View Poll Results: Should Catlyn Jenner's medals and awards be taken from her?

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  • Yes, Jenner was never a male so should never have been in males-only events

    1 7.14%
  • No, Jenner was a male then and is a male now, regardless of gender

    13 92.86%
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Thread: Should Catlyn Jenner's medals and awards be taken from her?

  1. #11
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    Re: Should Catlyn Jenner's medals and awards be taken from her?

    Quote Originally Posted by goldkam View Post
    The poll is flawed. This is not a matter what this person was or was not at that point in time, its about the decisions they make. I think the journey, feelings, emotions and treatment are extremely difficult, and whilst I am still forming my opinion on this matter more broadly, I don't believe we can start placing labels on a person at points in time based on individually set norms and practises.

    This person presented as a man at that point in time and for a reason have become a woman, I think without over complicating it, it is as simple as that.
    But the claim is that they were born female/a woman in a man's body.

    In athletics, "I didn't know" is NEVER an excuse. If it later learned a competitor was ineligible, the award is taken back from that person. Athletics is not a psychological or mental competition. It is a physical competition. If Jenner was born a woman/female, then she was never eligible to compete as a male in male-only events.

    Or can it be both ways? That any male can - day to day - decide whether or not he/she is a man or woman - depending on which best served to the advantage of him/her?
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    Re: Should Catlyn Jenner's medals and awards be taken from her?

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    But the claim is that they were born female/a woman in a man's body.
    Thats my point the claim is far too simplistic and is looking at this from a 1 dimensional perspective, when in fact it is far more complicated.

    I don't know the complete details of the example and I don't believe it really matters. What matters is how the person presented themselves at the point in time that is in question, because trying to label and look in hindsight doesn't do justice to the person, the situation or how they may have felt.

    In athletics, "I didn't know" is NEVER an excuse. If it later learned a competitor was ineligible, the award is taken back from that person. Athletics is not a psychological or mental competition. It is a physical competition. If Jenner was born a woman/female, then she was never eligible to compete as a male in male-only events.
    You ignore and show no regard for the person, how they may have felt and the greater societal pressures that existed. Its a very similar process and situation as people coming out about their sexuality. What your comments show is that for whatever reason you fail to understand the complexity of the matter and you live in this very narrow minded world whereby you fail to understand the issue at hand. Your more worried about putting a persons actions or inactions into question, as opposed to accepting the challenging and difficult nature of this situation and process by using hindsight as a means to criticise. This kind of matter cannot be placed in a yes or no box, it just cannot.

    Or can it be both ways? That any male can - day to day - decide whether or not he/she is a man or woman - depending on which best served to the advantage of him/her?
    Once again you show insensitivity in understanding the issue. I don't believe someone can change gender day to day for some sort of gain but some people find themselves confused and unsure as they go on an emotional roller coaster, many of whom don't have support whether that be from family, friends or society.

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    Re: Should Catlyn Jenner's medals and awards be taken from her?

    Quote Originally Posted by goldkam View Post
    Thats my point the claim is far too simplistic and is looking at this from a 1 dimensional perspective, when in fact it is far more complicated.

    I don't know the complete details of the example and I don't believe it really matters. What matters is how the person presented themselves at the point in time that is in question, because trying to label and look in hindsight doesn't do justice to the person, the situation or how they may have felt.



    You ignore and show no regard for the person, how they may have felt and the greater societal pressures that existed. Its a very similar process and situation as people coming out about their sexuality. What your comments show is that for whatever reason you fail to understand the complexity of the matter and you live in this very narrow minded world whereby you fail to understand the issue at hand. Your more worried about putting a persons actions or inactions into question, as opposed to accepting the challenging and difficult nature of this situation and process by using hindsight as a means to criticise. This kind of matter cannot be placed in a yes or no box, it just cannot.



    Once again you show insensitivity in understanding the issue. I don't believe someone can change gender day to day for some sort of gain but some people find themselves confused and unsure as they go on an emotional roller coaster, many of whom don't have support whether that be from family, friends or society.
    Who has no sensitivity is you towards females who spend years and thousands of hours of hard work, focus and pain - which you claim is absolutely nothing and you don't give a damn - all because some guy says "I feel like a woman."

    I gather you are a person that believes that everyone should just be given a "participant" trophy in athletics and everyone gets an equal grade in school too. Competition has NOTHING to do with being "sensitive" to the "emotional roller coaster" needs of others - and declaring a pity party doesn't change that.

    This is about gay MTF transgender trashing women and stealing all their efforts, given they don't like women anyway. That is the history of male discrimination against women. ANY AND EVERY excuse to reduce women to nothing but existing to serve men - in this instance millions of women are to be sacrificed for the benefit of a few male gay transgenders who feel like a woman at the time they decide to go steal from women - claiming they then proved they are superior at being a female than a real female.

    Where do you show the SLIGHTEST compassion or concern for females - millions who go into athletics? You don't, not one word - but you sob so greatly for 1/10,000th the number of males wanting the awards and all the money, status and benefits women finally were starting to get for themselves.

    You are just worshiping the progressive slogan of the moment, nothing else. You don't "understand the issue" nor do you care by your messages. I have a married gay daughter currently in the military. Men like Ecofarm and you try to jam her up all the time because they, too, only care about males. A young friend of ours in our house many times, we had bought him a car, his furniture and put up a deposit for his apt was murdered by a Muslim in the Pulse nightclub. We've had LGBT rights meetings in our home.

    I "dated" a SRS MTF transexual (had sex reassignment surgery, not "transgender") in the past. But I also threw a self-declared MTF transgender (male with testicles and penis absurdly dressed clownishly as a female) physically out of our home once too after s/he got in the face of a lesbian activist lawyer who refused to use female pronounces - and when s/he started ranting in her face so much his/her spit was hitting her face - for which she dropped him to the floor with a hard knew into his "woman's testicles" - asking her/him "do you FEEL like a woman now?"

    Nor does it matter to you that the most well known MTF transgender on this forum entirely disagrees - intensely - with you.

    I fully "understand the complexity" of the matter. You recite slogans. This is your opinion: whatever gay MEN want, gay men should get no matter if it victimized 10,000,000 females and every female from now until the end of time. That is your stance. It's all about what males want, only about what males need. Women dirt under their feet, exist solely to service males, and should leave everything having to do with careers and athletics TO YOU MALES. IT IS 100% about YOU as a male. No one understands YOU as a male.

    Historically - and now - what men need most of all is to prove their superiority and dominance over females - even now to prove they are superior at being females too. By your messages you are such a male. You only care about male rights, and to hell with the needs of any females.

    You don't think females should not ever involve in sports anyway, do you? Or is it that you think they instead should always lose to males?
    Last edited by joko104; 02-16-20 at 05:48 PM.
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    Re: Should Catlyn Jenner's medals and awards be taken from her?

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    Who has no sensitivity is you towards females who spend years and thousands of hours of hard work, focus and pain - which you claim is absolutely nothing and you don't give a damn - all because some guy says "I feel like a woman."
    Firstly I never mentioned anything about other woman and their energy and dedication to training, you just introduced that into the conversation quite manipulatively. Interestingly your trying to create a situation which has never happened and in turn trying to stir a debate and create an issue out of a non-issue.

    I don't ignore or disregard their effort, rather I applaud and support it. You show such disrespect and disregard for people who are transgender, so I suggest you grow up and open your eyes we live in 2020 not 1950.

    Can I just clarify you don't support people who are transgender?

    I gather you are a person that believes that everyone should just be given a "participant" trophy in athletics and everyone gets an equal grade in school too. Competition has NOTHING to do with being "sensitive" to the "emotional roller coaster" needs of others - and declaring a pity party doesn't change that.
    Once again you assume things and try to make this some personal debate. I support competition. I support having winners and losers. I support having different grades at school.

    Considering the issue is transgender people in competition and the fact they do struggle with unique issues as others struggle with their own issues. Its not a pity party its fact. Once again you cannot form a mature response, we live in 2020 not 1950.

    People like you are serious problem in society. Just disgraceful. Show some respect to the issue.

    This is about gay MTF transgender trashing women and stealing all their efforts, given they don't like women anyway. That is the history of male discrimination against women. ANY AND EVERY excuse to reduce women to nothing but existing to serve men - in this instance millions of women are to be sacrificed for the benefit of a few male gay transgenders who feel like a woman at the time they decide to go steal from women - claiming they then proved they are superior at being a female than a real female.
    I don't support anyone undermining the work of others. But your view is so biased its premised on hate. You obviously don't like or respect transgender people...thats discrimination.

    You are so sinister and hateful on this issue. The situation you are trying to make up is not happening....your creating an issue out of a non-issue. You reduce the 'few male gay transgenders' to nothing more than a thing in society. You don't care. You have no respect.

    Where do you show the SLIGHTEST compassion or concern for females - millions who go into athletics? You don't, not one word - but you sob so greatly for 1/10,000th the number of males wanting the awards and all the money, status and benefits women finally were starting to get for themselves.
    Don't now manipulate the topic of our discussion. We were discussing transgender people and how this worked into sport and who they were. Now you have introduced a new topic and haven't given me the chance to comment on it. You not only hate and show no respect.....you also manipulate the conversations.

    You are just worshiping the progressive slogan of the moment, nothing else. You don't "understand the issue" nor do you care by your messages. I have a married gay daughter currently in the military. Men like Ecofarm and you try to jam her up all the time because they, too, only care about males. A young friend of ours in our house many times, we had bought him a car, his furniture and put up a deposit for his apt was murdered by a Muslim in the Pulse nightclub. We've had LGBT rights meetings in our home.
    In fact I am not progressive, I know you must be shocked since you like stereotyping people. I just like justice and even a bit of respect as well. Transgender people are treated disgustingly in society and whilst its a complex and charged issue they at least need to be shown respect. As any human being should. Not special treatment just respect.

    I "dated" a SRS MTF transexual (had sex reassignment surgery, not "transgender") in the past.
    I was not there and will not comment on that as I don't know what may or may not have happened. I find it interesting it takes one experience with two people of that nature for you to stereotype everyone in that category. That is simply not how life works.

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    Re: Should Catlyn Jenner's medals and awards be taken from her?

    hahahaha

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    Re: Should Catlyn Jenner's medals and awards be taken from her?

    Hell No they should not be erased from history CCCP Style....at the time they were won he was indispensably male
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    Re: Should Catlyn Jenner's medals and awards be taken from her?

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    Nor does it matter to you that the most well known MTF transgender on this forum entirely disagrees - intensely - with you.
    How you treat and speak about transgender people is disrespectful and hateful. I don't who I may be going against you know absolutely nothing about me, who I know or what I have experienced. That statement means nothing.

    I fully "understand the complexity" of the matter. You recite slogans.
    I don't think you actually do understand the complexity of the issue. Once again you stereotype. You may struggle to understand that I am typing this with no external influence....I have no agenda and no slogans stop trying to build a smokescreen around your lack of respect.

    This is your opinion: whatever gay MEN want, gay men should get no matter if it victimized 10,000,000 females and every female from now until the end of time. That is your stance. It's all about what males want, only about what males need. Women dirt under their feet, exist solely to service males, and should leave everything having to do with careers and athletics TO YOU MALES. IT IS 100% about YOU as a male. No one understands YOU as a male.
    You have a chronic inability to tell the truth. That is not my opinion and I call you out on such a lie. Why are we suddenly discussing gay men....this was about those who are transgender.

    If your going to make claims like you have support it with fact. Where are the 10,000,000 females who were victimised by gay males? I don't support the poor treatment of woman, I don't support the differential treatment between sexualities and I don't support the denying of facts.

    In regards to how you have stereotyped males and managed to manipulate this entire conversation into one about womens rights. I want to clear up your misleading claims.

    - I support womens rights. There is a long history of disregard, discrimination and a lack of respect against woman and I don't support that. I also don't support discrimination against those who are transgender.

    - There has been progress but there is still a long way to come in regards to pay, cultural change, discrimination, domestic violence among many other things.

    - I will not be stereotyped or bullied by someone about being a male. I have nothing but respect for woman and you CANNOT make comments about me without actually knowing who I am and what I have experienced. So shame on you. You are a hypocrite. You disrespect me by championing womens rights and their place in society yet treat me as a male like absolute trash undermining my rights and position in society. You also go on to undermined transgender people as well. What a double standard you have.

    You don't think females should not ever involve in sports anyway, do you? Or is it that you think they instead should always lose to males?
    Yes females should be involved in sport. Males should be involved in sport. Transgender people should be involved in sport.

    It depends on the situation. I am not going to grant females this protective shield that ensures they win everything in society. In a workplace or sport where men and woman wilfully go up against one another if a woman beats a man or a man beats a woman its to be accepted.

  8. #18
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    Re: Should Catlyn Jenner's medals and awards be taken from her?

    Quote Originally Posted by goldkam View Post
    How you treat and speak about transgender people is disrespectful and hateful. I don't who I may be going against you know absolutely nothing about me, who I know or what I have experienced. That statement means nothing.

    I don't think you actually do understand the complexity of the issue. Once again you stereotype. You may struggle to understand that I am typing this with no external influence....I have no agenda and no slogans stop trying to build a smokescreen around your lack of respect.

    - I support womens rights. There is a long history of disregard, discrimination and a lack of respect against woman and I don't support that. I also don't support discrimination against those who are transgender.

    - There has been progress but there is still a long way to come in regards to pay, cultural change, discrimination, domestic violence among many other things.

    - I will not be stereotyped or bullied by someone about being a male. I have nothing but respect for woman and you CANNOT make comments about me without actually knowing who I am and what I have experienced. So shame on you. You are a hypocrite. You disrespect me by championing womens rights and their place in society yet treat me as a male like absolute trash undermining my rights and position in society. You also go on to undermined transgender people as well. What a double standard you have.

    Yes females should be involved in sport. Males should be involved in sport. Transgender people should be involved in sport.

    It depends on the situation. I am not going to grant females this protective shield that ensures they win everything in society. In a workplace or sport where men and woman wilfully go up against one another if a woman beats a man or a man beats a woman its to be accepted.
    You openly support discrimination against females on behalf of males who want to enter female-only competition - no different than claiming old men like you should be able to play football on a team limited to little children - "because you feel young."

    The majority of MTF are gay. There are exceptions, like Renae - and accordingly Renae fully acknowledges the physiological differences between someone born with the generic SEX of male over female, which is an entirely different matter than "gender."

    No, you look down on females, you are fine with - even support - females being punished, basically banned, from serious athletics SPECIFICALLY because of what makes them female from evolution - all related to childbearing and childrearing. Everything that actually is the difference between females and males are all traits NO MTF transgender nor transexual can every obtain.

    Males don't have the weight of breasts.
    Males don't have wide hips.
    Males don't have shorter legs per height for a lower center of gravity - safer in pregnancy and carrying a child on her wide hip not to trip and fall.
    Females burn less calories per food consumption - being more efficient with food because sometimes she'll be eating for 2 and because when food becomes scarce, males tend to eat first - this means also slower energy conversion to muscles usage. Males don't have a menstrual cycle.

    EVERYTHING in real terms that separates females from males are all traits NO transgender can ever have BECAUSE THEY ALL RELATE TO PREGNANCY, CHILDBIRTH and FEEDING children with her own body. Greater physical power is how males have always been able to dominate women - literally by beating them. You fully support males beating women. Physically beating them - claiming it is because you feel sorry for transgender males and don't give a damn about any female who won't accept she was born to be beaten by men - her punishment for being female by males if she enters any athletic competition.

    You have NO respect for what makes a female a female. I don't give a damn if a male wants to think of him/herself as a "woman." Gender has NOTHING to do with athletics.

    For the rules, I can not really write my true opinion of men who support such grotesque abuse and trivialization of females as you in your message. I read NOTHING indicating ANY respect of females - only you sobbing for men who want to steal from females, being too much losers to compete against other males nor competing against others like themselves.

    Loser men like women to be beaten. Such men are scum, regardless of their diversionary rationalizations.

    As women increasingly enter athletics and gain income and benefits that otherwise still would 100% go to males, males like you found a way to get male to beat - literally physically beat in physical competitions - females. Don't pretend you believe in equality nor actually do respect females in TRUE respect. I respect females because of what makes them female. YOU declare that is NOTHING, absolutely nothing. You claim what makes them female is NOTHING, irrelevant to being a woman. You could not more insult and trivialize females.
    Last edited by joko104; 02-16-20 at 11:39 PM.
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    Re: Should Catlyn Jenner's medals and awards be taken from her?

    Quote Originally Posted by Crosscheck View Post
    Yes, we need to go back into time and correct wrongs.

    Trump needs to go back in time correct the wrong he did and remarry his first wife. The Real Mrs. Donald Trump.

    Attachment 67273907
    ^ Your message is grotesque hate mongering against elderly women. But hate is the core of progressive dogma. Without hatred, there is little left.
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    Re: Should Catlyn Jenner's medals and awards be taken from her?

    Quote Originally Posted by goldkam View Post

    I am not going to grant females this protective shield that ensures they win everything in society. In a workplace or sport where men and woman wilfully go up against one another if a woman beats a man or a man beats a woman its to be accepted.
    I dissected that paragraph out. Rather than write it all out, that indicates serious hang-ups and declared victimhood by you by females. That paragraph reads like it is straight out of incel materials.

    The topic is not how you suffer across all of society as a male by evil females or your perception of discrimination against males on behalf of females. This topic is singular - genetic males entering female-only athletic competitions being genetic males. Nothing else.

    It has nothing to do with "wilfully." That's why those 3 are suing, isn't it?

    You accept males beating women in physical competitions limited only to females. Of course you do. You even declare is should be a human and civil right males have towards females.
    Last edited by joko104; 02-16-20 at 11:59 PM.
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