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Thread: What 'gay pride' is, and how it is manifested in the gay pride march.

  1. #121
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    Re: What 'gay pride' is, and how it is manifested in the gay pride march.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lisa View Post
    That would be because of your reply in #111.
    You need to quote a person for them to truly know you responded... I just happened to see this while scrolling.

    Living in a closet has nothing to do with needing a Pride Parade... that is why I asked you why you were asking me about this... because I have no commented on that at all.

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    Re: What 'gay pride' is, and how it is manifested in the gay pride march.

    maxparrish [QUOTE=maxparrish;1070468880]
    #1. No. Gay pride is not a 'single issue identity movement' when it involves systemic pervasive and historic discrimination throughout a society because identity movements of that sort of social, legal and cultural reform involve a hell of a lot more than a 'single issue'. You need a LOT of education on what' coming out' entails. before you can understand where the gay pride originates and what it turns into. It starts as a very small seed with just enough exposure the right combination of time and circumstance to grow past the shame, fear and some bad starts, to reach a potentially positive experience. A couple of those and you have the beginnings of that 'private membership club' that is fed by gay pride and feeds gay pride, and then it turns into a 'social group' including more family, more friends, maybe some co-workers. There is no one 'coming out' moment . Its a series of 'coming outs; that just keep on happening throughout our lives. We may choose to do it each time we move, or change jobs or find a new social circle or circumstances may 'out' us before we decide.

    The 'public' are all those people, who we did not personally know and not consciously decide to inform on our own directly. Whether we put a note on our front door, or used Facebook, or walked in the public streets holding our lovers hand, or kissed in the park, danced with our boyfriend at prom, or chose to accept the risk of arrest for protesting at Stonewall, or walked in a pride march, we publicly 'came out' by exposing ourselves to a fickle public opinion and governmental reaction.

    #2 You are comparing a political protest movement over a constitutional decision like Roe, or one that demands a stop to bombs in Vietnam and a suit for peace process, with a movement that involves deep social , religious and cultural roots in bigotry and discrimination on every personal social and political level over hundreds of years. I think we have a little more work to do here, and that requires a little more vigilance than the some admittedly important victories over a couple of decades. Those 'victory dances' today, are part of that social pressure that wards off complacency and backsliding under the opposite pressures by conservative and religious leaders to undo those successes which still exist

    #3 Here I will cede your larger point even if I would word it differently. There is an inevitable and ironic tension in any major social or legal reform movement looking for ways to seem relevant and maintain a subcultural identity, and still push forward towards its own irrelevance. Its a little like parents who's success is mostly measured, by not being needed anymore, still wanting to feel like parents.

    #4 Politics is by definition about identities and groups who's labels and unifying natures change. It was that way before Christ, in the Middle Ages, in the Reformation, in the Enlightenment, in the industrial age, and thereafter. Groups that were insecure, usually had one hell of a reason to be. Those that felt they were seen as outside the norms of society, were taught that they were, by other groups who dominated them. Such biases and insecurities will always be internalized as part of the socialization process within a systemically marginalized and stereotyped minority group under the tutelage of the majority. That's how this control thing goes. The fact that you feel some need to isolate sexual identity groups from all the rest throughout history, tells me more about your particular bias, than history
    ,

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    Re: What 'gay pride' is, and how it is manifested in the gay pride march.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    It is tough to go point by point when you don't break it up...

    - Straightland does not offend me... it is just a stupid phrase to use.
    - Queerland is also a stupid term...
    - I don't know who Roy Cohen is and I never said "best friends"
    - I am not talking about a coming out process... I am talking about publicly disclosing who you are to strangers just because...
    - They are all minority groups,... that was the point
    - The percentage of gay people in the USA is closer to 95%... not 85%
    - I don't care about drinking etc in public for parades... it is the reason for the parade... a Pride parade is a needy parade.

    I think that I got all the points.
    You did not get them very well.
    1. You used the word 'disgusting' sound like offense to me.
    2. You somehow think referencing your acquaintances who are gay, warrants a lot more than it does. Every bigot and homophobe in the world, including Roy Cohen, has had acquaintances and most like to claim some authority or reassurance thereby. It does neither, even if they were 'some of your very best friends' Got it?
    3. Whether it is strangers or family or friends or workers or neighbors, or the government, or media, or other gays or straights in a bar, its all the same 'coming out' process. Both straights and open gays do it constantly in their lives either through what they say or what they do, from their first date, to their deathbed. Anything that they do to suggest which gender they love romantically, or who they lust after to a third party is part of coming out. There is no difference between a straight couple putting their engagement notice in the local paper in 1960, or being photographed kissing and hugging as he comes home from WW2 for a Time Magazine cover, and a gay couple wearing a pride flag tea shirt and kissing in a facebook post in 2018. Its a celebration of romantic or sexual love in a very very public way. You just don't like it when 'the gays' do it.
    4. I chose to be generous in my stat rather than quibble with a figure, but mine a lot closer to truth than yours. Reread your sentence


    5. All parades, parties, and demostrations that based on identity, purpose or tradition with some drunkenness, drug use, lude behavior, loud and boisterousness, dancing and urination in the streets, littering, nudity, etc are equally 'needy' or not.

  4. #124
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    Re: What 'gay pride' is, and how it is manifested in the gay pride march.

    Quote Originally Posted by btthegreat View Post
    You did not get them very well.
    1. You used the word 'disgusting' sound like offense to me.
    2. You somehow think referencing your acquaintances who are gay, warrants a lot more than it does. Every bigot and homophobe in the world, including Roy Cohen, has had acquaintances and most like to claim some authority or reassurance thereby. It does neither, even if they were 'some of your very best friends' Got it?
    3. Whether it is strangers or family or friends or workers or neighbors, or the government, or media, or other gays or straights in a bar, its all the same 'coming out' process. Both straights and open gays do it constantly in their lives either through what they say or what they do, from their first date, to their deathbed. Anything that they do to suggest which gender they love romantically, or who they lust after to a third party is part of coming out. There is no difference between a straight couple putting their engagement notice in the local paper in 1960, or being photographed kissing and hugging as he comes home from WW2 for a Time Magazine cover, and a gay couple wearing a pride flag tea shirt and kissing in a facebook post in 2018. Its a celebration of romantic or sexual love in a very very public way. You just don't like it when 'the gays' do it.
    4. I chose to be generous in my stat rather than quibble with a figure, but mine a lot closer to truth than yours. Reread your sentence


    5. All parades, parties, and demostrations that based on identity, purpose or tradition with some drunkenness, drug use, lude behavior, loud and boisterousness, dancing and urination in the streets, littering, nudity, etc are equally 'needy' or not.
    The Williams Institute

    No... it is much closer to 95%, actually.

    I did not use the term "disgusting". At least not that I can find or that would be used about homosexuals or gay pride parades...

    If you are going to lie then I don't have much else to say to you...

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    Re: What 'gay pride' is, and how it is manifested in the gay pride march.

    Objectively, one who would do those things would have anything but pride.

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    Your comments would be so much more impactful if your 'pride' parades didnt involve a bunch of clowns dancing around in assless chaps with dildoes glued to their foreheads. Sorry...there is pride...and then there is whatever the **** it is you think you are doing during your parades that indicate 'pride'. Its really hard to take any of you seriously after that.

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    Re: What 'gay pride' is, and how it is manifested in the gay pride march.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    The Williams Institute

    No... it is much closer to 95%, actually.

    I did not use the term "disgusting". At least not that I can find or that would be used about homosexuals or gay pride parades...

    If you are going to lie then I don't have much else to say to you...
    You used 'disgusting in response by my use of 'straightland' . Doublecheck.

    Would you PLEASE reread your original claim. Here it is, copy and pasted " The percentage of gay people in the USA is closer to 95%... not 85%". That is what you wrote. 95% of Americans are not gay. Now read mine. My reference to 85% refers to the majority, which would be straight. I really thought I was avoiding this crap by being generous with my figure. I don't care if we are 5 or 10 or 15%.

    If however we really are 95%, its time for a PINK REVOLUTION! Guess who's going to be coming out of the closet now! You will need those straight pride parades after all


    M
    Last edited by btthegreat; 08-13-19 at 10:14 PM.

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    Re: What 'gay pride' is, and how it is manifested in the gay pride march.

    Quote Originally Posted by btthegreat View Post
    You used 'disgusting in response by my use of 'straightland' . Doublecheck.
    No I didn't... YOU DID. You used the term and I merely said that you are the one that added those terms. YOU. Not me.

    Would you PLEASE reread your original claim. Here it is, copy and pasted " The percentage of gay people in the USA is closer to 95%... not 85%". That is what you wrote.
    Dude, that is known as a typo. Jeezuz.

    95% of Americans are not gay. Now read mine. My reference to 85% refers to the majority, which would be straight. I really thought I was avoiding this crap by being generous with my figure. I don't care if we are 5 or 10 or 15%.
    Between 3%-4% of Americans are gay, approximately. that means that 95% or so, are HETEROSEXUAL. Does that help?

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    Re: What 'gay pride' is, and how it is manifested in the gay pride march.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    No I didn't... YOU DID. You used the term and I merely said that you are the one that added those terms. YOU. Not me.



    Dude, that is known as a typo. Jeezuz.



    Between 3%-4% of Americans are gay, approximately. that means that 95% or so, are HETEROSEXUAL. Does that help?
    yes and no. It clarifies your claim, but it means I can't shove your ass in the closet with threats of over a century of legal cultural and religious retribution, and then blame you when you take the risks of coming out and party when you survive, then thrive under those risks!

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    Re: What 'gay pride' is, and how it is manifested in the gay pride march.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    You need to quote a person for them to truly know you responded... I just happened to see this while scrolling.

    Living in a closet has nothing to do with needing a Pride Parade... that is why I asked you why you were asking me about this... because I have no commented on that at all.
    Who said that they need a pride parade? Nobody needs a parade.

    What is it about LGBT people that bothers you so? Kiwis are usually decent people so I have to wondner about your motives.

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    Re: What 'gay pride' is, and how it is manifested in the gay pride march.

    Quote Originally Posted by Angel View Post
    A Question about Revalorization

    Please note: this question is not about gay pride specifically; it encompasses pride in all its forms: national pride, city pride, team pride, self pride, and so on.

    The question is: When did pride become a virtue?

    It was, for a couple thousand years, considered a vice -- the chief sin among the Seven Deadly Sins, and before that the chief crime in Ancient Greek culture. Remember Oedipus? and hubris? In both pagan and Christian cultures "pride goeth before a fall."

    When did pride stop being a vice and become a virtue?
    Quote Originally Posted by Angel View Post
    So?
    When did overweening pride become a good thing?
    When did excessive pride become a virtue?
    <a href=http://i.imgur.com/u68aMie.jpg target=_blank rel=nofollow>http://i.imgur.com/u68aMie.jpg</a>
    "I'm not 100% sure that you and I exist, but I'm surer that God exists than that you exist, and I'm as sure God exists as I am that I exist."
    Angel Trismegistus

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