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Non-marital sex

Good4Nothin said:
No, I do NOT think it's morally wrong. But I think it defies human nature. We are naturally jealous and possessive of someone we love enough to have sex with. Many human societies have been monogamous.

HOWEVER, going back to our primate ancestors, males usually had multiple females. And in human societies, kings and rich men usually had multiple females.

So for men, it's probably different. Women are usually jealous and monogamous. It's a problem that men and women are so different about sex.

Of course SOME women like casual sex. I never did.
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I'd say it's much more than some. Plenty of women enjoy casual sex. Plenty of my friends have one- night stands at parties, through Tinder, etc.
 
TheGoverness said:
I'd say it's much more than some. Plenty of women enjoy casual sex. Plenty of my friends have one- night stands at parties, through Tinder, etc.
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They aren't worried about catching STDs?
 
Good4Nothin said:
I have been wondering what is "normal" for people who are single later in life, because of death or divorce, or whatever. What is the average length of time people see each other before getting intimate?

I realize there isn't one definite number, and it depends on the person, etc., etc. I am just looking for very general vague indications.

I only had 2 romantic relationships in my life, the most recent one lasted over 30 years, and he died a couple of years ago. So now I am not at all sure what is normal when you're single.

I have been told that after 4 months of seeing each other it would be very strange to not have sex. I think people naturally want to test drive a car before buying it. But I want to know if the car is safe before test driving it.
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Results showed the average person polled would wait until date eight in an ideal world before taking things to the bedroom. The study, by Groupon, found men feel sex is appropriate at any point from date five onward, but women would rather wait until date nine, on average.

how many dates before sex - Google Search



Have sex when you want to. If you don't want to, don't have it.
 
TheGoverness said:
Considering his post history, that is what he's talking about.
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...when one cannot find True love for free under Capitalism, it may seem like one should resort to some market friendly transaction.

If only,

there were nice women who insist on breaking in the new guy for free under our form of Capitalism, by claiming it is for the social sake of Equality. And dump us when they are done And bored with us.
 
American said:
Sounds like prostitution, what are you talking about?
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I don't like seeing anybody short-changed. Normally, it's men who spend a small fortune and get absolutely nothing in return. Sometimes it's a woman that puts out and doesn't get the gratitude that's due her.
 
Good4Nothin said:
Yes. He said we can just love each other and be friends. But then he could wind up with someone else.
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The more you cost him in terms of effort and expense, the faster he will evaluate the ROI of the situation. If you want to lower the temperature, pay for some of the date and recognize that his time is valuable.
 
SDET said:
I don't like seeing anybody short-changed. Normally, it's men who spend a small fortune and get absolutely nothing in return. Sometimes it's a woman that puts out and doesn't get the gratitude that's due her.
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I never let him pay the whole bill at a restaurant. That's based on the old fashioned idea that only men work and have money.
 
Good4Nothin said:
I have been wondering what is "normal" for people who are single later in life, because of death or divorce, or whatever. What is the average length of time people see each other before getting intimate?

I realize there isn't one definite number, and it depends on the person, etc., etc. I am just looking for very general vague indications.

I only had 2 romantic relationships in my life, the most recent one lasted over 30 years, and he died a couple of years ago. So now I am not at all sure what is normal when you're single.

I have been told that after 4 months of seeing each other it would be very strange to not have sex. I think people naturally want to test drive a car before buying it. But I want to know if the car is safe before test driving it.
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Tell him to show you some STD screening results.
 
MrPeanut said:
What do you want? Whatever it is, that's what you should do.
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I want love, friendship, fun, affection. I want non-sexual touching that MAYBE could eventually lead to intercourse. I don't want a man to expect me to have multiple orgasms -- I can't, not all women can. I don't want oral sex. I always did it, but I didn't like it. I don't want anyone to grab my clitoris -- it's more sensitive than you men realize, and nature never intended it to be even touched directly.

I never was able to talk about sex and say exactly what I wanted. My bf was extremely loving and considerate, but he did what he heard all women loved. That wasn't what I love. I don't like talking about sex. And even if I did talk about it, no one ever listened.

Women are not all the same. And even the same women isn't the same at all times.
 
Good4Nothin said:
All the worries I have outweigh any desire. My real desire is to continue the nice, affectionate, nonsexual relationship we have been having. But it's making him very unhappy not doing the thing that he, and most men, loves more than anything. He was talking about it almost from the beginning.

The thought of having a conversation about STDs is really stressful to me. I feel like it would be so much easier to forget about sex. Truthfully, it is not my top priority anymore. But I love hugging and kissing and being affectionate.
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Big red flag. Don't compromise your desires because his priorities are different. In my experience, the little red flags end up being the fires that burn the whole thing down.
 
Good4Nothin said:
I never let him pay the whole bill at a restaurant. That's based on the old fashioned idea that only men work and have money.
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It's not always old-fashioned. Some women don't work and don't have money. The difference is that a woman that doesn't work and have money can still be desirable for a man. Very few women find a man that doesn't work nor have money to be desirable. Would you be interested in a broke, unemployed guy?
 
SDET said:
The more you cost him in terms of effort and expense, the faster he will evaluate the ROI of the situation. If you want to lower the temperature, pay for some of the date and recognize that his time is valuable.
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I always pay half at restaurants. As far as I can tell, he isn't rich and has too many kids to take care of. I am very careful to not be another kid he has to pay for.
 
SDET said:
It's not always old-fashioned. Some women don't work and don't have money. The difference is that a woman that doesn't work and have money can still be desirable for a man. Very few women find a man that doesn't work nor have money to be desirable. Would you be interested in a broke, unemployed guy?
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Nah. Maybe if I was very rich and could afford to support him. But that would give me the upper hand in the relationship and most men probably would hate that.
 
Good4Nothin said:
I want love, friendship, fun, affection. I want non-sexual touching that MAYBE could eventually lead to intercourse. I don't want a man to expect me to have multiple orgasms -- I can't, not all women can. I don't want oral sex. I always did it, but I didn't like it. I don't want anyone to grab my clitoris -- it's more sensitive than you men realize, and nature never intended it to be even touched directly.

I never was able to talk about sex and say exactly what I wanted. My bf was extremely loving and considerate, but he did what he heard all women loved. That wasn't what I love. I don't like talking about sex. And even if I did talk about it, no one ever listened.

Women are not all the same. And even the same women isn't the same at all times.
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That is incredibly true. My wife only started having orgasms after I stated dating other women. You never know what triggers any given person has. I was prepared for my wife to divorce me. It turned out that she wants to watch instead.
 
Good4Nothin said:
All the worries I have outweigh any desire. My real desire is to continue the nice, affectionate, nonsexual relationship we have been having. But it's making him very unhappy not doing the thing that he, and most men, loves more than anything. He was talking about it almost from the beginning.
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Uh. That's sort of a red flag that that's what he values you for.

The thought of having a conversation about STDs is really stressful to me. I feel like it would be so much easier to forget about sex. Truthfully, it is not my top priority anymore. But I love hugging and kissing and being affectionate.
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Well you are correct that it's more important to men, and that difference between men and women grows with age, I have been given to understand, as women's sexual desire (already generally lower) falls far faster, far more. But, you are far too high-value to be simply another thing for him to ride and potentially pass a disease on to.


I think you are worth more, and should know your worth in a relationship. If he disagrees, I say, the problem is with him, not you.
 
cpwill said:
Uh. That's sort of a red flag that that's what he values you for.



Well you are correct that it's more important to men, and that difference between men and women grows with age, I have been given to understand, as women's sexual desire (already generally lower) falls far faster, far more. But, you are far too high-value to be simply another thing for him to ride and potentially pass a disease on to.


I think you are worth more, and should know your worth in a relationship. If he disagrees, I say, the problem is with him, not you.
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Sigh. Maybe I have to give up on him. From the beginning, he seemed crazy in love with me. He loves everything about me. But maybe that's just the horniness talking.
 
Good4Nothin said:
Sigh. Maybe I have to give up on him. From the beginning, he seemed crazy in love with me. He loves everything about me. But maybe that's just the horniness talking.
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:( I'm sorry. But, from the outside looking in, that is what you seem to be describing :(.

Sexual desire isn't bad, and it can strengthen relationships.... but the value of someone isn't determined by how quickly in your relationship you get to Ride them. :-/

Sent from my Moto G (5S) Plus using Tapatalk
 
cpwill said:
:( I'm sorry. But, from the outside looking in, that is what you seem to be describing :(.

Sexual desire isn't bad, and it can strengthen relationships.... but the value of someone isn't determined by how quickly in your relationship you get to Ride them. :-/

Sent from my Moto G (5S) Plus using Tapatalk
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So, I am wondering -- if he REALLY did love me as much as he claims he does, wouldn't he have patience and wait as long as it takes? Instead, he recently gave an ultimatum, saying he has given up waiting and if someone else comes along he'll go for it.

He has changed his mind several times already. And he has talked about a former girlfriend, saying maybe they would get back together. And then denies it, saying that would never happen.

And sometimes he tells me his ex wife is beautiful. Well, if he and I were really serious that would make me angry and jealous.
 
Good4Nothin said:
I think people naturally want to test drive a car before buying it. But I want to know if the car is safe before test driving it.
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That is the absolute stupidest argument I've heard for having sex there is. And I've heard it for years.

1) What if you love someone and the sex is poor or disappointing? Are you simply going to break up with them then? That is what the entire "test drive" argument would suggest.
2) Sexual compatibility or whatever its called is seldom something you arrive at by having sex with someone once, twice, or dozens of time. For more than a few couples it takes months and even years before they arrive at the point where they both are enjoying their sex life with each other. And even then changes occur over time.
 
Good4Nothin said:
I have been wondering what is "normal" for people who are single later in life, because of death or divorce, or whatever. What is the average length of time people see each other before getting intimate?

I realize there isn't one definite number, and it depends on the person, etc., etc. I am just looking for very general vague indications.

I only had 2 romantic relationships in my life, the most recent one lasted over 30 years, and he died a couple of years ago. So now I am not at all sure what is normal when you're single.

I have been told that after 4 months of seeing each other it would be very strange to not have sex. I think people naturally want to test drive a car before buying it. But I want to know if the car is safe before test driving it.
Click to expand...

Ultimately its your body and you decide what you will or will not permit, entirely based on your morality and emotional needs. If this guy cannot accept that, he is not the right guy for you in the long term as disagreements over sexuality will often breed resentment on the less satisfied partner.

Having boundaries is a good thing and never something to be ashamed of. In that sense there is no "normal" there is only two individuals and what they can agree to.
 
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