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Poll: Bloomberg overtakes Biden in Florida

Bullseye said:
Shouldn't the thread title be "Bloomberg buys the lead over Biden"?
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Presidential campaigns in the US have been about money for a loooooong time. If the money is personal or from donations, it doesn't make a difference.

There is only one candidate whose money is not donated by corporations or comes from a corporate career: Bernie Sanders.

Everybody else is in bed with corporations one way or the other, even Warren.

“Last winter and spring, she transferred $10.4 million in leftover funds from her 2018 Senate campaign to underwrite her 2020 run, a portion of which was raised from the same donor class she is now running against.”
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Don’t Trust Elizabeth Warren’s Big-Donor Ban

If you are really against that, Bullseye, then you should vote for Bernie, right? Wink, wink... (a Trump supporter voting for Bernie would be fun)
 
Chomsky said:
To the bolded: Of course I realize & respect our differences. There's no need in the least to mention it, nor doubt any less!

:cheers:

But as of the last several days, I'm starting to warm up to Bloomberg. Obviously for myself a large component of that is his perceived electability. But as I find-out more about the campaign infrastructure he's quietly built, and I learn more about him such as his truly being a self-made rags-to-riches story, I find that I'm becoming more positively impressed.

But as you said, "we shall see". I looked hard at Trump early-on in his campaign in the spring of 2016, but soured and changed my mind by mid-summer. His discrediting John McCain's service, and soon after disparaging his Mexican judge, were more than I could stand. We needed a little populism, I believe. But Trump was not the guy to do it. I saw that in his campaign, and stopped there with him.
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Yeah, that's one benefit Bloomberg has over Trump. Besides being 100 times wealthier, he didn't inherit a fortune from Daddy. Trump is only relevant because of who his dad was, that's not the case with Bloomberg. Plus, Bloomberg is a cutthroat business man, who clearly has no issues going toe to toe with Trump, probably better than anyone cause they both come from the same gutter style cutthroat business world of NYC.
 
Surrealistik said:
I think we have a long way to go before November, and the truth about Bloomberg is only beginning to bleed through.
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Agreed. And thanks for the respectful dialogue. With this primary, I live in the moment. Right now, I'm considering Bloomberg. That could change tomorrow, or it may not change at all. But I will keep my highest priority as stopping Trump.

You saw Trump this week? We can't even begin to fathom what next week, much less the rest of the year, will bring. Now, extrapolate that to what a four year lame-duck Trump will do? Admit it, you can't even guess - can you? So I believe my primary focus is the right one. Of that, I have little doubt. I've been given the gift of having seen my good share of Presidents - the good, the bad, the indifferent. This is the only one that scares me.
 
GreatNews2night said:
One thing is certain: if the 2020 race ends up being Bloomberg vs. Trump, then America will have rejected the left. We'll be pitching one billionaire fascist wannabe dictator who promotes racism and xenophobia, versus another billionaire who is the head of a mega corporation with assets in 69 countries, who despises all progressive ideas regarding higher taxation for the rich.

Still, Bloomberg vs. Trump, I'd vote Bloomberg.

Bloomberg can have all the negatives in the world but I don't believe that anybody who is or will be running for president in 2020 is worse than Trump, not even Bloomberg.

I will ALWAYS vote for the lesser of two evils.
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At the very least being a Democratic president Bloomberg won't be pushing a radical right wing agenda Trump will push. It's the same reason why "conservatives" have stuck with Trump despite Trump not being a conservative, he's implementing policies they like, and pushing the agenda they want pushed (pissing off liberals is also a plus for them too). Bloomberg is a corporate whore, but any left wing voter who would prefer 4 more years of Trump might as well be a Trump supporter/Republican.
 
GreatNews2night said:
Presidential campaigns in the US have been about money for a loooooong time. If the money is personal or from donations, it doesn't make a difference.

There is only one candidate whose money is not donated by corporations or comes from a corporate career: Bernie Sanders.

Everybody else is in bed with corporations one way or the other, even Warren.



Don’t Trust Elizabeth Warren’s Big-Donor Ban

If you are really against that, Bullseye, then you should vote for Bernie, right? Wink, wink... (a Trump supporter voting for Bernie would be fun)
Click to expand...

Here's the facts on Bernie's campaign finances Dig around a bit.
 
Puigb said:
Yeah, that's one benefit Bloomberg has over Trump. Besides being 100 times wealthier, he didn't inherit a fortune from Daddy. Trump is only relevant because of who his dad was, that's not the case with Bloomberg. Plus, Bloomberg is a cutthroat business man, who clearly has no issues going toe to toe with Trump, probably better than anyone cause they both come from the same gutter style cutthroat business world of NYC.
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And they both understand manipulating the media and public opinion. But whereas Trump manipulates the media from the outside, Bloomberg worked inside building a media empire. I expect Bloomberg forgot more than Trump ever knew. If Bloomberg's personality is found acceptable to the public, and he gets the nomination, I think he's going to be far more formidable against Trump than many realize.
 
Chomsky said:
And they both understand manipulating the media and public opinion. But whereas Trump manipulates the media from the outside, Bloomberg worked inside building a media empire. I expect Bloomberg forgot more than Trump ever knew. If Bloomberg's personality is found acceptable to the public, and he gets the nomination, I think he's going to be far more formidable against Trump than many realize.
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Agreed. I don't care for the guy, but sometimes it takes one scumbag (Bloomberg) to take down an even bigger scumbag (Trump). Also, while Bloomberg is a multiple party switcher like Trump, he's been generally more consistent in his political beliefs throughout his life, even when he was a Republican mayor in NYC. Trump on the other hand, spent his whole life supporting more liberal positions (particularly on healthcare and abortion), and then suddenly became a so called "severe conservative" in his late 60's...
 
Chomsky said:
And they both understand manipulating the media and public opinion. But whereas Trump manipulates the media from the outside, Bloomberg worked inside building a media empire. I expect Bloomberg forgot more than Trump ever knew. If Bloomberg's personality is found acceptable to the public, and he gets the nomination, I think he's going to be far more formidable against Trump than many realize.
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Also, want to add that Bloomberg more than anyone running seems to be eager to wipe out the Trump presidency from existence. I think a President Bloomberg with a Democratic congress would be devastating to Trump's "legacy", and Bloomberg would probably make it his number #1 priority to reverse anything from the Trump era, similar to what Trump has tried to do with Obama.
 
Puigb said:
At the very least being a Democratic president Bloomberg won't be pushing a radical right wing agenda Trump will push. It's the same reason why "conservatives" have stuck with Trump despite Trump not being a conservative, he's implementing policies they like, and pushing the agenda they want pushed (pissing off liberals is also a plus for them too). Bloomberg is a corporate whore, but any left wing voter who would prefer 4 more years of Trump might as well be a Trump supporter/Republican.
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And let's not overlook that Bloomberg may indeed siphon off moderate Republican voters - and especially Indies. If the Dems can find him palatable enough to nominate, Bloomberg may widen the party from the center. And that's a good thing, whether the Dems know it or not.

I swear, the more that I think of it the more I'm liking what I'm starting to see of this match-up. But man, that big-time gun-control stand? That's going to be tough with some center-moderate and center-conservative voters. Hell, even with some Dems like me!
 
Bullseye said:
Here's the facts on Bernie's campaign finances Dig around a bit.
Click to expand...

Oh wow, even Bernie, huh?

Top Contributors, federal election data for Bernie Sanders, 2020 cycle • OpenSecrets

Amazon.com, Microsoft, Apple, AT&T, IBM, Boeing, UPS, Walmart, Alphabet Inc (which is Google)...

Kaiser Permanente, a managed care organization and health insurer, wow! Bernie wants to forbid these things, LOL. Why in the hell is Kaiser Permanente donating to the Sanders campaign?

Surrealistik, what do you say about these corporate donations to the Sanders campaign? I'm a bit disappointed.

Sure, I'm aware that corporations often donate to multiple campaigns, to secure all bets. But should Bernie be *accepting* these donations???
 
Chomsky said:
But man, that big-time gun-control stand? That's going to be tough with some center-moderate and center-conservative voters. Hell, even with some Dems like me!
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On the other hand, the majority of Americans want more gun control. 64%. Independents support it at 58%. Democrats? 83%. So I'm not sure if supporting gun control will hurt Bloomberg.
 
GreatNews2night said:
On the other hand, the majority of Americans want more gun control. 64%. Independents support it at 58%. Democrats? 83%. So I'm not sure if supporting gun control will hurt Bloomberg.
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"Sensible Gun Laws" is a red herring that sucks a lot of people in. The proof comes with specificity.
 
Puigb said:
Agreed. I don't care for the guy, but sometimes it takes one scumbag (Bloomberg) to take down an even bigger scumbag (Trump). Also, while Bloomberg is a multiple party switcher like Trump, he's been generally more consistent in his political beliefs throughout his life, even when he was a Republican mayor in NYC. Trump on the other hand, spent his whole life supporting more liberal positions (particularly on healthcare and abortion), and then suddenly became a so called "severe conservative" in his late 60's...
Click to expand...
Well yes, Trump catered to his base and especially to the Republican Congress. Initially during the campaign he was marketing by pandering, but then in office as the Mueller Investigation progressed he clung to the (GOP) Right for mere survival! He had no choice, but to keep going deeper & deeper to protect himself from the onslaught.

I really am starting to like the idea of Bloomberg opening up a more centrist wing of the Dem Party, along with maybe bringing-in some true moderate Conservatives from the middle or even from the GOP. Bloomberg's conservative side is of the old Northeast "Rockefeller Republican" type. I miss that type of moderate & sensible conservatism. We substantially had that as Dems before, with old the J.F.K. Democrats. It's been my hope for years to re-open the Dem Party to the big-tent it once was, where there was inclusion for both liberal and more conservative Dems. I've lamented this here often, in quite a few posts. Who knows? Perhaps Bloomberg may open that door?
 
Chomsky said:
And let's not overlook that Bloomberg may indeed siphon off moderate Republican voters - and especially Indies. If the Dems can find him palatable enough to nominate, Bloomberg may widen the party from the center. And that's a good thing, whether the Dems know it or not.
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True. I could easily see some of the more moderate Republicans who haven't drank the Trumpian koolaid potentially at least give Bloomberg a look.

Chomsky said:
I swear, the more that I think of it the more I'm liking what I'm starting to see of this match-up. But man, that big-time gun-control stand? That's going to be tough with some center-moderate and center-conservative voters. Hell, even with some Dems like me!
Click to expand...

Eh, to a certain extent. It all depends how important certain issues are to certain voters.
 
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Puigb said:
Also, want to add that Bloomberg more than anyone running seems to be eager to wipe out the Trump presidency from existence. I think a President Bloomberg with a Democratic congress would be devastating to Trump's "legacy", and Bloomberg would probably make it his number #1 priority to reverse anything from the Trump era, similar to what Trump has tried to do with Obama.
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I'm tellin' ya'! The more I think of it, the more I'm starting to like it!
 
Chomsky said:
I'm tellin' ya'! The more I think of it, the more I'm starting to like it!
Click to expand...

I've been given him a second look as of recently as well. I never cared for the guy, but I've never disliked him as much as Trump. Trump has always been the worst kind of scumbag as far back as I remember.
 
Chomsky said:
Well yes, Trump catered to his base and especially to the Republican Congress. Initially during the campaign he was marketing by pandering, but then in office as the Mueller Investigation progressed he clung to the (GOP) Right for mere survival! He had no choice, but to keep going deeper & deeper to protect himself from the onslaught.

I really am starting to like the idea of Bloomberg opening up a more centrist wing of the Dem Party, along with maybe bringing-in some true moderate Conservatives from the middle or even from the GOP. Bloomberg's conservative side is of the old Northeast "Rockefeller Republican" type. I miss that type of moderate & sensible conservatism. We substantially had that as Dems before, with old the J.F.K. Democrats. It's been my hope for years to re-open the Dem Party to the big-tent it once was, where there was inclusion for both liberal and more conservative Dems. I've lamented this here often, in quite a few posts. Who knows? Perhaps Bloomberg may open that door?
Click to expand...

Also want to add, regarding Trump vs Bloomberg, that Trump is a conspiracy theorist of the worst kind. His entire career in GOP politics started because of Birtherism. Bloomberg may be an asshole, but I don't see him pushing the "Deep State", and "everyone who opposes me, is out to get me" nonsense that Trump and his minions regularly push.
 
GreatNews2night said:
On the other hand, the majority of Americans want more gun control. 64%. Independents support it at 58%. Democrats? 83%. So I'm not sure if supporting gun control will hurt Bloomberg.
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That's a fair point. But remember, Bloomberg is known for his banning handguns. That's a tough bridge for some to cross, and to my mind implies a bridge farther than mere "regulation". Whether voters will differentiate, I don't know.
 
Chomsky said:
To the bolded: Of course I realize & respect our differences. There's no need in the least to mention it, nor doubt any less!

:cheers:

But as of the last several days, I'm starting to warm up to Bloomberg. Obviously for myself a large component of that is his perceived electability. But as I find-out more about the campaign infrastructure he's quietly built, and I learn more about him such as his truly being a self-made rags-to-riches story, I find that I'm becoming more positively impressed.

But as you said, "we shall see". I looked hard at Trump early-on in his campaign in the spring of 2016, but soured and changed my mind by mid-summer. His discrediting John McCain's service, and soon after disparaging his Mexican judge, were more than I could stand. We needed a little populism, I believe. But Trump was not the guy to do it. I saw that in his campaign, and stopped there with him.
Click to expand...

What you say about Bloomberg is clearly all true. Perhaps I am bit cynical in my old age,but I just don't see a largw swath of our population being as fair minded as you.

I also agree Trump was the wrong messenger for the populism message.
 
washunut said:
What you say about Bloomberg is clearly all true. Perhaps I am bit cynical in my old age,but I just don't see a largw swath of our population being as fair minded as you.

I also agree Trump was the wrong messenger for the populism message.
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He was till the glide down the escalator the only one who volunteered his services, and now that he has and now that he stood firm against The Failed Intelligentsia is is hard for me to deny him my vote.
 
Puigb said:
I've been given him a second look as of recently as well. I never cared for the guy, but I've never disliked him as much as Trump. Trump has always been the worst kind of scumbag as far back as I remember.
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To be honest, I'm really getting hyped-up about the possibility of opening-up the Dem Party to what it was as the party of my youth. Yeah, I'll say it - we (family, friends, neighbors) were all Blue-dogs! And it wasn't bad. Actually, it was pretty good.

This demographic above was big back with with J.F.K., coming out of the Eisenhower era. And they were once the stalwarts of the party! They were the socially conservative blue-collar union guys, the rivet-heads that Micheal Moore was and wrote about in his first book. But then under disillusionment with Carter, many drifted over to become Reagan Democrats. Some never came back. Finally today, even more of this demographic left - for Trump! And again, many will never come-back. But boy, would it be great to give some of them a Trump-free home in the Dem Party again.

Like the crowd I described above, I too left the Dems quite a few years ago - only to come back specifically in response to the Trump Presidency. I'm still uncomfortable with much of the current rigidity of the party, and there are things that do make me cringe. For me to stay beyond Trump, I'll need more reason - though there are things I am liking. So for now, I'm here.
 
washunut said:
What you say about Bloomberg is clearly all true. Perhaps I am bit cynical in my old age,but I just don't see a largw swath of our population being as fair minded as you.

I also agree Trump was the wrong messenger for the populism message.
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Thanks for the compliment!

As to Trump, well in defense I can't help but think of the quote,

"We don't get to pick our revolutionaries"

This is true. But Trump just went a bridge too far for me to accept.
 
GreatNews2night said:
Oh wow, even Bernie, huh?

Top Contributors, federal election data for Bernie Sanders, 2020 cycle • OpenSecrets

Amazon.com, Microsoft, Apple, AT&T, IBM, Boeing, UPS, Walmart, Alphabet Inc (which is Google)...

Kaiser Permanente, a managed care organization and health insurer, wow! Bernie wants to forbid these things, LOL. Why in the hell is Kaiser Permanente donating to the Sanders campaign?

Surrealistik, what do you say about these corporate donations to the Sanders campaign? I'm a bit disappointed.

Sure, I'm aware that corporations often donate to multiple campaigns, to secure all bets. But should Bernie be *accepting* these donations???
Click to expand...

Individuals are not corporations (and vice versa). In otherwords, individual donors working for corporations are not necessarily representative of them.

Now, if there are industry/corporate bundlers and the like directing funds his way, and he knew and accepted those donations, I would actually be chagrined.
 
Chomsky said:
Agreed. And thanks for the respectful dialogue. With this primary, I live in the moment. Right now, I'm considering Bloomberg. That could change tomorrow, or it may not change at all. But I will keep my highest priority as stopping Trump.

You saw Trump this week? We can't even begin to fathom what next week, much less the rest of the year, will bring. Now, extrapolate that to what a four year lame-duck Trump will do? Admit it, you can't even guess - can you? So I believe my primary focus is the right one. Of that, I have little doubt. I've been given the gift of having seen my good share of Presidents - the good, the bad, the indifferent. This is the only one that scares me.
Click to expand...
All of us are struggling right now I think. We have lots of choices. You've got Sanders trying to bring about a Reagan revolution to the party, then on other you have Buttigieg, Bloomberg, and Klobuchar trying to run a Clinton 92' style campaign, and appeal to a broad coalition.

It says something about pundits and polls that everyone thought Biden, Harris, and Warren would be the front runners, and it's clear now that none of them will end up winning.
 
MovingPictures said:
All of us are struggling right now I think. We have lots of choices. You've got Sanders trying to bring about a Reagan revolution to the party, then on other you have Buttigieg, Bloomberg, and Klobuchar trying to run a Clinton 92' style campaign, and appeal to a broad coalition.

It says something about pundits and polls that everyone thought Biden, Harris, and Warren would be the front runners, and it's clear now that none of them will end up winning.
Click to expand...

Do you notice how the Intelligentsia keep failing at even the basics?

That would be a good thing.
 
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