• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Kentucky police to record license plates of those attending services this weekend

joko104 said:
They should record the licenses plate of every vehicle at WalMart stores and put those people in 14 day quarantine. But hell will freeze over before anything will stop the WalMart heirs competition with Jeff Bezos - nor any obstacle to Jeff Bezo and Amazon either - in their competition of which of them become the wealthiest person on earth out of this - now and into the future.

Why won't any of you answer which one you are rooting for? That is what this is all about. No sane person things the safest thing to do is force everyone to go to WalMart.
Click to expand...

I've already stated my position on this topic ... nobody forces consumers to go shopping, and if they choose not to go to Walmart, Kroger any other store to obtain the goods to maintain life, that's the consumer's decision.
 
jotathought said:
I've already stated my position on this topic ... nobody forces consumers to go shopping, and if they choose not to go to Walmart, Kroger any other store to obtain the goods to maintain life, that's the consumer's decision.
Click to expand...

False, the government has outlawed consumer choice - or are you making some live-off-the-land claim?
 
joko104 said:
False, the government has outlawed consumer choice - or are you making some live-off-the-land claim?
Click to expand...

I completely agree that government has limited consumer choice ... and it hasn't prevented a consumer from acquiring food and essential items.
 
jotathought said:
Although there are less than ten churches considering to open the doors for Easter services and I'd agree we should be following guidelines to minimize exposure (especially with large groups of people), this will be interesting to see as it (if it) unfolds. Governor Brasher has already asked churches to close down, the closing of non-essential businesses and social distancing guidelines; however, using law enforcement to collect license plate detail, refer Easter goer information to local health departments and then mandate a 14-day quarantine seems futile. If Easter goers are willing to defy social distancing guidelines to attend services, what would prevent them from defying the 14-day quarantine restrictions and what will Brasher do to those violators?

Kentucky to record license plates of those attending services this weekend and require them to quarantine for 14 days


Curious to hear your thoughts on this topic.
Click to expand...

Lock the church doors and keep the congregation there for 2 weeks as quarintene if they want to violate the social distancing precautions. It's better to have them infect each other who are willfully ignorant to attend a church at this time then to infect the general population who chose to stay at home as they were supposed to do.

The idea that the ministers will not cancel services or hold them online is because filling the Easter collection plate is more important than the safety of their congregant's lives.
 
Lisa said:
Lock the church doors and keep the congregation there for 2 weeks as quarintene if they want to violate the social distancing precautions. It's better to have them infect each other who are willfully ignorant to attend a church at this time then to infect the general population who chose to stay at home as they were supposed to do.

The idea that the ministers will not cancel services or hold them online is because filling the Easter collection plate is more important than the safety of their congregant's lives.
Click to expand...

This is completely subjective in nature. Many churches promote the use of online technologies for its congregation to submit their tithes & offerings.
 
Lisa said:
Lock the church doors and keep the congregation there for 2 weeks as quarintene if they want to violate the social distancing precautions. It's better to have them infect each other who are willfully ignorant to attend a church at this time then to infect the general population who chose to stay at home as they were supposed to do.

The idea that the ministers will not cancel services or hold them online is because filling the Easter collection plate is more important than the safety of their congregant's lives.
Click to expand...

That's a great idea. Declare the entire church a quarantine zone.


Let them pray for a couple of weeks
 
jotathought said:
This is completely subjective in nature. Many churches promote the use of online technologies for its congregation to submit their tithes & offerings.
Click to expand...

They would not donate as much if the services were online on if they were voluntary without any coercion such as a sermon in person. The service and the sermon is a critical sales pitch to create guilt in the mark.
 
vegas giants said:
That's a great idea. Declare the entire church a quarantine zone.


Let them pray for a couple of weeks
Click to expand...

I can't wait for the expected whining claims that their relgious rights are being violated because they cannot leave to infect others.
 
Chomsky said:
Any other banned illegal event that had the possibility of deadly consequences to the public would be forcefully disbanded, not condoned. Why should religious services be an exception?

This coming from a Catholic who will be watching the televised Easter Mass shortly ...
Click to expand...

last I checked, the right of worship and assembly cannot be set aside by the order of a governor. I hope he gets reamed, steamed and dry cleaned by federal courts when some of the parishioners file constitutional tort lawsuits against the wannabe dictator.

Now, I think the people who congregate at a church right now are probably not the smartest people going. But constitutional rights don't go away for the stupid
 
Lisa said:
They would not donate as much if the services were online on if they were voluntary without any coercion such as a sermon in person. The service and the sermon is a critical sales pitch to create guilt in the mark.
Click to expand...

Do you believe constitutional rights can properly be abrogated by the order of a governor?
 
bluesmoke said:
Obviously, these people believe more in God protecting them than warnings from science. The enforcement will have little effect on quarantine. However, if gatherings themselves are thwarted and what few people do indeed quarantine themselves will probably prevent the greater likelihood of the virus spreading and killing more innocent people, and the churchgoers.
Click to expand...

These people need to read their Bibles a little more closely.

Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God. Matthew 4:7
 
TurtleDude said:
Do you believe constitutional rights can properly be abrogated by the order of a governor?
Click to expand...

Under certain conditions, yes they do, when the good or welfare of the society outweighs individual rights. Your right to worship does not permit you to willfully spread infectious disease.
 
Lisa said:
Under certain conditions, yes they do, when the good or welfare of the society outweighs individual rights. Your right to worship does not permit you to willfully spread infectious disease.
Click to expand...

that is making an assumption that attending a service spreads a disease. what constitutional authority supports your claim that the constitution can be suspended "For the good of society"
 
TurtleDude said:
that is making an assumption that attending a service spreads a disease. what constitutional authority supports your claim that the constitution can be suspended "For the good of society"
Click to expand...

This rule was used in the AIDS crisis before so it is not a new precedent. Your religious rights are limited to the right to believe and the right to worship without being fined. They do not include the right to put others at risk by spreading a deadly contagion. You can just as easily worship by watching TV or streaming services on your internet-connected device.

Until we can confidently prove that the attendees are all free of the virus we must assume a worst-case scenario that some of them are infected and have spread it to other attendees during the service because that ha happened in multiple churches. If we had tested all people as South Korea did we would know better and people would be permitted to have more interaction but we didn't and there are many people out there who are infected and not outwardly symptomatic.

California megachurch linked to spread of more than 70 coronavirus cases | Coronavirus outbreak | The Guardian

Nearly 3 dozen who attended Arkansas church event test positive for coronavirus
 
Lisa said:
This rule was used in the AIDS crisis before so it is not a new precedent. Your religious rights are limited to the right to believe and the right to worship without being fined. They do not include the right to put others at risk by spreading a deadly contagion. You can just as easily worship by watching TV or streaming services on your internet-connected device.

Until we can confidently prove that the attendees are all free of the virus we must assume a worst-case scenario that some of them are infected and have spread it to other attendees during the service because that ha happened in multiple churches. If we had tested all people as South Korea did we would know better and people would be permitted to have more interaction but we didn't and there are many people out there who are infected and not outwardly symptomatic.

California megachurch linked to spread of more than 70 coronavirus cases | Coronavirus outbreak | The Guardian

https://www.washingtonpost.com/
Click to expand...
so infected until proven germ free?

I don't see any legal citations that support your claim that the first amendment can be blatantly set aside by the order of a governor.

I am an agnostic and I think those who attend live church services in close contact are stupid. Yes I do. But I also swore-TWICE-an oath to defend the Constitution from all enemies -foreign and domestic. And I still fail to find any constitutional authority to suspend the right to worship and assembly -on private property-by a governor. And I suspect we will see more than a few suits that will examine this issue

BTW-I always wonder if those who are fans of government suspending constitutional rights, do so because they really are motivated by public safety or rather, they have a cultural or political loathing of those whose rights they want to see curtailed.
 
TurtleDude said:
so infected until proven germ free?

I don't see any legal citations that support your claim that the first amendment can be blatantly set aside by the order of a governor.

I am an agnostic and I think those who attend live church services in close contact are stupid. Yes I do. But I also swore-TWICE-an oath to defend the Constitution from all enemies -foreign and domestic. And I still fail to find any constitutional authority to suspend the right to worship and assembly -on private property-by a governor. And I suspect we will see more than a few suits that will examine this issue

BTW-I always wonder if those who are fans of government suspending constitutional rights, do so because they really are motivated by public safety or rather, they have a cultural or political loathing of those whose rights they want to see curtailed.
Click to expand...

Yes, it is safe to assume that unless we can prove otherwise that they are carriers and proceed accordingly for the short term. It is possible that they were infected a short time ago and are not outward showing symptoms or it is possible that they will never develop full-blown coronavirus because of a natural resistance. Despite that fact that are still carriers and they can very easily spread it to others in the close confines of a 1-hour church service. We can never get a hold on the virus if this is permitted to go on, so for a short time, the health of the many override the wants of a few to attend church services in public.

You are also in Ohio as I am so you are under DeWine's quarantine order of staying inside and strictly limiting any interaction. Do you also want to claim that it is unconstitutional as well as the demand that non-essential business are closed for 3-4 weeks as a way to control the spread of COVID9?

Don't get paranoid on me and claim that this is a planned attack on religious rights. I don't care what they are worshipping or if they do so. Maybe their god should answer a few prayers to cure the virus instead of creating it, since they believe that he is both all-knowing and all-powerful. He knew that they would close churches, just as he knew the virus would kill people and as of now, there is no proof that he is stopping it.

The Bible teaches that praying by yourself at home is just as effective as praying in a church. Matthew 6:6-7
 
Lisa said:
Yes, it is safe to assume that unless we can prove otherwise that they are carriers and proceed accordingly for the short term. It is possible that they were infected a short time ago and are not outward showing symptoms or it is possible that they will never develop full-blown coronavirus because of a natural resistance. Despite that fact that are still carriers and they can very easily spread it to others in the close confines of a 1-hour church service. We can never get a hold on the virus if this is permitted to go on, so for a short time, the health of the many override the wants of a few to attend church services in public.

You are also in Ohio as I am so you are under DeWine's quarantine order of staying inside and strictly limiting any interaction. Do you also want to claim that it is unconstitutional as well as the demand that non-essential business are closed for 3-4 weeks as a way to control the spread of COVID9?

Don't get paranoid on me and claim that this is a planned attack on religious rights. I don't care what they are worshipping or if they do so. Maybe their god should answer a few prayers to cure the virus instead of creating it, since they believe that he is both all-knowing and all-powerful. He knew that they would close churches, just as he knew the virus would kill people and as of now, there is no proof that he is stopping it.

The Bible teaches that praying by yourself at home is just as effective as praying in a church. Matthew 6:6-7
Click to expand...

we are talking six weeks now. but at least Dear Leader, is not threatening to record license plates and has held that his order does not apply to church gatherings.
 
TurtleDude said:
we are talking six weeks now. but at least Dear Leader, is not threatening to record license plates and has held that his order does not apply to church gatherings.
Click to expand...

I hate DeWine but the public health policy seems to be working. Why should religions be any more exempt to public health policies than anyone else?

I'd love to go to the salon but that isn't likely.
 
Lisa said:
I hate DeWine but the public health policy seems to be working. Why should religions be any more exempt to public health policies than anyone else?

I'd love to go to the salon but that isn't likely.
Click to expand...

uh because of a pesky little thing called the first amendment? what part of ohio? I am 40 klicks up the road from the Ohio river on 71
 
TurtleDude said:
uh because of a pesky little thing called the first amendment? what part of ohio? I am 40 klicks up the road from the Ohio river on 71
Click to expand...

North side of Cincinasty but south of dayton?

I closer to Akron/Medina.
 
TurtleDude said:
not too far from Kings Island
Click to expand...

I haven't been down there in years but one day I want to drive down and look around at Jungle Jims, just for the giggles.
 
Lisa said:
I haven't been down there in years but one day I want to drive down and look around at Jungle Jims, just for the giggles.
Click to expand...

I have never been to JJs but my wife used to shop there a bunch (not since the lockdown). till the lockdown, I used to be near JJs 4-5 times a week. Haven't been in Akron in ages though I was in Ashland a few weeks ago, and the top table tennis player in Ohio has a new training facility in Akron that one day I hope to go to
 
jotathought said:
Although there are less than ten churches considering to open the doors for Easter services and I'd agree we should be following guidelines to minimize exposure (especially with large groups of people), this will be interesting to see as it (if it) unfolds. Governor Brasher has already asked churches to close down, closing of non-essential businesses and social distancing guidelines; however, using law enforcement to collect license plate detail, refer Easter goer information to local health departments and then mandate a 14 day quarantine seems futile. If Easter goers are willing to defy social distancing guidelines to attend services, what would prevent them from defying the 14 day quarantine restrictions and what will Brasher do to those violators?

Kentucky to record license plates of those attending services this weekend and require them to quarantine for 14 days


Curious to hear your thoughts on this topic.
Click to expand...

Encourage church goes instead... let them all infect each other... they will all think it is part of God's Plan.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom