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Thread: Highly Religious Couples have a better Sex Life, survey finds.

  1. #251
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    Re: Highly Religious Couples have a better Sex Life, survey finds.

    Quote Originally Posted by RAMOSS View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    how do you know to the point where you gain the right to kill her?
    It's a metaphysical issue, and when it comes to a woman right to control their body, and the right of a clump of cells to survive, I'll let the woman decide up to the end of the second trimester. After that, I would say that it is a matter between her and her physician, based on her heath, and the development of the fetus. That criteria they use to decide her medical procedures is what is known as 'none of my bushiness
    You appear to be confused, RAMOSS. On the one hand you say that it is a "metaphysical issue"; on the other, you treat it as a purely physical issue, a matter of "a clump of cells." This confusion is then used to support the political talking points of the pro-abortion camp. In short, your post is incoherent.
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  2. #252
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    Re: Highly Religious Couples have a better Sex Life, survey finds.

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    1. I like how you carefully ignored the 99% of that post where you were demosntrated to be misconstruing my words.


    2. Speaking of misconstruing my words and projection, please explain to me how the argument that:

    For the individual, being murdered is worse than not being murdered, even if your life is a struggle.

    Requires the conclusion that:

    Abortion is worse than the Holocaust


    Alternately, please point to the post in this thread where I stated that Abortion is worse than the Holocaust.
    You’re saying abortion is murder and being murdered is worse than being terrorized and tortured. You brought up the Holocaust comparisons yourself, and since people actually survived the Holocaust, you are saying that being aborted is worse than surviving Holocaust.

    You’re simply trying dance around what you have said.

    And I said from the beginning, the American pro life movement looks crazy to Muslims, Jews, and Christians outside the US. We all agree abortion ends a life. We all agree that abortion is not acceptable to god, but the rest of us do not go around using inflammatory, hyperbolic language and we are not going to claim abortion is worse than the Holocaust

  3. #253
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    Re: Highly Religious Couples have a better Sex Life, survey finds.

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    By the rights of others, absolutely.



    I did, actually. In this section, right here:



    If you need me to be more direct:


    1. You made a claim about rights and definitions (namely, that one's physical ability to exercise one's rights determined whether or not one had them)
    2. I showed how that claim about rights and definitions would lead to results you (likely) wouldnt' approve of (namely, that this would legitimize horrific abuse of people who, through one physical ailment or another, were unable to exercise a right), and
    3. You responded by describing law, which is a different field entirely than your earlier claim of rights and definitions.


    Let's use an example:

    [indent]Person A: Rape isn't necessarily wrong.
    Person B: How can you say that? Wouldn't you find it horrific if you or someone you loved was raped?
    Person A: Aha! But isn't it true that the law didn't used to recognize rape within marriage?!?[/i]

    Person A (you) has attempted to use describing the law to cover for the fact that their logic was produced a result they didn't like.

    I would definitely say that the rights of a human being are not determined by its geography (in the womb or out), and that human rights are, indeed, equal.

    The same Creator of our Rights who gave them to us in the first place.
    Er, where did I ever support law over rights? Or even basic compassion and reduction of pain and suffering? Which quote(s)? And since I dont remember doing so, that pretty much cancels out your rape ex.

    And I'm good with an answer to 'who says' as those that first recognized them: and that would be man. All rights are a man-made concept.

    What does your statement, "human rights are indeed equal?" mean? Btw, no non-religious human rights orgs, national or international, recognize rights for the unborn. (This seems relevant to yor statement but I believe yours needs clarification....it makes no sense, it's incomplete.)
    Quote Originally Posted by code1211 View Post
    This seems less like palliative care and more like a last meal.
    Quote Originally Posted by Wan View Post
    You can think that I am stupid all you want. It won't stop me from being racist.
    Quote Originally Posted by Angel View Post
    Parrots of the Caribbean For Abortion!
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

  4. #254
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    Re: Highly Religious Couples have a better Sex Life, survey finds.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rich2018 View Post
    I'd rather survive anything than fail to survive abortion.

    Some life is better than no life - if your relatives disagree ask them why they made the effort to survive.
    Who says? People choose differently all the time. Who says you (or the govt) could assume that for everyone?

    People choose to give up life for family, country, principles, religion, etc.

    IMO 'your' belief or opinion on that should not be forced by law on others.
    Quote Originally Posted by code1211 View Post
    This seems less like palliative care and more like a last meal.
    Quote Originally Posted by Wan View Post
    You can think that I am stupid all you want. It won't stop me from being racist.
    Quote Originally Posted by Angel View Post
    Parrots of the Caribbean For Abortion!
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

  5. #255
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    Re: Highly Religious Couples have a better Sex Life, survey finds.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    Er, where did I ever support law over rights?
    Now you are attempting to attack a strawman.

    I have never claimed that you "supported law over rights"

    I pointed out that, when your definition of Rights proved indefensible, you switched to arguing the law instead.

    Or even basic compassion and reduction of pain and suffering? Which quote(s)? And since I dont remember doing so, that pretty much cancels out your rape ex.
    Not at all. The person in that example, realizing that the statement they had made produced results they couldn't countenance, instead tried to switch to a discussion of legality, in hopes of dropping the failed logic they'd put forward.

    Just as, for example, your claim right here in Post 182 that whether or not someone had rights depended on:
    1. whether or not they had "entered into a state of society" and
    2. whether or not they could exercise those rights.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    Jews and blacks were entirely capable of exercising their rights and being a part of society.

    The unborn are not. Your argument fails.

    ….

    Before birth, the unborn has no rights that can be separated from the mother (physically, legally, ethically, practically). It's a dependency that truly demonstrates that it is not equal.

    They do not have a single right that they can exercise independently.
    Was shown to have results that you weren't willing to defend in Post 195 (Highly Religious Couples have a better Sex Life, survey finds.), namely, that the argument that one doesn't have rights if one is dependent on others or otherwise unable to independently exercise them would mean that 5 day old infants and people in coma's didn't have rights.

    Your response to the results produced by your theory of Rights in Post 231 (Highly Religious Couples have a better Sex Life, survey finds.) was to instead attempt to shift the topic to Legal Status. Here you are doing it:

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill
    Good point. Babies who were born 5 days prior are well known for their ability to independently exercise their right to free speech, moral expression, own weapons, and have their houses houses from the forcible stationing of armed troops.

    But, because I'm interested in pursuing the implications of logic - by your argument above, patients in a coma can be killed by the hospital they are utterly dependent on, because they are no longer really people with rights. Do you actually support such a policy?
    Once born, there is a legal status recognized...people don't lose that status but in some periods of their life...minority, orphans, mentally challenged, ill, in a coma, brain dead etc, they have legal represents like relatives or the state that also make decisions for them, up to and including death.


    And I'm good with an answer to 'who says' as those that first recognized them: and that would be man. All rights are a man-made concept.
    then they do not exist, and, when populations are ethnically cleansed, women are stoned in honor-killings, or children are sold into slavery, they have no cause for complaint, because their rights not to have these things occur, not being recognized by the population or government around them, do not exist.

    If the existence or scope of your rights are dependent on what others are willing to do or not do to you, then they aren't rights at all. They are forbearances, or privileges.

    What does your statement, "human rights are indeed equal?" mean?
    My right to life is the equal of your own. My right to not have government impinge my speech, similarly equal. Ditto right to my faith, right to defend myself, so on, and so forth.

    Btw, no non-religious human rights orgs, national or international, recognize rights for the unborn.
    that's fine. For most of the anti-slavery movement, no non-religiously motivated organizations recognized their rights, either.

  6. #256
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    Re: Highly Religious Couples have a better Sex Life, survey finds.

    Quote Originally Posted by SheWolf View Post
    You’re saying abortion is murder and being murdered is worse than being terrorized and tortured.
    I do indeed say that it is better to be terrorized and abused - but survive - than to be murdered.

    You brought up the Holocaust comparisons yourself,
    Actually I just listed several famous examples of times in our history when we, as a species, have dehumanized others in order to enable abusing them. You are the one who has - again, and again - attempted to make it a comparative affair.

    If you like, I can (again) quote for you the posts where you do so, in response to me not doing so.

    and since people actually survived the Holocaust, you are saying that being aborted is worse than surviving Holocaust.
    I would say that surviving the Holocaust would be better than being murdered in the Holocaust - would you?

    You’re simply trying dance around what you have said.
    Not at all. But, for some weird reason, you really want me to make the argument that "abortion is worse than the Holocaust" (for an upteempth example, see below), probably so you can try to react emotively off of the claim and try to use that to justify refusing to respond.


    And I said from the beginning, the American pro life movement looks crazy to Muslims, Jews, and Christians outside the US.
    And, again, that isn't actually an argument that I find carries any weight. If you're argument is You Darn Americans' care more about the rights of the vulnerable than others, and Christian Americans are particularly known for it.... well, gosh. Alright.

    We all agree abortion ends a life. We all agree that abortion is not acceptable to god
    you just don't think that makes it all that big of deal. got it.

    , but the rest of us do not go around using inflammatory, hyperbolic language and we are not going to claim abortion is worse than the Holocaust
    Please point to where in this thread I have argued that abortion is worse than the Holocaust.

  7. #257
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    Re: Highly Religious Couples have a better Sex Life, survey finds.

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    I do indeed say that it is better to be terrorized and abused - but survive - than to be murdered.



    Actually I just listed several famous examples of times in our history when we, as a species, have dehumanized others in order to enable abusing them. You are the one who has - again, and again - attempted to make it a comparative affair.

    If you like, I can (again) quote for you the posts where you do so, in response to me not doing so.



    I would say that surviving the Holocaust would be better than being murdered in the Holocaust - would you?



    Not at all. But, for some weird reason, you really want me to make the argument that "abortion is worse than the Holocaust" (for an upteempth example, see below), probably so you can try to react emotively off of the claim and try to use that to justify refusing to respond.




    And, again, that isn't actually an argument that I find carries any weight. If you're argument is You Darn Americans' care more about the rights of the vulnerable than others, and Christian Americans are particularly known for it.... well, gosh. Alright.



    you just don't think that makes it all that big of deal. got it.



    Please point to where in this thread I have argued that abortion is worse than the Holocaust.
    You’re constantly saying that being aborted is worse than surviving the Holocaust

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