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Thread: Alabama Sen. Shelby: 'I couldn't vote for Roy Moore'

  1. #11
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    Re: Alabama Sen. Shelby: 'I couldn't vote for Roy Moore'

    Quote Originally Posted by reinoe View Post
    I don't doubt that he, and you, support Ronald Reagan. Throwing integrity to the wind, his administration armed and training terrorists, blurred the lines between religion and politics, supported corrupt bailouts of the Savings and Loans, disgracing our country before the international world court, and championed the corruption of the military/industrial complex. People like Ronald Reagan epitomize the decay in American politics of the last 30 years.

    Without a shadow of a doubt I believe that you long for the corruption of the Reagan administration.
    I have often stated that Reagan did two major things right in his time in office: he won the Cold War, and he restored the military's morale from its post-Vietnam funk (yeah, that is what he did). Oh, and there was the Reagan amnesty for illegals. Other than those things, Reagan did not do much that was right. As I said, his economic policy was a disaster. There's Iran-Contra. There's his dog-whistle politics reaching out to Southern racists (his states-rights speech in Philadelphia, MS).

    But you know what? I still hold him as one of the five best presidents ever. Why? Because he won the Cold War without it turning hot. The Cold War was without exception the most dangerous time in all human history...and he got us through it to the point where the USSR was falling apart by the time he left office...and regardless of what you may think, the one in charge gets all the blame and all the credit for what happens on his watch. That's why Reagan, for all the crappiness of his presidency, gets the credit for winning the Cold War...

    ...and it is for that reason and that reason alone I hold him as one of our five best presidents ever, because he got us through the most dangerous time in human history without it turning into a global thermonuclear exchange. Other than that, he was not a good president by any means. So do NOT claim that I somehow "long for the corruption of the Reagan administration" - I don't. I left the GOP because of Iran-Contra, because of the rise of the right-wing pundits and the Religious Right that had become kingmakers within the GOP. I left because of the corruption that I saw in the GOP.

    So stop assuming, willya? Instead, consider that maybe, just maybe people might not be wrong if they have opinions that aren't the same as yours.
    To do evil, a human being must first of all believe that what hes doing is good" - Solzhenitsyn

    "...with the terrorists, you have to take out their families." - Donald Trump

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    Re: Alabama Sen. Shelby: 'I couldn't vote for Roy Moore'

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Contrarian View Post
    But you know what? I still hold him as one of the five best presidents ever. Why? Because he won the Cold War without it turning hot. The Cold War was without exception the most dangerous time in all human history...and he got us through it to the point where the USSR was falling apart by the time he left office.
    As you said yourself, Reagan got in at the time the USSR was falling apart... so why do you give him the credit for ending it? The real threat of a hot war would have been under Eisenhower or JFK.
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    Re: Alabama Sen. Shelby: 'I couldn't vote for Roy Moore'

    Quote Originally Posted by Rexedgar View Post
    I find this statement to be rich in hyperbole! March with guns, really?
    Would they have actually done so? Probably not...but I've seen people make such claims myself. Why the heck do you think the Right was so supportive of the Bundys when they were pointing firearms at the federal agents who came to get them to stop breaking federal law? And if the Bundys had been black, or had been immigrants, do you think the Right would have been so supportive of them?
    To do evil, a human being must first of all believe that what hes doing is good" - Solzhenitsyn

    "...with the terrorists, you have to take out their families." - Donald Trump

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    Re: Alabama Sen. Shelby: 'I couldn't vote for Roy Moore'

    Quote Originally Posted by NeverTrumpGOP View Post
    Alabama's senior member of Congress comes out against Roy Moore. He didn't have to. He chose to do this.

    He said:

    Alabama Sen. Shelby: 'I couldn't vote for Roy Moore' - CNNPolitics
    A man with principles. Sadly many in the Party of Lincoln have sold themselves out.
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    You're still playing logic games. I hope you've heard every tree that's ever fallen ...
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  5. #15
    #TruthTellerTribe

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    Re: Alabama Sen. Shelby: 'I couldn't vote for Roy Moore'

    "I'd rather see the Republican win, but I'd rather see a Republican write-in. I couldn't vote for Roy Moore. I didn't vote for Roy Moore,"
    Pushing fantasy does not help anyone.....trying have it both ways is more of what America is increasingly rejecting, the purveyors of mush dont help their cause by producing more of it...."I want a Republican but I cant vote for the Republican that the Republican process has advanced as our man"....Well Sir, if you have that little faith in the Republican Party then maybe you should leave.
    When society throws away the Truth Tellers prepare for the worst, for it is surely coming.
    Open your eyes and your mind and then speak truth..........That is the only way forwards.

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    Re: Alabama Sen. Shelby: 'I couldn't vote for Roy Moore'

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Contrarian View Post
    He must be one of the Republicans who actually remember what the party of Reagan stood for (I voted for him, remember). As much as I beat up on Reagan for the disaster of supply-side economics, he would never - ever - have tolerated someone like Roy Moore being in the GOP, much less supported him for Congress. And Reagan would have outright rejected Trump.

    I honestly don't know what's going to happen between now and 2020. I had thought that the GOP would come to its senses concerning supporting Trump (and especially Moore), but I was wrong. I can't help but wonder what's going to happen if Trump (and possibly Pence) gets impeached and removed from office - will there be an armed uprising by Trump supporters? I honestly can't discount that possibility.
    I voted for Reagan's first term.

    It took a lot of years, decades actually, to realize the extreme damage his economic and drug policies caused and continue to cause the country (just as it will take many years to realize the damage of Trump and the Trump tax reform).

    But I believe you are right in that I bolded. Reagan struck me as someone who was cognizant of the decorum and respect required of the office. Obama strikes me similarly. Clinton - either one - and Trump, do not. Especially Trump.

    The biggest problem with Trump thoughis in dealing with his followers. They are my fellow Americans, and I want to respect them. They are indeed my equals, my peers, my fellow Americans as the name implies! But many just seem to want to tear everything down, including our democratic institutions. And it's getting harder and harder to respect that as "political differences".
    "When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." - Sinclair Lewis

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  7. #17
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    Re: Alabama Sen. Shelby: 'I couldn't vote for Roy Moore'

    Quote Originally Posted by NeverTrumpGOP View Post
    Alabama's senior member of Congress comes out against Roy Moore. He didn't have to. He chose to do this.

    He said:

    Alabama Sen. Shelby: 'I couldn't vote for Roy Moore' - CNNPolitics
    pleasantly stunned by his position
    old school good ole boy representing the GOP
    didn't see that expression of principle coming
    kudos to shelby for doing the right thing by not defending the right wing candidate
    we are negotiating about dividing a pizza and in the meantime israel is eating it
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    ... Ted has a big pair of boots and a small pair of balls.

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    Re: Alabama Sen. Shelby: 'I couldn't vote for Roy Moore'

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Contrarian View Post
    I have often stated that Reagan did two major things right in his time in office: he won the Cold War, and he restored the military's morale from its post-Vietnam funk (yeah, that is what he did). Oh, and there was the Reagan amnesty for illegals. Other than those things, Reagan did not do much that was right. As I said, his economic policy was a disaster. There's Iran-Contra. There's his dog-whistle politics reaching out to Southern racists (his states-rights speech in Philadelphia, MS).

    But you know what? I still hold him as one of the five best presidents ever. Why? Because he won the Cold War without it turning hot. The Cold War was without exception the most dangerous time in all human history...and he got us through it to the point where the USSR was falling apart by the time he left office...and regardless of what you may think, the one in charge gets all the blame and all the credit for what happens on his watch. That's why Reagan, for all the crappiness of his presidency, gets the credit for winning the Cold War...

    ...and it is for that reason and that reason alone I hold him as one of our five best presidents ever, because he got us through the most dangerous time in human history without it turning into a global thermonuclear exchange. Other than that, he was not a good president by any means. So do NOT claim that I somehow "long for the corruption of the Reagan administration" - I don't. I left the GOP because of Iran-Contra, because of the rise of the right-wing pundits and the Religious Right that had become kingmakers within the GOP. I left because of the corruption that I saw in the GOP.

    So stop assuming, willya? Instead, consider that maybe, just maybe people might not be wrong if they have opinions that aren't the same as yours.
    Your post begs the question: If R. Reagan was a top five, who are your other four?
    Everyone appreciates your honesty, until you are honest with them. Then you are an asshole. George Carlin
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  9. #19
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    Re: Alabama Sen. Shelby: 'I couldn't vote for Roy Moore'

    Quote Originally Posted by Geoist View Post
    As you said yourself, Reagan got in at the time the USSR was falling apart... so why do you give him the credit for ending it? The real threat of a hot war would have been under Eisenhower or JFK.
    Which American president gets the credit for America winning in WWII? Truman? Or FDR, who died several months before either Germany or Japan was defeated? It's the same principle when it comes to Reagan and the fall of the USSR - he gets the credit for winning it. Eisenhower and JFK kept us safe during their presidencies, but they did not win it - Reagan did.

    Again, don't think for a moment that I hold Reagan in high opinion - I don't, not for a moment. But I must give credit where credit is due. For instance, Hitler is rightly credited with having the autobahn - the world's first freeway system - built, and he got Germany back on its feet economically. That doesn't mean that he was a good chancellor. Look at Trump - I utterly despise him, but he does get credit for refusing to allow the GOP to close the Congressional Ethics Office on his first day as president. He is not the worst president we've had (so far) - and I sincerely hope he won't be our worst president - but he is certainly the least capable and least intelligent president we've ever had...but he has done a couple things that are good and right.

    Give credit where credit is due...but giving credit to someone for accomplishing a thing is not the same as passing judgement on that person's overall performance on the job. It is only giving objective credit (or blame) for one event or set of events. That's all.
    To do evil, a human being must first of all believe that what hes doing is good" - Solzhenitsyn

    "...with the terrorists, you have to take out their families." - Donald Trump

  10. #20
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    Re: Alabama Sen. Shelby: 'I couldn't vote for Roy Moore'

    Quote Originally Posted by reinoe View Post
    The U.S. treasury has paid out more than 17 million dollars as part of a slush fund to sexual assault victims as a result of inappropriate behavior of members of Congress. Many of those members are still serving. Before even thinking about starting some crap with more, the ethics committee should investigate the people still in office right now.

    For example...the people might choose Moore, warts and all knowing his history. There are member in Congress right now that are serving and people don't know the details of what they have done. Start there, with those people currently serving.
    I can't argue with that (congressional misconduct), because it's true.

    It seems it's starting to get addressed, but yeah I have little faith. Apparently in Congress, and only in Congress, do the accusers automatically receive gag-orders as the go into the process of making an allegation! WTH?

    But this still has nothing to do with Moore's culpability. Hang him too, if the investigations shows a preponderance of evidence. And ditto for Trump.
    "When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." - Sinclair Lewis

    The 10 Commandments of Logic - (Courtesy of Abbazorkzog Blog)

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