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Should Intersexed people be forced into a gender/sex at birth?

roguenuke

roguenuke

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So I've been thinking about this a little because I do defend transgenderism with evidence that it could be that at least some transgendered people are in fact intersexed, but should not have to share this.

So the question is, should parents be encouraged to choose a sex for an intersexed child, and therefore a gender for them in those early years (that may change), at birth?



I like how she talks about allowing intersexed people being allowed to choose intersexed or some variant to recognize themselves as who they feel they are. It is only our own problems with accepting things outside the norm which leads us to seeing them as having an issue that we need to fix, to choose one of the "norm".

I will say that I do not think that it is just Christians who reject those that are intersexed, or at least the idea that they should be able to live life as both. I do believe that this is something that is more a cultural thing and part of human nature that simply should be examined and changed through conversations and reasoning as to why we should see choosing a sex for intersexed children as wrong.

As I have pointed out, she points out here, intersexed people represent 1-2% of the population. As a comparison, those with natural red hair make up about 1-2% of the population.

And this leads to a second question, should parents be prevented from choosing a sex/gender for their child at birth?
 
roguenuke said:
So I've been thinking about this a little because I do defend transgenderism with evidence that it could be that at least some transgendered people are in fact intersexed, but should not have to share this.

So the question is, should parents be encouraged to choose a sex for an intersexed child, and therefore a gender for them in those early years (that may change), at birth?



I like how she talks about allowing intersexed people being allowed to choose intersexed or some variant to recognize themselves as who they feel they are. It is only our own problems with accepting things outside the norm which leads us to seeing them as having an issue that we need to fix, to choose one of the "norm".

I will say that I do not think that it is just Christians who reject those that are intersexed, or at least the idea that they should be able to live life as both. I do believe that this is something that is more a cultural thing and part of human nature that simply should be examined and changed through conversations and reasoning as to why we should see choosing a sex for intersexed children as wrong.

As I have pointed out, she points out here, intersexed people represent 1-2% of the population. As a comparison, those with natural red hair make up about 1-2% of the population.

And this leads to a second question, should parents be prevented from choosing a sex/gender for their child at birth?
Click to expand...


Interesting question. There's some ease in picking a gender, because the child has to have a name. Names are often gender specific (you won't meet many girls named Charles).

If the parents are good with a gender neutral name, then i don't see why a gender should be chosen. I think either choice is valid.
 
rocket88 said:
Interesting question. There's some ease in picking a gender, because the child has to have a name. Names are often gender specific (you won't meet many girls named Charles).

If the parents are good with a gender neutral name, then i don't see why a gender should be chosen. I think either choice is valid.
Click to expand...

Actually my brother knows a boy named Elizabeth, which was simply a family name. I bet I could even find a girl named Charles (which btw is the name of my brother who knows the boy named Elizabeth, which is my name).

And pay attention to the percentages next to the name Charles in this link:
Why aren’t female Charlies killing the name Charles? | Family Inequality
That means that about 0.2% of those named Charles are most likely girls.
 
There are lots of gender-neutral names, I think.
 
I'm not sure why a name would really matter more than the psychological health of the child, which research lately has shown would benefit from, at the very least, the truth about being born intersexed and being able to choose for themselves if they go through hormonal therapy (when it isn't absolutely necessary, and in most cases of intersexed, it isn't).

The most interesting thing (and hypocritical) about it is that many people are against hormonal therapy for transgender children to let them match their stated identity, but few seem to even care that many intersexed children are given such hormones, truly unnecessarily, at birth (or around that time) just because the parents want to choose their sex/gender rather than allowing them to simply be intersexed, both.
 
roguenuke said:
So I've been thinking about this a little because I do defend transgenderism with evidence that it could be that at least some transgendered people are in fact intersexed, but should not have to share this.

So the question is, should parents be encouraged to choose a sex for an intersexed child, and therefore a gender for them in those early years (that may change), at birth?



I like how she talks about allowing intersexed people being allowed to choose intersexed or some variant to recognize themselves as who they feel they are. It is only our own problems with accepting things outside the norm which leads us to seeing them as having an issue that we need to fix, to choose one of the "norm".

I will say that I do not think that it is just Christians who reject those that are intersexed, or at least the idea that they should be able to live life as both. I do believe that this is something that is more a cultural thing and part of human nature that simply should be examined and changed through conversations and reasoning as to why we should see choosing a sex for intersexed children as wrong.

As I have pointed out, she points out here, intersexed people represent 1-2% of the population. As a comparison, those with natural red hair make up about 1-2% of the population.

And this leads to a second question, should parents be prevented from choosing a sex/gender for their child at birth?
Click to expand...


It depends on the physical realities. Mostly male then lean male at first, if female visa versa. Thats play by ear call really. Catch as catch can.
 
PirateMk1 said:
It depends on the physical realities. Mostly male then lean male at first, if female visa versa. Thats play by ear call really. Catch as catch can.
Click to expand...

Why choose at all though? Why can't we just accept people as both male and female, regardless of how much of one or the other they resemble?
 
roguenuke said:
So I've been thinking about this a little because I do defend transgenderism with evidence that it could be that at least some transgendered people are in fact intersexed, but should not have to share this.

So the question is, should parents be encouraged to choose a sex for an intersexed child, and therefore a gender for them in those early years (that may change), at birth?



I like how she talks about allowing intersexed people being allowed to choose intersexed or some variant to recognize themselves as who they feel they are. It is only our own problems with accepting things outside the norm which leads us to seeing them as having an issue that we need to fix, to choose one of the "norm".

I will say that I do not think that it is just Christians who reject those that are intersexed, or at least the idea that they should be able to live life as both. I do believe that this is something that is more a cultural thing and part of human nature that simply should be examined and changed through conversations and reasoning as to why we should see choosing a sex for intersexed children as wrong.

As I have pointed out, she points out here, intersexed people represent 1-2% of the population. As a comparison, those with natural red hair make up about 1-2% of the population.

And this leads to a second question, should parents be prevented from choosing a sex/gender for their child at birth?
Click to expand...


I thought gender and sex were different things. How are parents choosing gender for their child they're only choosing the sex of their child?

Unless gender and sex are connected
 
roguenuke said:
I'm not sure why a name would really matter more than the psychological health of the child, which research lately has shown would benefit from, at the very least, the truth about being born intersexed and being able to choose for themselves if they go through hormonal therapy (when it isn't absolutely necessary, and in most cases of intersexed, it isn't).

The most interesting thing (and hypocritical) about it is that many people are against hormonal therapy for transgender children to let them match their stated identity, but few seem to even care that many intersexed children are given such hormones, truly unnecessarily, at birth (or around that time) just because the parents want to choose their sex/gender rather than allowing them to simply be intersexed, both.
Click to expand...

People are against hormonal therapy for “transgender” children because the research shows that the majority of such children no longer hold that view after puberty. The research also shows that the majority of intersex persons are happy with the sex chosen for them at birth. So what problem are you trying to solve?
 
roguenuke said:
So I've been thinking about this a little because I do defend transgenderism with evidence that it could be that at least some transgendered people are in fact intersexed, but should not have to share this.

So the question is, should parents be encouraged to choose a sex for an intersexed child, and therefore a gender for them in those early years (that may change), at birth?



I like how she talks about allowing intersexed people being allowed to choose intersexed or some variant to recognize themselves as who they feel they are. It is only our own problems with accepting things outside the norm which leads us to see them as having an issue that we need to fix, to choose one of the "norms".

I will say that I do not think that it is just Christians who reject those that are intersexed, or at least the idea that they should be able to live life as both. I do believe that this is something that is more a cultural thing and part of human nature that simply should be examined and changed through conversations and reasoning as to why we should see choosing a sex for intersexed children as wrong.

As I have pointed out, she points out here, intersexed people represent 1-2% of the population. As a comparison, those with natural red hair make up about 1-2% of the population.

And this leads to a second question, should parents be prevented from choosing a sex/gender for their child at birth?
Click to expand...


Absolutely not. Intyersexxed people exist naturally and they cannot be made to be forced into something that is not just so people who can only understand a simple binary perspective will feel more comfortable. We didn't force interact to choose between black and white, so why should we do the same to the intersexxed.

The problem is religious belief is illogical, despite the fact that religious believers claim that God made us in his own image as we are. Do they plan to claim that a fetus chose to be intersexxed and they are sinners for being intersexxed and must repent before their first birthday?
 
roguenuke said:
So I've been thinking about this a little because I do defend transgenderism with evidence that it could be that at least some transgendered people are in fact intersexed, but should not have to share this.

So the question is, should parents be encouraged to choose a sex for an intersexed child, and therefore a gender for them in those early years (that may change), at birth?



I like how she talks about allowing intersexed people being allowed to choose intersexed or some variant to recognize themselves as who they feel they are. It is only our own problems with accepting things outside the norm which leads us to seeing them as having an issue that we need to fix, to choose one of the "norm".

I will say that I do not think that it is just Christians who reject those that are intersexed, or at least the idea that they should be able to live life as both. I do believe that this is something that is more a cultural thing and part of human nature that simply should be examined and changed through conversations and reasoning as to why we should see choosing a sex for intersexed children as wrong.

As I have pointed out, she points out here, intersexed people represent 1-2% of the population. As a comparison, those with natural red hair make up about 1-2% of the population.

And this leads to a second question, should parents be prevented from choosing a sex/gender for their child at birth?
Click to expand...


A big yes. I've read stories of those who found out they are intersex later in life. They usually knew something was wrong or felt different. (That right there should give people a clue about transgenderism)
 
CLAX1911 said:
I thought gender and sex were different things. How are parents choosing gender for their child they're only choosing the sex of their child?

Unless gender and sex are connected
Click to expand...

Care to address the topic?
 
roguenuke said:
Why choose at all though? Why can't we just accept people as both male and female, regardless of how much of one or the other they resemble?
Click to expand...

Who decides what bathroom these intersexed persons can use? Maybe that sounds frivolous, but because there are people who would try to abuse this ambivalence-- think, this transgender guy in this salon-- the state has to think about such matters.
 
CLAX1911 said:
I thought gender and sex were different things. How are parents choosing gender for their child they're only choosing the sex of their child?

Unless gender and sex are connected
Click to expand...

Parents are not choosing sex and gender. Sex and gender are not the same things. If a child is intersexxed then that is to be left blank,. Drs are not to be performing surgery and making a critical life decsion for a child when their physical genitalia is ambiguous at birth because of the problems that have been created in the past when that has happened. That decision is for the child to make as they mature.
No person looks at their birth certificate to know if they are male or female. That idea is innate to the person and lifelong problems are created when a Dr makes the wrong decision or performs genital surgery on a newborn because of their own opinions.

What is intersex? | Intersex Society of North America
 
Ouroboros said:
Who decides what bathroom these intersexed persons can use? Maybe that sounds frivolous, but because there are people who would try to abuse this ambivalence-- think, this transgender guy in this salon-- the state has to think about such matters.
Click to expand...

Are you a sworn member of the bathroom police? They use what bathroom they want to.
 
Napoleon said:
People are against hormonal therapy for “transgender” children because the research shows that the majority of such children no longer hold that view after puberty. The research also shows that the majority of intersex persons are happy with the sex chosen for them at birth. So what problem are you trying to solve?
Click to expand...
And those that aren't okay with the sex chosen for them at birth? What about them? Those who want to choose a sex later are still free to do so.

Sent from my SM-N970U using Tapatalk
 
Ouroboros said:
Who decides what bathroom these intersexed persons can use? Maybe that sounds frivolous, but because there are people who would try to abuse this ambivalence-- think, this transgender guy in this salon-- the state has to think about such matters.
Click to expand...
Why should they not choose their own bathroom? Who has any right to police them?

Sent from my SM-N970U using Tapatalk
 
roguenuke said:
And those that aren't okay with the sex chosen for them at birth? What about them? Those who want to choose a sex later are still free to do so.

Sent from my SM-N970U using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

The small minority who aren’t can elect to change it in adulthood. I don’t believe that the exception should be the rule. There’s really no reason such a rare phenomenon should be given this much attention in the first place.
 
CLAX1911 said:
I thought gender and sex were different things. How are parents choosing gender for their child they're only choosing the sex of their child?

Unless gender and sex are connected
Click to expand...
By physically changing them to represent a certain sex physically they would be choosing their sex. By raising them as a certain gender, girl or boy, they would be choosing their gender.

Gender and sex can be connected in ways without them being the same thing.

Sent from my SM-N970U using Tapatalk
 
CLAX1911 said:
I'm addressing inconsistency. In one side of the argument gender and sex aren't the same but others it is.

So I'm questioning that. The topic is gender and sex and how they related to one another.
Click to expand...
They can be related without being the same thing.

Sent from my SM-N970U using Tapatalk
 
Lisa said:
Parents are not choosing sex and gender. Sex and gender are not the same things.
Click to expand...
Yeah that's the common rhetoric which is why I asked what I did in response to this.
roguenuke said:
So the question is, should parents be encouraged to choose a sex for an intersexed child, and therefore a gender for them in those early years (that may change), at birth?
Click to expand...

If a child is intersexxed then that is to be left blank,. Drs are not to be performing surgery and making a critical life decsion for a child when their physical genitalia is ambiguous at birth because of the problems that have been created in the past when that has happened.
Click to expand...
I think the best approach is to leave them alone. That decision is for the child to make as they mature.
No person looks at their birth certificate to know if they are male or female. That idea is innate to the person and lifelong problems are created when a Dr makes the wrong decision or performs genital surgery on a newborn because of their own opinions.

What is intersex? | Intersex Society of North America
Click to expand...
As I said, they should be left alone. In other parts of the world the children born with such defects are left alone and often develope into male or female in early stages and even sometimes during puberty.
 
Napoleon said:
The small minority who aren’t can elect to change it in adulthood. I don’t believe that the exception should be the rule. There’s really no reason such a rare phenomenon should be given this much attention in the first place.
Click to expand...
That is worse for them than simply having all choose their sex later in life, even giving them the option to simply be intersexed, not either Male or female.

For most of time they were simply hidden away, their intersexed being a secret even from them. It has only been recently that psychology identified problems in both those who are intersexed and their parents arising from keeping this secret. Getting it out in the open has been shown to be healthier.

Sent from my SM-N970U using Tapatalk
 
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