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Young transgender regret

Renae said:
It is a committee, but what do you do when the committee is afraid to say "no"?
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We have that in all walks of life now. So, yeah, it's an imperfect system.
 
Rich2018 said:
More reason to scrap gender on birth certificates.
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They don't put a person's "gender" on a birth certificate. They put a person's biological sex.

Sounds like you have fallen for the lie that gender and sex mean the same thing. They don't mean the same at all.
 
Amelia said:
Obviously it's complicated. Not one size fits all. Obviously qualified professionals without personal agenda need to determine whether it's merely "whims and phases" or something deeper.

Qualified professionals have to weigh whether the young person's dysphoria is so psychologically damaging that the potential harm of putting puberty on pause is less serious than the likely harm of not intervening.
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Psychiatry is NOT an exact science. Historically, every official stance of the psychiatric professional organizations will be radically changed or reversed every few decades. While it isn't 100% voodoo science, it isn't really science at all. Psychology particularly isn't society. It is sociology.

Don't lie. The potential harm of putting puberty on pause is massive and permanent.
 
The suicide rates for transexuals is HUGE and even higher than average for transgenders. But the pro-trans zealots who operate only on the slogan-of-this-year don't care about that.

Were I on a jury of an adult who sued his parents for putting him/her on hormones, let alone any surgery, to stunt or stop their sex development? I would give that young adult any economic judgement he wanted. Were I on a criminal jury, I would not hesitate to find such parents - and any professional involved - guilty of aggravated assault of a child - not just child abuse - and if sex organs were touched also aggravated sexual assault of a child. I would certainly vote to permanently take away such professional's license.

Claiming a pre-puberty child has a CLUE about sex is absurd. Mixing the words "gender" and "sex" to meaning the same has been the basis for the massive collection of lies and the justification for child-abuse-for-profit. These so-called experts don't make their hundreds of dollars an hour opposing messing with the natural physical development of a child. They make their 6 figure incomes signing off on condemning a child to the altered rest-of-life future the professional profitably decide upon.

The practice reminds me how in the ancient past the Catholic church would castrate young boys in the choir so their voices wouldn't change and men who guarded the king's harem would be castrated so they couldn't have sex with the women - all for the good of society and those boys and men too.

If an adult wants or needs hormone therapy to fit into 2019 social gender identity appearances, or wants full SRS to try to obtain the sexual of the opposite sex, that certainly is the person's right. Adults deciding to do so to a child is as unthinkable immoral, unethical and abusive as it gets.
 
Rickeroo said:
Full steam ahead satisfies two vested interests: the medical industry that gains business with drugs/surgeries, and a political party that can label one as "trans" and put them in a victim group. Both of these work against the individual.
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Do you have a superior treatment plan that has a better outcome for transgendered people? Do you have a degree in psychology or another relevant field? The fact that you may disagree with the current medical/psych' approach doesn't mean that your disagreement is valid or should be considered as a reasonable alternative.
 
joko104 said:
The suicide rates for transexuals is HUGE and even higher than average for transgenders. But the pro-trans zealots who operate only on the slogan-of-this-year don't care about that.

Was I on a jury of an adult who sued his parents for putting him/her on hormones, let alone any surgery, to stunt or stop their sex development? I would give that young adult any economic judgment he wanted. Were I on a criminal jury, I would not hesitate to find such parents - and any professional involved - guilty of aggravated assault of a child - not just child abuse - and if sex organs were touched also aggravated sexual assault of a child. I would certainly vote to permanently take away such professional's license.

Claiming a pre-puberty child has a CLUE about sex is absurd. Mixing the words "gender" and "sex" to meaning the same has been the basis for the massive collection of lies and the justification for child-abuse-for-profit. These so-called experts don't make their hundreds of dollars an hour opposing messing with the natural physical development of a child. They make their 6 figure incomes signing off on condemning a child to the altered rest-of-life future the professional profitably decide upon.

The practice reminds me how in the ancient past the Catholic church would castrate young boys in the choir so their voices wouldn't change and men who guarded the king's harem would be castrated so they couldn't have sex with the women - all for the good of society and those boys and men too.

If an adult wants or needs hormone therapy to fit into 2019 social gender identity appearances, or wants full SRS to try to obtain the sexual of the opposite sex, that certainly is the person's right. Adults deciding to do so to a child is as unthinkable immoral, unethical and abusive as it gets.
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It is very obvious that you don't have a clue about the treatment procedure because the parents play almost no active role in it, other than taking a child that doesn't have transportation of their own to the medical appointments. You keep making the erroneous claims that the parent has anything to do with the treatment decisions, which they do not. The parents do not decide that their child is trans nor do they have any significant input with the Drs. Any parent that took their children to the DR and said that put my child on hormones would be reported to child services for abuse.

Trans people have a high suicide rate because they are often physically and emotionally abused and thrown out on the streets or lose their jobs when they seek care. This PTSD is often untreated or poorly treated because of the mental health situation in the US is a joke. It is not the treatment that is causing the problems but it is instead society's rejection of them, often their own family. Stop hurting others and stop being bigots when persons come out as trans. Why does it seem that the Golden Rule is a difficult concept for many people to understand and obey?
Tomorrow is an important SCOTUS decision for the rights of trans people.

Gay and Transgender Youth Homelessness by the Numbers - Center for American Progress
 
Renae said:
I have no issues helping a young person who needs the help, I have a big problem with a system that is more interested an pushing an agenda than helping people, I've seen a lot of agenda pushing.
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You have cautiously and systematically gone thru the safe guards and tell of your rational skepticism. Renae, I am impressed by this.

I do know a lot of lesbians, gays, BIs, trans and drag queens. Some of them mix up sexual libido (particularly if young) with all the sloganism of LGBT activists.

10 year olds don't have a clue nor are even mentally developed. Young teens and even young adults can make really stupid spur-of-the-moment decisions, extremely influenced by peer pressure and their social circles.

What has been learned from the alarming suicide rates of transsexuals (SRS) is that the excitement of it can be great when young. They can be the hit of the party at bars and social gathers. That works in their 20s. But what about when in their 40s and 50s? What when the youthful attractiveness is gone?

What they have learned in the suicides is that evolutionary delay. As people age, their social life changes, their goals change and their perspectives change. There is no going back from SRS.

Simply, I don't oppose anything that is reversible within reason. Do whatever the person wants. No real risks. It is an entirely different matter when a child is permanently altered by chemicals or surgery. That child's born future was erased before the child was mentally and psychologically developed enough to have a clue - and becoming an adult they learn the decision was taken away from them by some guy with "DR" in front of his man, pocketing hundreds or thousands of dollars over this physical permanent alteration - and approved by his/her parents.

There is NO possible way to KNOW what a pre-puberty child will want sexually after puberty. Forget about "gender." Gender is all about social demands in the current era. Sex is about sex, the physical act of sex. Predicting it can be known what a pre-puberty child will want sexually as an adult is as clear an absurd claim as possible. Even if the male child really, really, really wants to look like a girl, there are a million reasons that could be and, regardless, has NOTHING to do with what the sexual desires of the child will be as an adult.
 
Chomsky said:
I'm not that familiar with the subject, but I hope the transgendering process is not allowed to be done before the legal age of consent (18). If you aren't mature enough to consent to sex, how can you be mature enough to know your sexual identity?

Straight-up, and not speaking sexually, I can see I didn't gain full maturity until around thirty. Maybe it's different for women.
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A lot of trans people knew that they were trans from an early age. If you haven't followed Jazz Jennings' story, I recommend it. She knew.
 
joko104 said:
You have cautiously and systematically gone thru the safe guards and tell of your rational skepticism. Renae, I am impressed by this.

I do know a lot of lesbians, gays, BIs, trans and drag queens. Some of them mix up sexual libido (particularly if young) with all the sloganism of LGBT activists.

10 year olds don't have a clue nor are even mentally developed. Young teens and even young adults can make really stupid spur-of-the-moment decisions, extremely influenced by peer pressure and their social circles.

What has been learned from the alarming suicide rates of transsexuals (SRS) is that the excitement of it can be great when young. They can be the hit of the party at bars and social gathers. That works in their 20s. But what about when in their 40s and 50s? What when the youthful attractiveness is gone?

What they have learned in the suicides is that evolutionary delay. As people age, their social life changes, their goals change and their perspectives change. There is no going back from SRS.

Simply, I don't oppose anything that is reversible within reason. Do whatever the person wants. No real risks. It is an entirely different matter when a child is permanently altered by chemicals or surgery. That child's born future was erased before the child was mentally and psychologically developed enough to have a clue - and becoming an adult they learn the decision was taken away from them by some guy with "DR" in front of his man, pocketing hundreds or thousands of dollars over this physical permanent alteration - and approved by his/her parents.

There is NO possible way to KNOW what a pre-puberty child will want sexually after puberty. Forget about "gender." Gender is all about social demands in the current era. Sex is about sex, the physical act of sex. Predicting it can be known what a pre-puberty child will want sexually as an adult is as clear an absurd claim as possible. Even if the male child really, really, really wants to look like a girl, there are a million reasons that could be and, regardless, has NOTHING to do with what the sexual desires of the child will be as an adult.
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I have never rushed into anything "life changing" and this is as life changing as one can get :)
 
Renae said:
That's great, I have 2 of them, and you don't need the surgery. See, you don't really know what you're talking about at this point.
Correcting Gender on IDs a Painful Hurdle for Transgender Texans - Reporting Texas ★ Reporting Texas

I'm in Texas, I have both letters, and am just jumping the last few hurdles to get a lawyer, and I'll go before a judge and be declared "Female" on all official forms, surgery will happen later. I appreciate that you're very pro-trans, but your information is wrong and outdated.
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I have not kept up to the current regulations and rules since the early-mid 1990s. I did a term paper on the subject in college and I had a few TS friends who I used for research writing that paper.
 
Renae said:
'Hundreds' of young trans people seeking help to return to original sex | UK News | Sky News
I, am not surprised at this. Transitioning is serious business and I think there are too many "cheerleader" therapists out there. I ran into quite a few who on first session were ready to put me on HRT. Granted I did decide to take this journey, no regrets, my experience made me realize how... easy? It would be for someone to start transitioning when one isn't ready.
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By the looks of her in the video, she's still a transgender. And we have no idea how many "regretted" their transition as if that's possible (except surgery).
 
AProudLefty said:
By the looks of her in the video, she's still a transgender. And we have no idea how many "regretted" their transition as if that's possible (except surgery).
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I've run into a few. All younger age transitions, all said the same thing..."I felt rushed into it..." that's bad imho
 
Renae said:
I've run into a few. All younger age transitions, all said the same thing..."I felt rushed into it..." that's bad imho
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I'm sure there are some out there and I agree it's a bad thing. But why aren't we hearing from them? One would think the right-wing media would jump at the opportunity.
 
Renae said:
No. There is great reason to keep it on there. A massive change for what, less than .5% of the population? Madness
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What to you is the "critical mass"

If a toy imported from China chokes a child, that is ant even smaller percentage.


How many people must a law protect to be valid ?
 
Lisa said:
It is very obvious that you don't have a clue about the treatment procedure because the parents play almost no active role in it, other than taking a child that doesn't have transportation of their own to the medical appointments. You keep making the erroneous claims that the parent has anything to do with the treatment decisions, which they do not. The parents do not decide that their child is trans nor do they have any significant input with the Drs. Any parent that took their children to the DR and said that put my child on hormones would be reported to child services for abuse.

Trans people have a high suicide rate because they are often physically and emotionally abused and thrown out on the streets or lose their jobs when they seek care. This PTSD is often untreated or poorly treated because of the mental health situation in the US is a joke. It is not the treatment that is causing the problems but it is instead society's rejection of them, often their own family. Stop hurting others and stop being bigots when persons come out as trans. Why does it seem that the Golden Rule is a difficult concept for many people to understand and obey?
Tomorrow is an important SCOTUS decision for the rights of trans people.

Gay and Transgender Youth Homelessness by the Numbers - Center for American Progress
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You wrote "parents play almost no active role." That is outrageous.

Every with your speculation of the cause of suicide, apparently your opinion is that the medical professionals are total idiots who don't know what you know, being fully unaware of the prospect and effect of social and/or family rejection - and therefore are stupidly advising medical treatments that result in the deaths of their patients and many desiring to kill themselves - giving deadly advice and carrying it out for their own huge personal profits.

Hell of a group of medical/psychiatrist professionals advising treatments that result in the death of their patients, including children.
 
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joko104 said:
You wrote "parents play almost no active role." That is outrageous.

Every with your speculation of the cause of suicide, apparently your opinion is that the medical professionals are total idiots who don't know what you know, being fully unaware of the prospect and effect of social and/or family rejection - and therefore are stupidly advising medical treatments that result in the deaths of their patients and many desiring to kill themselves - giving deadly advice and carrying it out for their own huge personal profits.

Hell of a group of medical/psychiatrist professionals advising treatments that result in the death of their patients, including children.
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Medical treatment cannot be withheld because there are family members and others who are ignorant and occasionally violent bigots. Refusing to treat someone because there might be people who oppose it doesn't make the situation resolve itself. Allowing the uninformed opinions of others to deny someone care would be an ethical nightmare.
 
joko104 said:
There is NO possible way to KNOW what a pre-puberty child will want sexually after puberty. Forget about "gender." Gender is all about social demands in the current era. Sex is about sex, the physical act of sex. Predicting it can be known what a pre-puberty child will want sexually as an adult is as clear an absurd claim as possible. Even if the male child really, really, really wants to look like a girl, there are a million reasons that could be and, regardless, has NOTHING to do with what the sexual desires of the child will be as an adult.
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Transgender has nothing to do with sexual orientation. You have no idea what you're babbling about.
 
Renae said:
'Hundreds' of young trans people seeking help to return to original sex | UK News | Sky News
I, am not surprised at this. Transitioning is serious business and I think there are too many "cheerleader" therapists out there. I ran into quite a few who on first session were ready to put me on HRT. Granted I did decide to take this journey, no regrets, my experience made me realize how... easy? It would be for someone to start transitioning when one isn't ready.
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Adolescence is a time of confusion and hormones, period. I'm not surprised to hear this. With the influence of social media and easier access to searching for finding "answers" in others' experience, it kind of seems obvious now.

Wanting to be 'included' has always been a strong influence on teens/young people...but not all feelings and information are necessarily evaluated accurately.
 
Phys251 said:
A lot of trans people knew that they were trans from an early age. If you haven't followed Jazz Jennings' story, I recommend it. She knew.
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That may be. But I see that as a separate issue from allowing medical procedures to be applied to a minor that cannot legally consent.
 
joko104 said:
You wrote "parents play almost no active role." That is outrageous....
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No it's not because they don't

Gender identification is like sexual orientation - it is not a choice

The sooner the right gets away from the idea that it is not a choice, they will start to accept it is not a "sin".
 
Chomsky said:
That may be. But I see that as a separate issue from allowing medical procedures to be applied to a minor that cannot legally consent.
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Jazz herself wanted gender confirmation surgery but was denied it until after she became a legal adult. But they did prescribe her hormone blockers.
 
Rich2018 said:
No it's not because they don't

Gender identification is like sexual orientation - it is not a choice

The sooner the right gets away from the idea that it is not a choice, they will start to accept it is not a "sin".
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I want to know where conservatives are getting this idea that the parents make the decision to make their child transgendered because it it the most ignorant thing that I have ever heard. Children are either born transgendered or they aren't and is is known in .5% of the population. The parents have nothing to do with it. If the child isn't born with transgendered feelings there is nothing the parents could possibly do to change it. No parents wants a child to be born transgender but it happens and the best thing the parents can do is to make sure that the child is raised in a supportive atmosphere and that they can to make the care they get the best supportive med/psych care so they grow up happy and healthy in their gender identity instead of trying to hide it and fake who they are because they parents are ignorant or abusive.
 
Lisa said:
I want to know where conservatives are getting this idea that the parents make the decision to make their child transgendered because it it the most ignorant thing that I have ever heard. Children are either born transgendered or they aren't and is is known in .5% of the population. The parents have nothing to do with it. If the child isn't born with transgendered feelings there is nothing the parents could possibly do to change it. No parents wants a child to be born transgender but it happens and the best thing the parents can do is to make sure that the child is raised in a supportive atmosphere and that they can to make the care they get the best supportive med/psych care so they grow up happy and healthy in their gender identity instead of trying to hide it and fake who they are because they parents are ignorant or abusive.
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It's been a Right Wing talking point for years. Think in terms of, "Soccer Mom's want girls!"
 
Lisa said:
I want to know where conservatives are getting this idea that the parents make the decision to make their child transgendered because it it the most ignorant thing that I have ever heard. Children are either born transgendered or they aren't and is is known in .5% of the population. The parents have nothing to do with it. If the child isn't born with transgendered feelings there is nothing the parents could possibly do to change it. No parents wants a child to be born transgender but it happens and the best thing the parents can do is to make sure that the child is raised in a supportive atmosphere and that they can to make the care they get the best supportive med/psych care so they grow up happy and healthy in their gender identity instead of trying to hide it and fake who they are because they parents are ignorant or abusive.
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It's the same idea that thinks a parental upbringing is the cause of homosexuality - how one sibling could develop into a homosexual and the other heterosexual is not explained.

It comes from the notion that homosexuality is a crime or sin as laid out in the Bible. Pastors even to this day assume homosexuals' orientation is a choice.

I would even say pedophilia is not a choice.


You don't choose what you're attracted to....you chose how you act on those attractions and homosexuality in not a crime and never should have been.
 
Lisa said:
I want to know where conservatives are getting this idea that the parents make the decision to make their child transgendered because it it the most ignorant thing that I have ever heard. Children are either born transgendered or they aren't and is is known in .5% of the population. The parents have nothing to do with it. If the child isn't born with transgendered feelings there is nothing the parents could possibly do to change it. No parents wants a child to be born transgender but it happens and the best thing the parents can do is to make sure that the child is raised in a supportive atmosphere and that they can to make the care they get the best supportive med/psych care so they grow up happy and healthy in their gender identity instead of trying to hide it and fake who they are because they parents are ignorant or abusive.
Click to expand...

It's the same idea that thinks a parental upbringing is the cause of homosexuality - how one sibling could develop into a homosexual and the other heterosexual is not explained.

It comes from the notion that homosexuality is a crime or sin as laid out in the Bible. Pastors even to this day assume homosexuals' orientation is a choice.

I would even say pedophilia is not a choice.


You don't choose what you're attracted to....you chose how you act on those attractions and homosexuality in not a crime and never should have been.
 
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