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Self Identification Demands Placed On Others

Hondo said:
I didn't say that the self-identifyee was not being in polite. I said I am going to express politeness in the manner I was taught. If I say, "Good morning, ladies," and someone is offended, respect my age and get off my lawn.
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You do know that politeness is about the other person's perceptions of your words/actions, right? And knowing efforts to negatively impact the other person would be (rather passive-aggressive) rudeness?
 
Lursa said:
Am I the only person that treats men and women the same out in public?

If you are treating men and women (strangers) differently...why?
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I treat people as they would want to be treated and address them as such.
 
Lursa said:
Kinda "Golden Ruley"...I like that.
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It wasn't always the case, but meeting and working with people with minority sexualities taught me they are people just like me with feelings too and every bit as valuable.
 
code1211 said:
With the recent insanity regarding individuals demanding that the rest of us accept their insanity of self identification counter to reality, a thought struck me.

I happen to be an old guy about 10 or 20 pounds heavier than I would like to be. I have numerous skin areas that have veins displayed resembling maps of river deltas.

My face has wrinkles and my posture is less straight than I would prefer. My movements are far from silky smooth and my attitudes are sometimes a tad uncaring and abrasive to those around me.

I'm pretty sure that if the great majority of women witnessed my naked body, locally or internationally, they would ask me to please put some clothes on ASAP.

All of that said, I would like to self identify immediately as a very handsome, intelligent and graceful young man, physically beautiful and unblemished, with an engaging manner that is the fantasy dream of women.

When I make known my new self identification, is everyone now obligated to treat me in the way that my new self identification demands?

Just wondering... At what point will the stupid insanity of the insane Left be called out for what it is?
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If you have one of these in your pocket, you'll be attractive to women:

1915-S $50 Pan-Pac Octagonal (Regular Strike) Gold Commemorative - PCGS CoinFacts

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If a biological man wants to self-identify as a woman and have the "she/her" applied in conversation and address, I'll oblige them. That's only polite.

But I won't call that person a woman. Because you're not a woman. You're still a man. Truth is not always polite.
 
eman623 said:
If a biological man wants to self-identify as a woman and have the "she/her" applied in conversation and address, I'll oblige them. That's only polite.

But I won't call that person a woman. Because you're not a woman. You're still a man. Truth is not always polite.
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What is the definition of a woman then ?


A man without a penis ?
 
Rich2018 said:
What is the definition of a woman then ?


A man without a penis ?
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More like a man without a Y chromosome. Or a man is like a woman but with a Y. In any case, the DNA is the difference. Biology happens.
 
eman623 said:
If a biological man wants to self-identify as a woman and have the "she/her" applied in conversation and address, I'll oblige them. That's only polite.

But I won't call that person a woman. Because you're not a woman. You're still a man. Truth is not always polite.
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You dont get to determine 'truth' for other people. A person is more than just DNA.
 
eman623 said:
If a biological man wants to self-identify as a woman and have the "she/her" applied in conversation and address, I'll oblige them. That's only polite.

But I won't call that person a woman. Because you're not a woman. You're still a man. Truth is not always polite.
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What do you call the intersex people then? hiwoman?
 
Lord Tammerlain said:
So when you greet a woman you do not know you say

"Good Day Sir"
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You've never greeted a female officer or worse a group of officers with a mix of genders. It is actually acceptable to greet all officers, including female officers as "sir".

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Lursa said:
You dont get to determine 'truth' for other people. A person is more than just DNA.
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Everyone is entitled to his own opinions but not his own facts - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

If you have an X and Y chromosome, you're a biological male. I'll call you ma'am if you prefer, because I'm nothing if not polite. But I won't call you a woman. Because you're not a woman.
 
AProudLefty said:
What do you call the intersex people then? hiwoman?
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I call them intersex. And if they self-identify as a man or woman I call them sir or ma'am respectively.
 
eman623 said:
More like a man without a Y chromosome. Or a man is like a woman but with a Y. In any case, the DNA is the difference. Biology happens.
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Since when do you have access to know someone's DNA? Do you have any idea what your own DNA is? Did you know you could have a Y chromosome and be born without a penis? Did you know you could have two XX chromosomes and be born with a penis? Did you know that people can have different DNA inside different parts of their body, including having XX in some parts, and XY in others? And privacy says you have no right to know what chromosomes or DNA is inside their body. And science is telling us that far more people have any one of these conditions that believed. Hell, most mothers have both XX and XY chromosomes in their bodies. I bet I do.

Does having a Y chromosome make someone a man? | Intersex Society of North America

It is in fact far more common for someone to be intersexed in some way (and likely not even know it) than it is for people to be transgendered.
 
eman623 said:
Everyone is entitled to his own opinions but not his own facts - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

If you have an X and Y chromosome, you're a biological male. I'll call you ma'am if you prefer, because I'm nothing if not polite. But I won't call you a woman. Because you're not a woman.
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But you don't know what chromosomes they actually have in their body, because a) most people are not tested or at least not tested thoroughly enough to know for sure and b) that is medically protected information that you nor the general public has a right to know.
 
roguenuke said:
But you don't know what chromosomes they actually have in their body, because a) most people are not tested or at least not tested thoroughly enough to know for sure and b) that is medically protected information that you nor the general public has a right to know.
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The number of true intersex people is what, maybe about 1 in 1000? But we're not talking about them. We're talking about people who were clearly one or the other sex, but for psychological reasons decide they prefer to be the other.

If those people want to show me the DNA test showing then to actually be the sex they identify as, then I'll call them man or woman as applicable.
 
eman623 said:
The number of true intersex people is what, maybe about 1 in 1000? But we're not talking about them. We're talking about people who were clearly one or the other sex, but for psychological reasons decide they prefer to be the other.

If those people want to show me the DNA test showing then to actually be the sex they identify as, then I'll call them man or woman as applicable.
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But you just said that it had to do with DNA, having or lacking a Y chromosome. Tests have shown that far more than "1 in 1000" people have DNA that does not match their genitalia inside their body, even as many as 1/100, which puts the number above that of transgendered people. Most people do not even know they have it, like the person discussed in the link I provided. I very likely have Y sex chromosomes in my body, and they will almost certainly be there still (given the results of research into this) when I die, even if that is 60 years from now. If you are a man, you have a pretty good chance of having female DNA in your body, somewhere.

Genetic Chimeras: Are You Your Own Twin? - Scientific American Blog Network

And it mentions something that many don't think of, people with two different eye colors or two toned skin are more often than not found to be chimeras.

You have no right to see anyone's DNA tests, of any part of their body. That is HIPAA protected information. Why should they have to violate their privacy because of your insecurity and/or distrust? Plus, in order to determine if someone may be a chimera, in many cases, DNA would have to be taken from a number of different places throughout the body. A person could have that other DNA only in one body part, a part that is not tested on normal DNA tests.
 
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roguenuke said:
But you just said that it had to do with DNA, having or lacking a Y chromosome. Tests have shown that far more than "1 in 1000" people have DNA that does not match their genitalia inside their body, even as many as 1/100, which puts the number above that of transgendered people. Most people do not even know they have it, like the person discussed in the link I provided. I very likely have Y sex chromosomes in my body, and they will almost certainly be there still (given the results of research into this) when I die, even if that is 60 years from now. If you are a man, you have a pretty good chance of having female DNA in your body, somewhere.

Genetic Chimeras: Are You Your Own Twin? - Scientific American Blog Network

And it mentions something that many don't think of, people with two different eye colors or two toned skin are more often than not found to be chimeras.

You have no right to see anyone's DNA tests, of any part of their body. That is HIPAA protected information. Why should they have to violate their privacy because of your insecurity and/or distrust? Plus, in order to determine if someone may be a chimera, in many cases, DNA would have to be taken from a number of different places throughout the body. A person could have that other DNA only in one body part, a part that is not tested on normal DNA tests.
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This is still not about intersex people and that rare corner case doesn't mean I have to pretend a biological man is a woman because she says so and because its PC to do so.

Yes, I stand by the comment that DNA is the difference and agree I won't always have a DNA report. Doesn't matter. DNA expresses itself in certain physical characteristics. If someone has eyes that look blue, I'm not going to wait for a DNA test or call that person green-eyed because he or she feels like a green-eyed person trapped in the body of a blue-eyed one. I'm going to call them blue-eyed. Because DNA.
 
eman623 said:
This is still not about intersex people and that rare corner case doesn't mean I have to pretend a biological man is a woman because she says so and because its PC to do so.

Yes, I stand by the comment that DNA is the difference and agree I won't always have a DNA report. Doesn't matter. DNA expresses itself in certain physical characteristics. If someone has eyes that look blue, I'm not going to wait for a DNA test or call that person green-eyed because he or she feels like a green-eyed person trapped in the body of a blue-eyed one. I'm going to call them blue-eyed. Because DNA.
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It's not nearly as rare as being transgender. In reality, you nor most anyone else knows what makes a man a real or biological man or a woman a real or biological woman because our bodies are full of secrets, especially on an individual level. Being transgender for many or even most could be and likely is biological.

Is someone with AIS really, biologically a man or a woman?

And you do realize that we have contacts that can make a person have blue eyes or green eyes right? And people with hazel eyes tend to have eyes that appear to change colors with shifting light and moods. Also at what point in life is eye color determined?

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roguenuke said:
It's not nearly as rare as being transgender. In reality, you nor most anyone else knows what makes a man a real or biological man or a woman a real or biological woman because our bodies are full of secrets, especially on an individual level. Being transgender for many or even most could be and likely is biological.

Is someone with AIS really, biologically a man or a woman?

And you do realize that we have contacts that can make a person have blue eyes or green eyes right? And people with hazel eyes tend to have eyes that appear to change colors with shifting light and moods. Also at what point in life is eye color determined?
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Do you have stats for the rates of transgender vs intersex? I bet both are in the 0.1-0.3% range.

I don't believe transgender is a biological thing in most cases. For the vast majority who are not intersex, it's psychological. There may be some genetics involved, but same with the so-called "gay gene" I'd need to see evidence of that first.

And if your DNA programs you to have blue eyes, then you have blue eyes. Even if you wear colored contacts. If it programs you to have hazel eyes, then that's what you have.
 
eman623 said:
Everyone is entitled to his own opinions but not his own facts - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

If you have an X and Y chromosome, you're a biological male. I'll call you ma'am if you prefer, because I'm nothing if not polite. But I won't call you a woman. Because you're not a woman.
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So much for you being 'polite' toothers. I was pretty sure it was nothing more than a thin veil of civility on your surface.

Dont forget to politely ask for a DNA test first, before you interact with them in public.
 
eman623 said:
Do you have stats for the rates of transgender vs intersex? I bet both are in the 0.1-0.3% range.

I don't believe transgender is a biological thing in most cases. For the vast majority who are not intersex, it's psychological. There may be some genetics involved, but same with the so-called "gay gene" I'd need to see evidence of that first.

And if your DNA programs you to have blue eyes, then you have blue eyes. Even if you wear colored contacts. If it programs you to have hazel eyes, then that's what you have.
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Transgender is around 0.5%, whereas intersex (which doesn't even count having opposite gender DNA simply in your body) is estimated at around 1-2% of the population (about as common as having red hair naturally). That's 2 times as many who are intersexed as transgender, and we don't even really know when it to chimerism if maybe there could be a lot more. Even after death, we wouldn't normally look for DNA in every single tissue type.

But the point is that you don't interact with people based on what their DNA is. You interact with them first based on what you see, and then second, in most cases, based on what they tell you. If you saw someone who was androgynous, and you thought they were likely a man, but not sure, and they said no they are a woman, would you accept them at their word or ask for genetic or physical evidence?

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joko104 said:
No, that is false. There is NO requirement that transgender try to look like the other sex. None whatsoever.
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you can't say that. If I require anyone I refer to as a female to at least look female then yes that's requirement for me to refer to you as female.

You can't compel speech.
In fact, your claim is an admission that being transgender is largely only about playing an external appearance social role, not an internal sense of the person's sex.
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No his claim is that he won't see you as female if you're a man that identifies as a woman. That's his right. transgender people do not have the right to force someone to accept their gender identity.

Nor would it be possible to have a more demeaning and trivializing claim of what being a female is. To you apparently it is just wearing makeup and a skirt.
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Being female means nothing if males can do it.
 
CLAX1911 said:
you can't say that. If I require anyone I refer to as a female to at least look female then yes that's requirement for me to refer to you as female.

You can't compel speech.

No his claim is that he won't see you as female if you're a man that identifies as a woman. That's his right. transgender people do not have the right to force someone to accept their gender identity.


Being female means nothing if males can do it.
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I am not aware of any transgender people trying to force others to accept their gender identity. The funny thing is usually people are not aware trans people are transgender. So no force is needed.
 
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