[W:363]accepting gay as normal

Divine_Wind · Feb 25, 2020

captaintrips said:
Right, all Christians aren't like that. They're all very different.

And everybodye has their own preferred ways of interpreting reality. Interpreting religious scriptures & texts are even MORE wide open to differing interpretings, given how many sects & denominations there are even in other religions !

This mode of communication does have certain limits & challenges that probably make it too easy to incorrectly judge one another by.

Agreed on all points.

On the last point, I'm assuming you mean text posts.

captaintrips · Feb 25, 2020

Dutch Uncle said:
Agreed on all points.

On the last point, I'm assuming you mean text posts.

Yes, that's what I'm talking about.

Talking face to face - our natural, favored and ideal way - is still best.

People in my own family have almost disowned other family members because of "inarticulate" writings, via electronic communications.

Expecting a bunch of strangers online to talk about politics without some bad emotions happening ...... that''s a wild-eyed expectation LOL

calamity · Feb 25, 2020

Lisa said:
Christians don't get a pass on being called out on their hypocrisy just because of our religious freedoms. I'm not picking on all Christians because there are many sects that aren't homophobic or transphobic bigots.

I'm not singling out Christians only because I don't give any other religions a pass either.

A few years ago there was a giant conference where Jews, Christians and Muslims all came together. Guess what they were confabbing about?

Hating Gays.

Bosnia's Religions Unite Against Gay Marriages | Balkan Insight

captaintrips · Feb 25, 2020

calamity said:
A few years ago there was a giant conference where Jews, Christians and Muslims all came together. Guess what they were confabbing about?

Hating Gays.

Bosnia's Religions Unite Against Gay Marriages | Balkan Insight

and then at the end of the conference, a certain group of serious followers of their faith, detonated their explosive vests and that was the end of THAT LOL

Sorry, not very politically correct ; )

captaintrips · Feb 27, 2020

We want to be sure & separate "homosexuals" from pedophiles - Am I correct ?

That's what we've been attempting to do here.

but. .

It seems to be that the majority of these abuses come from MEN. Homosexual men.

There is a very significant difference in numbers when we examine lesbians abusing kids. That's worth pointing out I think.

We can TRY to claim that these abuses in the Catholic church and the Boy Scouts were only performed by "pedophiles."

Why DO these "pedophiles" seem to only sexually abuse BOYS ?

Nothing to do with homosexuality, no nothing... nothing really nothing...

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The American Professional Society on the Abuse of Children stated flatly that “the vast majority of the offenders are male.”

Journal of Sex & Married Therapy, in a study of male sex offenders against children, found that one-third of the offenders directed their sexual activity against males.

And the Journal of Sex Research found that homosexual pedophiles commit about one-third of the total number of sex offenses against children. Homosexuals comprise just two percent of the population, yet are responsible for 33% of all instances of child sexual abuse.

The Archives of Sexual Behavior, in a study of 229 convicted child molesters, found that “eighty-six percent of offenders against males described themselves as homosexual or bisexual.”

..research into the priesthood scandal in the Roman Catholic Church reveals that 81% of the victims of clergy abuse are young boys.

Homosexual pedophilia destroyed the Boy Scouts

roguenuke · Feb 27, 2020

Lisa said:
It would be refreshing if conservative Christians followed the teachings of the person who they claim to be the son of god and their personal savior instead of cherry-picking passages of the Old Testament that don't apply to them merely because they can hide their bigotry behind the religious freedoms and somehow make it protected and socially acceptable. The fact that these Christians don't obey all of Leviticus is very obvious.

https://pics.me.me/i-do-whatever-the-bible-tells-me-to-except-for-6687601.png

Jesus was not a hateful bigot who supported discrimination.
Matthew 7:1.

Matthew 7:12

Luke 6:31.

What would be refreshing is if they actually told the truth about situations rather than insist on peddling right wing rag magazine lies like "they went in search of a florist/baker who they knew would refuse them service". In most of the cases we've seen go to court, no one searched for someone who they knew would refuse them service. I'm sure someone could find one, but the biggest ones have no evidence that they knew they would be refused service by those bakers/florists.

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CLAX1911 · Mar 1, 2020

captaintrips said:
Ok.

Now lets address the rest of the matter that's relevant to the real issue.

The conclusion offered at your ucdavis study offers the following;

There is also; ".. no scientific basis for asserting that they are NOT more likely than heterosexual men to do so."

I wonder how we could ferret out such a thing ? MAYBE via the following information which I've previously provided ...

Earlier you wrote -

Originally Posted by Lisa View Post

It was noted in my original post # 592 that;

" ..Within a decade of its 1910 founding, the BSA began keeping internal files on “ineligible” scouting volunteers, known as “the perversion files.”

and that;

"..starting in 1988, all adult applicants were subjected to aggressive background screening. The organization promptly removed any scout leaders based on mere suspicion and alerted law enforcement in about a third of the cases. Nonetheless, between 1970 and 1991, up to .04% of Boy Scouts may have been molested. That’s about 2,000 out of several million boys..."

and that;

"...Homosexuals were allowed into the Boy Scouts. The BSA is now experiencing an epidemic of sexual misconduct and lawsuits. This was not the case prior to their admittance of homosexuals into the organization...."

It does not say there were never any sexual misconduct and lawsuits prior, it says there is now an epidemic of sexual misconduct and lawsuits since that decision in 2015.

As I have said over & over;

"..to show that there is ZERO connection to the Boy Scouts bankruptcy filing, and it's 2015 decision to allow open homosexuals to be a part of the Boy Scouts, we have to show that most or ALL of these cases occurred before that, or that there was no significant jump in cases SINCE 2015, when open homosexuals were allowed to join Boy Scouts."

What I see are a lot of mis-directions & denials, no evidence that truly disconnects the higher incidence of abuses that occurred since the 2015 decision.

Draw your own conclusions. We know there are those that will defend certain lifestyles, no matter what negative evidence is found against them.

Personally, I am not claiming that homosexuals are child molesters. That wouldn't be complete or accurate.

BUT, the matter might require further investigation, even though it IS a sensitive issue currently....

If we're going by the law of averages, and you're justifying Banning someone based on their sexuality, it's far more likely that men will molest boys then women. So you should be advocating the removal of men from the program.

Then there's the tistics that shows that the majority of child molestation occurs in religious organizations.

So if this was about protecting children from molestation you would be advocating removal of men and removal of ties to religious organizations these are actually far greater indicators of a child being molested then someone's sexual orientation.

So I don't buy this for a second that it's about protecting children. I think it's more about protecting boys from having a gay male role model. I think that's what it was always about and it never was about molestation. Because again if it was the first group you would want to purge his men.

CLAX1911 · Mar 1, 2020

captaintrips said:
Agree.

The ones doing these things though, the "gaystapo" likely aren't all that interested in a joyous wedding and all that.

They're mostly interested in causing trouble to those "damn Christians who believe that Bible stuff"...

... they hate that. Motivated by hate, not love.

Show us the love gay people, leave the damn Christians alone ! - they're sinners too, some of the worst, so why give them more trouble than they have already ??

That's certainly not all gay people. I get what you're saying about the "gaystappo" although these days it seems to be more about the "transstapo." But there is the talibornagain. And they absolutely exist. They tend not to be very popular these days.

But I understand most Christians aren't like that. You should try to understand that most gay people aren't like that.

As far as leaving Kristen's alone outside of a few isolated incidents I don't know that Christians are being messed with particularly by gay people.

This is an identity politics issue just like every other sjw issue there is. I am a gay person. I don't have any control over anybody else because they're gay lesbian bisexual or even transgender. Just like you don't have control over some of the more bigoted Christians. So the only thing you can do is ask for understanding. as long as you say the gays are out to get you, they will be.

To be honest I'm personally very curious about the talibornagain types, but I don't really feel the need to interfere or provoke because that's what they want.

I remember a friend of mine leaving the Jehovah's witness church, he was telling me how when they would go "soul winning" that when they first started they wouldn't take them to the houses of the people that would sick dogs on them or do something inappropriate. They use that to indoctrinate people into the ideology. This works in various other ways.

I've been to a few cried marches and seeing the guys running around with the bull horns. A lot of young people they're really try to aggravate them we've been coming to that for 30 years they're not going to be tricked into it. so the best thing to do is shake their hand say God bless you and move on. once they realize you're not an adversary they will find somewhere else to fight.

CLAX1911 · Mar 1, 2020

captaintrips said:
Genius !! .. no one said they were the same thing ; )

No matter, ...

Let's pretend that what happened didn't happen.

Facts stink I know, not my fault : )

The topic perpetuates more of the illness by making it seem to be a legitimate topic of discussion. It is not.

It's an illness we're perpetuating and these people need help. That is the only thing worth discussing.

I'm sorry I don't buy this compassion.

it strikes me more as disgust masquerading as compassion.

If people need help, and you think it's right to help them, you have to first figure out how. And if gay people are broken are you broken and some other way? Don't reach to pluck a splinter from your brother's eye if you can't see the beam in your own.

So first things first if this really is about helping people, you have to figure out what's wrong not what they're doing that bothers you but why they're doing it. Until Christianity does that they can't help anybody. It's like using broken tools to fix a broken machine.

One of my biggest frustrations dealing with Christians on this issue is they never listen. So I take this to mean they don't care. All they want to do is sneer with contempt. Of course not all Christians just the ones who insist other people are ill and need help but do nothing to help.

So being that is the case and a big chunk of the population Christianity is there for an enemy, not because gay people wanted them to be an enemy but Because Christians don't care.

Christianity is in decline in the West and I think that is because it has become stagnant and dead because it's more about self-righteous ideology then it is about evangelism and helping others.

People are walking away not because they are angry with the church but because the church is not their home anymore, it isn't a place for solace and sanctuary. It is becoming more of a social club that won't tolerate outsiders infer any group that wishes to grow that is a dagger through it's heart.

CLAX1911 · Mar 1, 2020

Lisa said:
There is nothing to suggest that gay and transgdered people are child molesters just because you believe that they are. You are making this positive claim and you need to prove it to be true. You are somehow convinced because they are not heterosexual, despite the fact that transgendered people are very often heterosexual in their gender identity means that automatically they are perverts who molest children.

https://barcc.org/assets/img/Statistics_Download_-_LGBT.pdf

The ban on homosexuals in the boy scouts was never about molestation. It was about preventing boys from having a gay male role model.

I was in the program from a very small youth all the way up until my 18th birthday. And in my lifetime it has been controlled mostly by the Mormon church. Not directly just the national committee board members were Mormon.

The Mormon church is responsible for more child molestation then gay men. In fact religious institutions in general are responsible for a good chunk of child sexual abuse in our society. And it makes sense because we don't want people to think that there's a child rapist church so they cover it up instead of telling the truth. They want you to believe that they are the light in the way and they include probably some of the most egregious offenses and probably the greatest number of offenses.

So if it was about protecting children from sexual abuse number one first and foremost you would remove men from the organization because men are far more likely to molest children then women are. Then you would advocate removing religious institutions from the program but you can't do that because it is a para religious organization.

When the LDS cut ties in 2015 over this they took 400000 members with them. I think that's probably far more detrimental a few gay people being leaders.

CLAX1911 · Mar 1, 2020

Quag said:
Bolded is rather ironic

I think it's very rare that people are motivated by hate. I think more often they are motivated by indifference. Hate is a raw emotion and can change. You've probably seen this in yourself. Maybe when you were young maybe when you were a child, you say that you hate someone that you truly love. You may have meant it in that moment but it's time goes by you realize you were being irrational and you apologized and agreed not to tell this person you hate them anymore.

Indifference is evil. Indifference never cared and never will. I am told I am broken and the only one that can help me is me. This goes against Christianity i
And jesus's own words.

They told me I should abstain from life. It is my choice to seek someone to connect with. They damn sure won't connect with me. And it's not a sacrifice they're willing to make.

Maybe if I saw that from heterosexual Christians more I would be more apt to believe they were compassionate. It is not their burden so they don't care. They are indifferent, no boiling heat of anger and no warmth of love. Just cold indifference.

It's too hard to say "I don't know" especially if you adhere to an ideology.

One of the things that frustrate me the most when I give these people a chance and open up to them is they don't care about helping they don't care about listening and understanding the only care about having a positive answer for everything. Because their religion has to be the end-all and be-all. If they say I don't know or they offer any open-minded discussion they might have to re-evaluate their belief system and if it's the end-all and be-all there can be no re-evaluation.

Quag · Mar 1, 2020

CLAX1911 said:
I think it's very rare that people are motivated by hate. I think more often they are motivated by indifference. Hate is a raw emotion and can change. You've probably seen this in yourself. Maybe when you were young maybe when you were a child, you say that you hate someone that you truly love. You may have meant it in that moment but it's time goes by you realize you were being irrational and you apologized and agreed not to tell this person you hate them anymore.

Indifference is evil. Indifference never cared and never will. I am told I am broken and the only one that can help me is me. This goes against Christianity i
And jesus's own words.

They told me I should abstain from life. It is my choice to seek someone to connect with. They damn sure won't connect with me. And it's not a sacrifice they're willing to make.

Maybe if I saw that from heterosexual Christians more I would be more apt to believe they were compassionate. It is not their burden so they don't care. They are indifferent, no boiling heat of anger and no warmth of love. Just cold indifference.

It's too hard to say "I don't know" especially if you adhere to an ideology.

One of the things that frustrate me the most when I give these people a chance and open up to them is they don't care about helping they don't care about listening and understanding the only care about having a positive answer for everything. Because their religion has to be the end-all and be-all. If they say I don't know or they offer any open-minded discussion they might have to re-evaluate their belief system and if it's the end-all and be-all there can be no re-evaluation.

Mostly god points but if it was indifference then they wouldn't care or bother enough to be against homosexuality.

CLAX1911 · Mar 1, 2020

Quag said:
Mostly god points but if it was indifference then they wouldn't care or bother enough to be against homosexuality.

The indifference is to the people.

Court Jester · Mar 1, 2020