Williams is only a hair behind in 3rd.

Coors field by stat analysis gives players the most significant HF advantage & Baker Bowl is #2.
Kleins abilities were made for Baker Bowl when he was traded to the Cubs he still was an all-star but
never had Ruthian stats again.
 
I was really excited about posting my favorite until I realized this was about baseball!! :lol:
 
rhinefire said:
Like all sports it is stupid to compare athletes in a sport that is nothing like it was back when it started.
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One constant is class. Maybe it's a personal flaw of mine, but I have a hard time calling any athlete "great" or "the best" who, on a personal level, was a douchebag.
 
Jack Hays said:
They understood. They just decided to cheat.
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Obviously it wasn't considered cheating, hence them never facing any penalties for it.
 
slick said:
Bonds was a great player, even before his steroid years say 2000 to the end of his career, after all he won the MVP award 3 times
before he became Barroid! But please don't 'erect a cathedral' around his peak years which BTW he attained his peak at the ages of
36 to 40, that in itself is strange.

This is what you miss:
THE STEROID ERA

FROM 1903-1949 that's 47 years THERE WERE 44 PLAYERS WHO HIT OVER 30 HR'S IN A SEASON, Less than 1 a year

In the year before Bonds hit 73 HR's, 2000, 46 Major Leaguers League hit over 30 HR's, these were video game stats!
In one year more players had over 30 HR's than than the 1st 47 years of the modern baseball era combined.

In the steroid era only slightly more than run of the mill players Luis Gonzalez, Brady Anderson & Greg Vaughn hit 50 HR's in a season
From 1903 to 1949 Ruth, Foxx, Greenberg, Kiner, Wilson & Mize Hall of Famers all were the only players to reach that mark.

Before the steroid era Ruth's record of 60 seemed unapproachable until Maris hit 61 in 61.
What's remarkable during the steroid era Sammy Sosa hit over 60 HR's 3X & get this didn't win the HR title during those 3 seasons.
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What is more amazing about Bonds is he played in AT&T Park, which is the hardest stadium for a left-handed hitter to hit homeruns. If he played in Yankee Stadium, he could have hit for 90 hrs.
 
Bucky said:
What is more amazing about Bonds is he played in AT&T Park, which is the hardest stadium for a left-handed hitter to hit homeruns. If he played in Yankee Stadium, he could have hit for 90 hrs.
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Why stop at 90 go for 120! Listen if Bonds had played in Griffith Stadium, the home of the Washington Senators for 60 years if he hit 35 HR's in his peak
year he'd have a statue erected in his honor. In 1945 the entire Senator team hit exactly 1 homerun in their 77 home games & that was an inside the park homerun.
AT&T park is larger than most parks in use today but compared to the Parks Ruth, DiMaggio, Foxx & Hornsby played in it is a Fishbowl.

You should know that in Bonds 73 HR season Bonds hit more HR's at home that you state 'is the hardest stadium for a left-handed hitter to hit homeruns'
than he hit on the road so maybe AT&T is not as cavernous as you think. He hit 40 HR in what is considered the CF area that year. In the 30's went Foxx,
Greenberg, Mize & DiMag were the HR's bashers no player ever hit even 10 HR's in what is considered the CF area, the fences in center were to far away.

Yankee Stadium where you say Bonds would have hit 90 HR's up until 1976 was 461 ft. the CF. Bonds only hit 29 HR's the the RF area, 40 in CF & 4 to LF.Clem's Baseball ~ Stadium dimensions
 
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