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[W:517] Sexual Hypocrisy

Angel's Top 20
Hollywood Sex Symbols
on Parade

The Twenties: Silent yet Roaring

#20

nixObOUl.jpg


"The It Girl"

Clara Bow

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Glorification or Objectification?​
 
Both. One does not need exclude the other.

Compliment the appearance of a young child, and they beam, with a touch of doubt, a blush of embarrassment, perhaps, but joy for both sexes. After leaving handprints and images of local fauna on cave walls, statuary of fertile pregnant women and phalluses show us the earliest objectifications of sexual beauty. What could be more beautiful than a pregnant woman, perpetuation of the species, and the instrument that made pregnancy possible, with a bit of fun? Is there anything we take joy from that we don't objectify?

The confusion of objectification with respect comes from those who feel ugly, inadequate, dislike of self and is unnatural, a negative for societies as a whole. Plato said that women should be respected for their minds, not just appreciated as chattel, vessels of intellect not merely servitude. Do we not service each other in healthy relationships? Healthy relationships are balanced between appreciation of beauty, lust, and intellect. Dad thinks he rules, but mom calls the shots.

Spartan women admonished men going to war with "Come home victorious, or come home on your shields." or some such melodramatic nonsense, but it was the commands of women. Dad told us to do our homework, mom makes sure we do our homework, and when we misbehave warns us "Wait until your father gets home!" And dad would say "this hurts me more than it does you." Mom calls the shots, again. :) My wife beams when I compliment her appearance, and I embarrassing bluster when my daughters say "you look good today in that sweater, dad." If a day passes without my complimenting my wife, she assumes I'm sick or being rude and neglectful. I will suffer for the latter, enjoy her administrations for the former.

Marilyn Monroe was gorgeous, so was the mother of every man. I have a photo of mom in her wedding dress, dad looking like he wants to escape the all conquering visage she presents, commanding my den, none of Marilyn.
 
OldFatGuy said:
Both. One does not need exclude the other.

Compliment the appearance of a young child, and they beam, with a touch of doubt, a blush of embarrassment, perhaps, but joy for both sexes. After leaving handprints and images of local fauna on cave walls, statuary of fertile pregnant women and phalluses show us the earliest objectifications of sexual beauty. What could be more beautiful than a pregnant woman, perpetuation of the species, and the instrument that made pregnancy possible, with a bit of fun? Is there anything we take joy from that we don't objectify?

The confusion of objectification with respect comes from those who feel ugly, inadequate, dislike of self and is unnatural, a negative for societies as a whole. Plato said that women should be respected for their minds, not just appreciated as chattel, vessels of intellect not merely servitude. Do we not service each other in healthy relationships? Healthy relationships are balanced between appreciation of beauty, lust, and intellect. Dad thinks he rules, but mom calls the shots.

Spartan women admonished men going to war with "Come home victorious, or come home on your shields." or some such melodramatic nonsense, but it was the commands of women. Dad told us to do our homework, mom makes sure we do our homework, and when we misbehave warns us "Wait until your father gets home!" And dad would say "this hurts me more than it does you." Mom calls the shots, again. :) My wife beams when I compliment her appearance, and I embarrassing bluster when my daughters say "you look good today in that sweater, dad." If a day passes without my complimenting my wife, she assumes I'm sick or being rude and neglectful. I will suffer for the latter, enjoy her administrations for the former.

Marilyn Monroe was gorgeous, so was the mother of every man. I have a photo of mom in her wedding dress, dad looking like he wants to escape the all conquering visage she presents, commanding my den, none of Marilyn.
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This is poetry, man. You alone have made this thread a success as far as I'm concerned, a thread generally misunderstood by our fellow members or, if understood, avoided as too uncomfortable. Needless to say, my view of this matter is very much like your own: objectification is unavoidable and, if in the service of glorification, I'm all for it.
 
Angel said:
This is poetry, man. You alone have made this thread a success as far as I'm concerned, a thread generally misunderstood by our fellow members or, if understood, avoided as too uncomfortable. Needless to say, my view of this matter is very much like your own: objectification is unavoidable and, if in the service of glorification, I'm all for it.
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Objectification of what? And objectification and glorification are not linked at all. They are discrete, unrelated ways to view anything.
 
devildavid said:
Objectification of what? And objectification and glorification are not linked at all. They are discrete, unrelated ways to view anything.
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Read the OP. This thread is about the hypocrisy inherent to American culture -- at least to American culture of the last half-century -- of objectifying women, for aesthetic or sexual reasons, and at the same time, for political reasons, deploring the objectification of women.

Anything you look at is objectified.
 
Angel said:
Read the OP. This thread is about the hypocrisy inherent to American culture -- at least to American culture of the last half-century -- of objectifying women, for aesthetic or sexual reasons, and at the same time, for political reasons, deploring the objectification of women.

Anything you look at is objectified.
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No, anything you look at is not objectified.

And give one example of someone/anyone of great influence deploring the objectification of women. You have not made your case that American culture, in general, does this. Or that the same people who promote objectification also deplore it. Examples? Any? Bueller?
 
Angel said:
Read the OP. This thread is about the hypocrisy inherent to American culture -- at least to American culture of the last half-century -- of objectifying women, for aesthetic or sexual reasons, and at the same time, for political reasons, deploring the objectification of women.

Anything you look at is objectified.
Click to expand...

Angel, definitely get your point. Is it hypocrisy for a society to have different views and goals? For the CORPORATIONS objectifying women, are they not fighting for a particular segment money?
For the politicians deploring the objectification of women,, are they not going into public forums to attain a certain segment vote?

If there is a singular or entity continuously objectifying women and another entity continuously deploring this action then we really do not have hypocrisy.
 
Doris Plunge said:
It’s more complex than that. So called heterosexual males ( a categorisation we should remember has only been used for just over a century) demonstrate a peculiar fascination for the details of same sex practices, especially of the male/male kind. They invariably want to know ‘Who plays the woman, and who plays the man?” When in the real world numerous surveys of gay males tell us a high percentate don’t even practice penentrative intercourse. Then we have this weird idea many straight males have that effeminte men are always passive and butch gays are always active. As a 73 year old gay male I can assure you life, especially in the bedroom, is full of surprises.
On the other hand I don’t think we should be accusing straight males of thinking about sex, sex, sex 24/7 when many gay males are just as obsessed.
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Reverse the straight and gay in that last sentence and you have my point.
 
TheGoverness said:
Um, I can only speak for myself, but as a person afflicted with the big gay, I think about sex a lot. I'm sure that goes for most of my LGBT brethren. We all have sex drives, after all.
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I am similarly afflicted, although "afflicted" is not the word I would have chosen. The point of my post, which everyone except me seems to have missed, is that over the years gays have been routinely been accused of being sex-obsessed by straight people who are apparently oblivious the the obsession mainstream, i.e. hetero society has with heterosexual sex.
 
charliebrown said:
Angel, definitely get your point. Is it hypocrisy for a society to have different views and goals? For the CORPORATIONS objectifying women, are they not fighting for a particular segment money?
For the politicians deploring the objectification of women,, are they not going into public forums to attain a certain segment vote?

If there is a singular or entity continuously objectifying women and another entity continuously deploring this action then we really do not have hypocrisy.
Click to expand...
And I get your point. But the corporate exec of your example, if he in fact personally deplores the sexual objectification of women on principle, and yet engages in the sexual objectification of women in business, is arguably hypocritical, no?

Same with the politician, if he in fact personally sees nothing wrong with the sexual objectification of women and yet deplores it publicly in order to win votes, no?
 
Angel's Top 20
Hollywood Sex Symbols
on Parade

The Twenties: Silent yet Roaring

#19

Er7aIQ1l.jpg


"Lulu in Hollywood"

Louise Brooks

9z3ZLlzm.jpg


Glorification or Objectification?​
 
Angel said:
When one looks at something, one makes an object of that something. That something is the object of one's gaze.
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No, that doesn't happen when one looks at something at all. Semantics doesn't make it so. Objectifying is not a mere physical act, it is an interpretation of what you are looking at. One can distinguish between a living creature and a non living object. Reading the contents of a book is different than looking at a book on a shelf.
 
devildavid said:
No, it is not. That is not the meaning of objectify.
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It is not the definition you are seeking, but no less accurate.

i.e. express (something abstract) in a concrete form: good poetry objectifies emotions and sentiment;

or

appoints characteristics as objects of the negative or positive;

as opposed to:

humanity degraded to the status of a mere object.
 
devildavid said:
No, that doesn't happen when one looks at something at all. Semantics doesn't make it so. Objectifying is not a mere physical act, it is an interpretation of what you are looking at. One can distinguish between a living creature and a non living object. Reading the contents of a book is different than looking at a book on a shelf.
Click to expand...
One is interpreting an object in all casses. Perception is fundamentally just that, the objectification of sensory data.
 
devildavid said:
No, it is not. That is not the meaning of objectify.
Click to expand...
OldFatGuy said:
It is not the definition you are seeking, but no less accurate....
Click to expand...

-ify

This suffix means "to make" or "to make into" depending on whether it is attached to an adjective or a noun.

purify = to make pure

mummify = to make into a mummy

objectify = to make into an object
 
I was invited to watch videos on a very liberal/Demo occupied BET Jams. The women are depicted as hoes fondling themselves,playing with snakes and shaking themselves as the thugs wear their gold studded crosses. Atheists would have their erections supporting this filth as young teens fantasize being there with stacks of $100.00 bills all over the place. This liberal/Demo run crap sends a bad message of money in which they never have...guns drawn as they promote shooting each other. Women as hoes. Yes, this is hypocrisy at its best.
 
Angel said:
One is interpreting an object in all casses. Perception is fundamentally just that, the objectification of sensory data.
Click to expand...

Living beings aren't considered objects. Perception is not objectification, fundamentally or otherwise.
 
Angel said:
And I get your point. But the corporate exec of your example, if he in fact personally deplores the sexual objectification of women on principle, and yet engages in the sexual objectification of women in business, is arguably hypocritical, no?

Same with the politician, if he in fact personally sees nothing wrong with the sexual objectification of women and yet deplores it publicly in order to win votes, no?
Click to expand...

You have so far provided no real life examples of this.
 
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