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Should Intersexed people be forced into a gender/sex at birth?

Bull****. And we were talking about appearance, not behavior in that post.

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Appearance is meaningless. You are begging the question.
 
Part of the gestalt.
You just lost them with that word. Your points, that sex is biologically binary, that biological defects exist and that a field of psycho-social aberrations also exist, already lost them -- they are talking politics and self-righteous politicized psycho-social-biological rationalizations. I admire your forthrightness, but I expect it will only prompt a lot of virtue-signaling among the politically correct crowd.
 
You just lost them with that word. Your points, that sex is biologically binary, that biological defects exist and that a field of psycho-social aberrations also exist, already lost them -- they are talking politics and self-righteous politicized psycho-social-biological rationalizations. I admire your forthrightness, but I expect it will only prompt a lot of virtue-signaling among the politically correct crowd.

Lost on who? What is the point of bringing up the violent aberrations?
 
Well I don't understand your point about pedopilia, rape and murder?

Arguments have been made about the inevitability of aberrant behavior being hardwired, or dna structured, for hundreds of years, if not longer. We can label aberrant behavior as schizophrenic, sociopathic, psychopathic, possessed, witchcraft, whatever. It is a weak and lame argument of excuses. Now it is being used for politically correct explanation and acceptance of sexual deviation. It doesn't fly.

"Accept my place in society as a deviant because my dna made me this way."

I don't care.

"Trust me because I am a good person, without having to say it." Works much better.

For decades I worked with a big, macho, tough construction contractor. His work was always meticulous, on time, and reasonably priced. He was married with two kids and our families socialized. He had a thing for women's high heeled shoes and wore them everyday. Never came up in conversation between us. No "why," no explanation, no excuses, it didn't matter.
 
You just lost them with that word. Your points, that sex is biologically binary, that biological defects exist and that a field of psycho-social aberrations also exist, already lost them -- they are talking politics and self-righteous politicized psycho-social-biological rationalizations. I admire your forthrightness, but I expect it will only prompt a lot of virtue-signaling among the politically correct crowd.

That pretty much sums it all up neatly. Honesty and truth refuse to exist in the world of the politically correct.
 
Arguments have been made about the inevitability of aberrant behavior being hardwired, or dna structured, for hundreds of years, if not longer. We can label aberrant behavior as schizophrenic, sociopathic, psychopathic, possessed, witchcraft, whatever. It is a weak and lame argument of excuses. Now it is being used for politically correct explanation and acceptance of sexual deviation. It doesn't fly.

"Accept my place in society as a deviant because my dna made me this way."

I don't care.

"Trust me because I am a good person, without having to say it." Works much better.

For decades I worked with a big, macho, tough construction contractor. His work was always meticulous, on time, and reasonably priced. He was married with two kids and our families socialized. He had a thing for women's high heeled shoes and wore them everyday. Never came up in conversation between us. No "why," no explanation, no excuses, it didn't matter.

So..... Transgender/intersex people are not to be accepted?
 
Appearance is meaningless. You are begging the question.
Appearance is the main way we attempt to determine anyone's gender in public. You don't have access to a stranger's medical information, no right to their legal sex, and don't normally see their genitals.

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He's already answered your question:
No one has argued otherwise. No one has suggested transgenders or intersexed people do harm to others, except him (at least to a degree). He doesnt want to accept them for who they are, only who he expects or wants them to be.

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No one has argued otherwise. No one has suggested transgenders or intersexed people do harm to others, except him (at least to a degree). He doesnt want to accept them for who they are, only who he expects or wants them to be...
He answered you directly on this point, roguenuke. He brought in the larger field (including harmful aberrations) only to point up the hypocrisy of the politically correct view you and AProudLefty are espousing. He accepts transgender or intersex individuals "for who they are" -- not for who you and AProudLefty want him to accept them as.
You insult my intelligence. It very much has to do with both homosexuality and all sexuality. Aberrations and freaks do exist. No one is obligated to accept the premise using language for social acceptability of the same. There is no good reason to accept your argument. Live with the fact that many disagree with you and will never accept the argument you make because it is a pretense.

Shift the argument to accepting people for what they are providing they do no predatory harm to others and you can find acceptance.
 
He answered you directly on this point, roguenuke. He brought in the larger field (including harmful aberrations) only to point up the hypocrisy of the politically correct view you and AProudLefty are espousing. He accepts transgender or intersex individuals "for who they are" -- not for who you and AProudLefty want him to accept them as.
No he doesnt. Nor do you apparently. Intersexed people especially. He has straight up said they don't exist, even science disagrees with that. This is about doing what is best for them, not you or others who oppose change. This is about their mental health, which all research has shown is best by letting them decide, especially transgendered people but lately intersexed are learning to stand up for themselves and their rights and mental health too.

They do no harm to you or anyone else by being themselves, in the case of this subject, being intersexed rather than some sex of someone else's choosing, pretending they were born "normal", as if normal is always right.

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So I've been thinking about this a little because I do defend transgenderism with evidence that it could be that at least some transgendered people are in fact intersexed, but should not have to share this.

So the question is, should parents be encouraged to choose a sex for an intersexed child, and therefore a gender for them in those early years (that may change), at birth?



Should birth certificates just give an "apparent gender" that legally subject to change and a new certificate issued ?
 
He accepts transgender or intersex individuals "for who they are" -- not for who you and AProudLefty want him to accept them as.

What exactly does that mean? Accept them as aberrations?
 
No he doesnt. Nor do you apparently. Intersexed people especially. He has straight up said they don't exist, even science disagrees with that. This is about doing what is best for them, not you or others who oppose change. This is about their mental health, which all research has shown is best by letting them decide, especially transgendered people but lately intersexed are learning to stand up for themselves and their rights and mental health too.

They do no harm to you or anyone else by being themselves, in the case of this subject, being intersexed rather than some sex of someone else's choosing, pretending they were born "normal", as if normal is always right.
No, what he has "straight up said" is that there is no third biological sex. He sais there are two biological sexes, and sometimes aberrations of the two. I agree with him.

As for transgenderism (not the topic here, I note), I won't presume to speak for OldFatGuy, but for what it's worth, this is my view, posted elsewhere:
The politicization of subjectivity is the rabbit hole down which liberal democracy has disappeared in recent years.
The legalization of subjectivized objectivity has removed liberal democratic culture from any basis in reality.
The noble political experiment has exploded and wrecked the lab.
https://www.debatepolitics.com/sex-...ion-demands-placed-others.html#post1070593106
 
No, what he has "straight up said" is that there is no third biological sex. He sais there are two biological sexes, and sometimes aberrations of the two. I agree with him.

As for transgenderism (not the topic here, I note), I won't presume to speak for OldFatGuy, but for what it's worth, this is my view, posted elsewhere:

https://www.debatepolitics.com/sex-...ion-demands-placed-others.html#post1070593106
Wrong. Post #87. He said "There is no such thing as intersexed." The very first thing he said in this thread. He states they don't exist.

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I think Germany now allows for gender neutral birth certificates.

On adulthood, I ythink one should be able to have decided.
Why should they have to decide either/or? There is no reason we cannot accommodate other genders, even someone who is intersexed, as adults.

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Why should they have to decide either/or? There is no reason we cannot accommodate other genders, even someone who is intersexed, as adults.

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Yes indeed. But some people would want to.

They'd want male or female on their passport, driving license etc...


Do we need a declared gender on any document is what you seem to be asking ?
 
Why should they have to decide either/or? There is no reason we cannot accommodate other genders, even someone who is intersexed, as adults.

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He's talking about birth certificates. Intersex babies should have sexes as undetermined.
 
Yes indeed. But some people would want to.

They'd want male or female on their passport, driving license etc...


Do we need a declared gender on any document is what you seem to be asking ?
Oh, yes. Absolutely. I'm for them choosing their own sex/gender, or remaining intersexed. It should be the person's choice, not their parents (at least not if surgeries and hormones are necessary to make someone a certain sex) or even a doctor.

Having undetermined or intersexed should be available when it comes to a birth certificate, the same as red is available as a hair color choice on licenses (same prevalence).

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