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Should Intersexed people be forced into a gender/sex at birth?

Rich2018 said:
Do you have any idea on how many laws there are in the USA ?

Are you not making as assumption that most are just laws ?
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Since most places do not have laws on the books concerning bathroom usage, particularly when it comes to being intersexed, then that means most laws favor my view of most women not really pushing for such laws. There are some, both that guarantee use and others denying use, but even those that would deny would be difficult to enforce.

The default is that if something isnt against the law, it is okay to do.

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roguenuke said:
...hen that means most laws favor my view of most women not really pushing for such laws. There are some, both that guarantee use and others denying use, but even those that would deny would be difficult to enforce.

The default is that if something isnt against the law, it is okay to do....
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I think you're just assuming laws are good and you like them with no knowledge.
 
Rich2018 said:
I think you're just assuming laws are good and you like them with no knowledge.
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No. There simply aren't that many laws throughout our country in regard to bathroom usage. At least 2000 of those that exist protect transgenders in being able to use the restroom of whichever gender they identify as. And that would definitely fail over to intersexed people.

In fact, just look at the picture of the intersexed girl in the OP video. Her birth certificate stated she was a girl. Yet most women would see her in the restroom and swear she was a he (eventually she transitioned to he). So which would be more uncomfortable?

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roguenuke said:
No. There simply aren't that many laws throughout our country in regard to bathroom usage....
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You would be surprised and the list is growing

One thin American politics is good for is passing new laws


...at least 2000 of those that exist protect transgenders in being able to use the restroom of whichever gender they identify as. And that would definitely fail over to intersexed people....
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You seem top be a lawyer, why is that ?

Why would most of those laws fail in practice or did you mean fail in court ?
 
Rich2018 said:
You would be surprised and the list is growing

One thin American politics is good for is passing new laws





You seem top be a lawyer, why is that ?

Why would most of those laws fail in practice or did you mean fail in court ?
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The laws have not been enforced, and it would be difficult to enforce. Enforcing such laws would require judging people by appearance and then harassing them for private info, particularly the laws like that in NC. How many carry their birth certificate on them? Is that reasonable to expect not just transgender and intersexed people to do so, but also those who may look either masculine or feminine in opposition to their birth sex? That would in fact be a major personal security concern to be expected to carry such evidence out in public everywhere simply because you might appear too masculine or too feminine for the restroom you use. Plus, how many would enforce such a thing on FTM transgender? I'm willing to bet that would be unequal enforcement of the law, and you better believe it would be challenged as such.

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Lisa said:
Trans people have been using the bathroom of their gender for years without a problem. The fact that Republicans are using this issue to still up dissent among their followers who are shockingly ignorant of the issue doesn't mean that transgendered people are a problem. The problem is stupid people and the politicians that they follow attacking minorities for political gain. Transgendered people, either MtF or FtM, are not sex offenders, despite what republicans seek to infer.
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No one said that all, or even a majority of, transgenders are sex offenders.

The argument, which I'm sure you'll choose to ignore, is that allowing for gender fluidity in bathrooms makes it possible for abuses to take place.

And here's a case where a particular trans-male, who identifies as female, has been allowed to be imprisoned with female inmates. Tell me again how no transgenders are sex offenders.

Speaking at the California assembly hearing yesterday, Abigail Lunetta (a self-described “Democrat, feminist, and an advocate for women’s rights”) opposed the bill: “Right now, Richard Masbruch, a trans-identified male, is currently housed with female inmates in Corona, even though he is serving time for targeting, raping, and torturing women. Under no circumstances is this morally justifiable.”
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roguenuke said:
...enforcing such laws would require judging people by appearance and then harassing them for private info, particularly the laws like that in NC. How many carry their birth certificate on them?
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In the USA no-one as a driver's license is a perfectly acceptable for of ID (photo ID at that) - though I know many people ask for ID and never look closely at it.

In other countries there is no ID as such that people carry - the nearest thing would be a passport.

In the USA however, a driver's license works just fine.


....is that reasonable to expect not just transgender and intersexed people to do so...
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Driver's license in the USA? Yes


...also those who may look either masculine or feminine in opposition to their birth sex? That would in fact be a major personal security concern to be expected to carry such evidence out in public everywhere simply because you might appear too masculine or too feminine for the restroom you use....
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You should resemble the picture on your driver's license though.

Incidentally, why isn't is called a driving license ?
 
Rich2018 said:
In the USA no-one as a driver's license is a perfectly acceptable for of ID (photo ID at that) - though I know many people ask for ID and never look closely at it.

In other countries there is no ID as such that people carry - the nearest thing would be a passport.

In the USA however, a driver's license works just fine.




Driver's license in the USA? Yes




You should resemble the picture on your driver's license though.

Incidentally, why isn't is called a driving license ?
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The NC law insists that it must be as per the birth certificate, not legal ID. The why in this is that many states allow people to choose their own gender. While most states (not all) allow changes to the sex on a person's birth certificate, it usually only gets done with a court order. So they insist it must be a birth certificate. That us not a normal form of identification in the US, at least not while simply out in public.

And not everyone has a driver's license. I just got one less than 3 years ago. I used my CAC which is valid ID and does not list gender.

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roguenuke said:
The NC law insists that it must be as per the birth certificate, not legal ID. The why in this is that many states allow people to choose their own gender. While most states (not all) allow changes to the sex on a person's birth certificate, it usually only gets done with a court order. So they insist it must be a birth certificate. That us not a normal form of identification in the US, at least not while simply out in public.

And not everyone has a driver's license. I just got one less than 3 years ago. I used my CAC which is valid ID and does not list gender.

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The argument is that gender be omitted from the birth certificate and thus every document issued afterwards like driver's license, passport etc.
 
Rich2018 said:
The argument is that gender be omitted from the birth certificate and thus every document issued afterwards like driver's license, passport etc.
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Not my argument. My argument for this issue (intersexed) is that an option for intersexed be included on birth certificates. For transgenders, I support allowing all documentation including gender (especially government IDs) be up to the person, not their birth certificate.

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roguenuke said:
Not my argument. My argument for this issue (intersexed) is that an option for intersexed be included on birth certificates. For transgenders, I support allowing all documentation including gender (especially government IDs) be up to the person, not their birth certificate.

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Wheras I would remove the gender from all birth certificates and every personal identification document issued after.
 
roguenuke said:
No it isnt. Sex is not the same as gender. They are connected but not the same.

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Yes they are.

Gender is a more polite way of saying sex.

The child's sex is male
The child's gender is male

QED
 
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