[W:363]accepting gay as normal

captaintrips said:

Carefully read post #592

Click to expand...

RAMOSS said:

They have the ones with chocolate chips .. (and don't worry, we used up all the flies in the raisin bread).

"Waiter waiter, there is a fly in my soup"
"Impossible, we used them all up in the cookies."

Click to expand...

roguenuke said:

Not a fan of chocolate chips, I prefer raisins.

Sent from my SM-N970U using Tapatalk

Click to expand...

captaintrips said:

I'll TRY to connect the dots for you.... you're aware of the "gay" issue the boy scouts have had, you should be, this IS a political forum, NOT a knitting circle for grandmas.

SO ...you'll be aware that the matter was pushed so hard by the gay Gestapo, that the Boy Scouts gave in & decided to allow "gays" into the Boy Scouts, even into leadership positions. . . you can read the article I provided - there's even a link ! Fancy NO ? ; )

So "gays" were allowed into the Boy Scouts. The article exposes the results of that decision.

Deny it, say it ain't so, pretend you're unable to comprehend the connection... that's an issue only you can resolve & I'll leave you to it.



Yes, Coulter & worldnut daily - two favorite sources for liberals to hate - because neither are afraid of exposing the idiocies and nasty results of liberal ideas.

Then you offer a clever statement on how pedophiles and gays have NO connection. . . even though the connection is clearly made, given the exposed results.

Lie, deny, call Ann a lesbian.

Now - I'll save you time, you're welcome - you get to say I'm a closeted gay, because I'm offering evidence showing how recent events illustrate a connection to homosexuality & pedophilia.

The topic is "accepting gay as normal."

Which we mostly have done in America.

We're seeing some of the results.

Some of us don't like that.

Click to expand...

Lisa said:

Prefering raisins over chocolate is subversive.

Click to expand...

Lisa said:

Prefering raisins over chocolate is subversive.

Click to expand...

Quag said:

Agreed raisins should be in the chocolate not replacing the chocolate

Click to expand...

Quag said:

lol gay gestapo

Pedophilia isn't the same thing as homosexuality

Click to expand...

Quag said:

lol gay gestapo

Pedophilia isn't the same thing as homosexuality

Click to expand...

captaintrips said:

Genius !! .. no one said they were the same thing ; )

No matter, ...

Let's pretend that what happened didn't happen.

Facts stink I know, not my fault : )

The topic perpetuates more of the illness by making it seem to be a legitimate topic of discussion. It is not.

It's an illness we're perpetuating and these people need help. That is the only thing worth discussing.

Click to expand...

roguenuke said:

What is illness is believing that gays are responsible for people reacting negatively to them. That is all on those who cant handle different people and think they are bad for being different, or worse group them together with people who really are doing bad things just because they prefer to profile people, groups, rather than getting to know them.

Of course, another illness actually is Captain Trips, better known as the superflu from The Stand.

Sent from my SM-N970U using Tapatalk

Click to expand...

roguenuke said:

I like me some raisins in the chocolate. Cadbury fruit & nut bars are my favorite chocolate bars.

Sent from my SM-N970U using Tapatalk

Click to expand...

captaintrips said:

Genius !! .. no one said they were the same thing ; )

No matter, ...

Let's pretend that what happened didn't happen.

Facts stink I know, not my fault : )

The topic perpetuates more of the illness by making it seem to be a legitimate topic of discussion. It is not.

It's an illness we're perpetuating and these people need help. That is the only thing worth discussing.

Click to expand...

Quag said:

Well that was a whole lot of incomprehensibel nonsense, but I did gather you comprehend that pedophelia and homosexuality ar not the same thing so maybe this time you can try to make a coherent post explaining what the boy scouts has to do with the OP

Click to expand...

captaintrips said:

I know facts, information & data we don't care for will be ignored, denied, dismissed whatever. You can pretend it's incomprehensible nonsense if you like.

But...

It's information that MAY assist those capable of logical analyses. Again, what happened that relates this matter to the boy scouts, homosexuality and pedophilia.

Those unable to discern the likely connections, because they don't want there to be any, have their own personal issues that I'm not interested in examining.

We're talking again about the boy scouts, what happened when they decided to allow "homosexuals" to be involved with the boy scouts.

The level of nastiness and wild-eyed denials and insults directed at people pointing this out, is very telling

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

It was bad to let "gays" join the boy scouts.. Boy Scouts are going bankrupt !!

Headline; Boy Scouts Files Chapter 11 Bankruptcy in the Face of Thousands of Child Abuse Allegations

The lawsuits have killed them. .. the BSA has been whiplashed into bankruptcy by liberals demanding, on one hand, that the scouts allow gays to be troop leaders and, on the other hand, filing lawsuits accusing the scouts of not taking strong enough measures to prevent gay troop leaders from molesting boys.

Boy Scouts of America (BSA) filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection after mounting sexual abuse claims..victims in over two dozen states, the cases represent "thousands of perpetrators" and "tens of thousands of victims."

In July of 2015, the Boy Scouts of America announced that it was lifting its national ban on homosexual adult leaders. This came after years of activist pressure, during which the BSA was encouraged to admit homosexual Scouts, Scout leaders and, finally, girls to their ranks. Homosexuals were allowed into the Boy Scouts. The BSA is now experiencing an epidemic of sexual misconduct and lawsuits.

This was not the case prior to their admittance of homosexuals into the organization....denying the correlation is as irrational as denying the existence of gravity.

See post# 592 for more details

Essentially, what we have here are certain people, liberals/progressives whatever, denying, lying about, or pretending that the clear connection doesn't exist.

It does

It's right there for the world to see

Again

In July of 2015, the Boy Scouts of America announced that it was lifting its national ban on homosexual adult leaders.

Homosexuals were allowed into the Boy Scouts. The BSA is now experiencing an epidemic of sexual misconduct and lawsuits.

This was not the case prior to their admittance of homosexuals into the organization...

1. In 2015 the Boy Scouts allowed open "homosexuals" into their organization

2. Since that time, the Boyscouts have had to file for bankruptcy due to thousands of child sex abuse suits & allegations filed against them

3. Conclusion - It is clear, since 2015, homosexuals were admitted into the Boy Scouts. Since that time, the Boy Scouts have had to file for bankruptcy due to thousands of child sex abuse suits & allegations filed against them. Whether or not the cause is that gay men are child-molesters or not is not the discussion. The discussion is the results we clearly see here.

Draw your own conclusions

Click to expand...

CriticalThought said:

All the incidents occurred before 2015. The most recent was 2006.

Former Orem Boy Scout leader sentenced in child sex abuse case | Orem News | heraldextra.com

Click to expand...

captaintrips said:

You located an incident that occurred before 2006.

I do not find anywhere in your cited article that states that all of the incidents cited above in post # 615, occurred before 2015 - when homosexuals were allowed to join the Boy Scouts.

I am not denying that there were such incidents before 2015, there have been child molesters around for as long as humans have existed.... not all are, or were homosexuals either.

BUT, to show that there is ZERO connection to the Boy Scouts bankruptcy filing, and it's 2015 decision to allow open homosexuals to be a part of the Boy Scouts, we have to show that most or ALL of these cases occurred before that, or that there was no significant jump in cases SINCE 2015, when open homosexuals were allowed to join Boy Scouts.

Perhaps that CAN be demonstrated ? I do not know ?

But that will be required if we want to really sever any connection here.

Click to expand...

In January, Santa Barbara County Superior Court Judge Donna Geck ordered all files dating to 1991 turned over to the boy’s lawyers but not made public.

In April, the Scouts filed a writ with the California 2nd District Court of Appeal, seeking to reverse Geck’s order. The group contends that the records must remain confidential to protect the privacy of victims, those who report abuse, and those wrongly accused.

“The BSA believes confidentiality of the files helps to encourage prompt reporting,” spokesman Deron Smith said. “The files are only one component of BSA’s established Youth Protection program.”

In October, more than 1,200 of the confidential files from 1965 to 1985 were made public by order of the Oregon Supreme Court, a decision that did not have a direct bearing on the California case.

Click to expand...

.During the first phase of the trial, Lewis' attorneys argued that the Boy Scouts of America failed to warn parents and boys of the danger of pedophiles within its ranks because it worried doing so would drive down membership and donations. The organization has documented thousands of suspected pedophiles in 'perversion' files since the 1920s, the Scouts said to keep the men from trying to sneak back into the organization.

In Lewis' case, assistant Scoutmaster Timur Dykes in 1983 admitted molesting 17 Scouts to a Scouting coordinator and bishop at the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints in Southeast Portland. Lewis' attorneys argued Dykes was allowed to continue in Scouting, and he went on to molest Lewis. The Oregonian, which usually protects the identity of sexual-abuse victims, is identifying Lewis after he gave permission.

Click to expand...

PORTLAND, Ore. -- Again and again, decade after decade, an array of authorities -- police chiefs, prosecutors, pastors and local Boy Scout leaders among them -- quietly shielded scoutmasters and others accused of molesting children, a newly opened trove of confidential papers shows.At the time, those authorities justified their actions as necessary to protect the good name and good works of Scouting, a pillar of 20th-century America. But, as detailed in 14,500 pages of secret "perversion files" released Thursday by order of the Oregon Supreme Court, their maneuvers allowed sexual predators to go free while victims suffered in silence.The files are a window on a much larger collection of documents the Boy Scouts of America began collecting soon after its founding in 1910.

Click to expand...

PORTLAND, Ore. — The Oregon Supreme Court on Thursday approved the release of 20,000 pages of so-called perversion files compiled by the Boy Scouts of America on suspected child molesters within the organization for more than 20 years, giving the public its first chance to review the records.

The files, gathered from 1965 to 1985, came to light when they were used as evidence in a landmark Oregon lawsuit in 2010. A jury awarded a record $18.5 million to a man who was molested by an assistant scoutmaster in the early 1980s, ruling that the Scouts failed to protect him.

Click to expand...

CriticalThought said:

I think it should be pretty obvious if there were "tens of thousands" of victims in the last 5 years then it would lead to a pretty loud reaction, particularly from those who opposed dropping the gay leader ban. These are older adults coming forward.

Court upholds order requiring Boy Scouts to release files - Los Angeles Times

BAD LAWYER: $18.5 Million, Punitives Against the Boy Scouts of America

Locals helped Boy Scouts cover up pedophilia | News | wvgazettemail.com

Oregon court releases 20,000 pages from Boy Scouts ‘Perversion Files’ - New York Daily News

Is that sufficient?

Click to expand...

captaintrips said:

Ask yourself that.

You have shown more cases that may have, or have occurred before open homosexuals were allowed into the Boy Scouts.

As already stated;

I am not denying that there were such incidents before 2015, there have been child molesters around for as long as humans have existed.... not all are, or were homosexuals either.

BUT, to show that there is ZERO connection to the Boy Scouts bankruptcy filing, and it's 2015 decision to allow open homosexuals to be a part of the Boy Scouts, we have to show that most or ALL of these cases occurred before that, or that there was no significant jump in cases SINCE 2015, when open homosexuals were allowed to join Boy Scouts.

Perhaps that CAN be demonstrated ? I do not know ?

But that will be required if we want to really sever any connection here.

Can you do that ? Highly doubtful. Do you have the time and resources needed to gather all of the real data required for that ? No. It would be a daunting project and may not even be possible with privacy laws etc., coupled with the fact that there are powerful people and LOTS of money paying to keep negative aspects of these matters regarding Americans new tastes for, and acceptance of sexual oddities shielded from, or hidden from us.

Click to expand...

The files, gathered from 1965 to 1985, came to light when they were used as evidence in a landmark Oregon lawsuit in 2010. A jury awarded a record $18.5 million to a man who was molested by an assistant scoutmaster in the early 1980s, ruling that the Scouts failed to protect him.

Click to expand...

Lisa said:

Did you bother to read your own link because it doesn't support your claim. Gay people were permitted in the Boy Scouts in 2015 but the abuses files start in 1865 and end in 1985, 30 years before gays were permitted to join. The BSA is a conservative christian organization and yet to blame gay people for the molestation.

Click to expand...

captaintrips said:

I did.

That you aren't connecting the dots, or seeing what my claim even is, is clear.

Let us pretend then that the matter is resolved and there IS no connection between the 2015 decision and the now bankrupt Scouts -shrugs- I really do not care, I have no investment in the matter.

Click to expand...

Conclusion

The empirical research does not show that gay or bisexual men are any more likely than heterosexual men to molest children. This is not to argue that homosexual and bisexual men never molest children. But there is no scientific basis for asserting that they are more likely than heterosexual men to do so. And, as explained above, many child molesters cannot be characterized as having an adult sexual orientation at all; they are fixated on children.

Click to expand...

Lisa said:

Do you have any proof that gay people are inherently more likely to be child molesters because I have proof that they are not?

Facts About Homosexuality and Child Molestation

Click to expand...

The empirical research does not show that gay or bisexual men are any more likely than heterosexual men to molest children. This is not to argue that homosexual and bisexual men never molest children. But there is no scientific basis for asserting that they are more likely than heterosexual men to do so. And, as explained above, many child molesters cannot be characterized as having an adult sexual orientation at all; they are fixated on children.

Click to expand...

Did you bother to read your own link because it doesn't support your claim. Gay people were permitted in the Boy Scouts in 2015 but the abuses files start in 1865 and end in 1985, 30 years before gays were permitted to join. The BSA is a conservative christian organization and yet to blame gay people for the molestation.

Click to expand...

captaintrips said:

The conclusion offered at your ucdavis study offers the following;



There is also; ".. no scientific basis for asserting that they are NOT more likely than heterosexual men to do so."

I wonder how we could ferret out such a thing ? MAYBE via the following information which I've previously provided ...

Earlier you wrote -

Originally Posted by Lisa View Post


It was noted in my original post # 592 that;

" ..Within a decade of its 1910 founding, the BSA began keeping internal files on “ineligible” scouting volunteers, known as “the perversion files.”

and that;

"..starting in 1988, all adult applicants were subjected to aggressive background screening. The organization promptly removed any scout leaders based on mere suspicion and alerted law enforcement in about a third of the cases. Nonetheless, between 1970 and 1991, up to .04% of Boy Scouts may have been molested. That’s about 2,000 out of several million boys..."


and that;

"...Homosexuals were allowed into the Boy Scouts. The BSA is now experiencing an epidemic of sexual misconduct and lawsuits. This was not the case prior to their admittance of homosexuals into the organization...."


It does not say there were never any sexual misconduct and lawsuits prior, it says there is now an epidemic of sexual misconduct and lawsuits since that decision in 2015.

As I have said over & over;

"..to show that there is ZERO connection to the Boy Scouts bankruptcy filing, and it's 2015 decision to allow open homosexuals to be a part of the Boy Scouts, we have to show that most or ALL of these cases occurred before that, or that there was no significant jump in cases SINCE 2015, when open homosexuals were allowed to join Boy Scouts."

What I see are a lot of mis-directions & denials, no evidence that truly disconnects the higher incidence of abuses that occurred since the 2015 decision.

Draw your own conclusions. We know there are those that will defend certain lifestyles, no matter what negative evidence is found against them.

Personally, I am not claiming that homosexuals are child molesters. That wouldn't be complete or accurate.

BUT, the matter might require further investigation, even though it IS a sensitive issue currently....

Click to expand...

Since the 1920s, the BSA has maintained a highly confidential set of "ineligible volunteer" files, nicknamed the "perversion files". On October 19, 2012, the Boy Scouts of America were forced by court order to release over 20,000 pages of documentation on 1200 alleged child sexual abuse cases within the organization, covering the time period from 1965 to 1985.

It has been alleged that BSA may have helped cover-up the abuse cases, sometimes with the aid of police and other officials, "to protect the good name and good works of Scouting." The reports showed incidents where accused abusers were allowed to continue in the Scouts and, in more than a third of the cases covered in the documents, information about the allegations was not passed on to police.

Click to expand...

Lisa said:

The doors to the " perversion files" were forced open after 2012 by the federal government. It had nothing to do with gay people being permitted to join BSA.

Click to expand...

The empirical research does not show that gay or bisexual men are any more likely than heterosexual men to molest children. This is not to argue that homosexual and bisexual men never molest children. But there is no scientific basis for asserting that they are more likely than heterosexual men to do so. And, as explained above, many child molesters cannot be characterized as having an adult sexual orientation at all; they are fixated on children.

Click to expand...

Did you bother to read your own link because it doesn't support your claim. Gay people were permitted in the Boy Scouts in 2015 but the abuses files start in 1865 and end in 1985, 30 years before gays were permitted to join. The BSA is a conservative christian organization and yet to blame gay people for the molestation.

Click to expand...

captaintrips said:

Ok.

Now lets address the rest of the matter that's relevant to the real issue.

The conclusion offered at your ucdavis study offers the following;



There is also; ".. no scientific basis for asserting that they are NOT more likely than heterosexual men to do so."

I wonder how we could ferret out such a thing ? MAYBE via the following information which I've previously provided ...

Earlier you wrote -

Originally Posted by Lisa View Post


It was noted in my original post # 592 that;

" ..Within a decade of its 1910 founding, the BSA began keeping internal files on “ineligible” scouting volunteers, known as “the perversion files.”

and that;

"..starting in 1988, all adult applicants were subjected to aggressive background screening. The organization promptly removed any scout leaders based on mere suspicion and alerted law enforcement in about a third of the cases. Nonetheless, between 1970 and 1991, up to .04% of Boy Scouts may have been molested. That’s about 2,000 out of several million boys..."


and that;

"...Homosexuals were allowed into the Boy Scouts. The BSA is now experiencing an epidemic of sexual misconduct and lawsuits. This was not the case prior to their admittance of homosexuals into the organization...."


It does not say there were never any sexual misconduct and lawsuits prior, it says there is now an epidemic of sexual misconduct and lawsuits since that decision in 2015.

As I have said over & over;

"..to show that there is ZERO connection to the Boy Scouts bankruptcy filing, and it's 2015 decision to allow open homosexuals to be a part of the Boy Scouts, we have to show that most or ALL of these cases occurred before that, or that there was no significant jump in cases SINCE 2015, when open homosexuals were allowed to join Boy Scouts."

What I see are a lot of mis-directions & denials, no evidence that truly disconnects the higher incidence of abuses that occurred since the 2015 decision.

Draw your own conclusions. We know there are those that will defend certain lifestyles, no matter what negative evidence is found against them.

Personally, I am not claiming that homosexuals are child molesters. That wouldn't be complete or accurate.

BUT, the matter might require further investigation, even though it IS a sensitive issue currently....

Click to expand...

n the 1920s, the organization began keeping confidential files on those volunteers prevented from serving due to allegations of child sex abuse. However, these weren’t released until 2012, when the Oregon Supreme Court ordered them made public.

A review by the University of Virginia found nearly 8,000 perpetrators and over 12,250 victims in these files from just 1944 through 2016. The LA Times also found hundreds of these cases were never reported to law enforcement, or were kept hidden from family members.

More recently, lawyers representing victims have noted the BSA files show as many as 14,000 children were abused by Scout leaders between just 1965 and 1985. Therefore, the total number of victims could be over 25,000.

Click to expand...