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[W:517] Sexual Hypocrisy

Rich2018 said:
No I didn't read the answer to the questions because it's not there....
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Of course it's there:
Your [big word deleted] posts on religious hypocrisy...
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Are you not posting endlessly on "religious hypocrisy"?
Now instead of wasting any more bandwidth on your hobbyhorse, try posting on the topic of the thread, which is the broad cultural hypocrisy illustrated by the question of sexual objectification. Your obsession with religion does not belong in this thread. Take it to Belief and Skepticism.
 
Angel said:
Of course it's there..
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If it were you could EASILY quote it, except you can't

As always you response is, it's there just look for it, I'm not going to give you a quote (which you can't do anyway).


...are you not posting endlessly on "religious hypocrisy"?
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Hey this is a thread on hypocrisy isn't it. I'm sure you agree that the examples supplied most definitely meet the criteria - even though you're singularly unable to come up with examples of your own.



...now instead of wasting any more bandwidth on your hobbyhorse, try posting on the topic of the thread...
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C'mon then

Say what you mean and give us an example of sexual hypocrisy and why it is hypocritical of the person(s) doing it.
 
Rich2018 said:
If it were you could EASILY quote it, except you can't

As always you response is, it's there just look for it, I'm not going to give you a quote (which you can't do anyway).

Hey this is a thread on hypocrisy isn't it. I'm sure you agree that the examples supplied most definitely meet the criteria - even though you're singularly unable to come up with examples of your own.

C'mon then

Say what you mean and give us an example of sexual hypocrisy and why it is hypocritical of the person(s) doing it.
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I did quote it, and you re-quoted my quote. You clearly are deficient in understanding this matter, and as I have said earlier in reply to your pesky posts, I refuse to underwrite your lack of understanding. Please take your bigotry to Beliefs and Skepticism where it belongs.
 
Angel said:
I did quote it, and you re-quoted my quote. You clearly are deficient in understanding this matter, and as I have said earlier in reply to your pesky posts, I refuse to underwrite your lack of understanding. Please take your bigotry to Beliefs and Skepticism where it belongs.
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No, you're deficient in saying what you mean. By all mean take this opportunity to say it again - but you won't.


As always you response is, it's there just look for it, I'm not going to give you a quote (which you can't do anyway).

Hey this is a thread on hypocrisy - I'm sure you agree that the examples supplied most definitely meet the criteria - even though you're singularly unable to come up with examples of your own.



Say what you mean and give us an example of sexual hypocrisy and why it is hypocritical of the person(s) doing it.
 
Rich2018 said:
No, you're deficient in saying what you mean. By all mean take this opportunity to say it again - but you won't.

As always you response is, it's there just look for it, I'm not going to give you a quote (which you can't do anyway).

Hey this is a thread on hypocrisy - I'm sure you agree that the examples supplied most definitely meet the criteria - even though you're singularly unable to come up with examples of your own.

Say what you mean and give us an example of sexual hypocrisy and why it is hypocritical of the person(s) doing it.
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If you don't understand the phrase "religious hypocrisy," then the problem here yours.
 
Angel said:
If you don't understand the phrase "religious hypocrisy," then the problem here yours.
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Oh I do, Sexual Hypocrisy is saying one thing relating to sex, like being loyal and not committing adultery, yet doing the very opposite:


"Ted Arthur Haggard is the founder and former pastor of New Life Church in Colorado Springs, Colorado...he served as President of the National Association of Evangelicals from 2003 until November 2006.

Haggard made national headlines in November 2006 when male prostitute Mike Jones alleged that Haggard, who had advocated against the legalization of same-sex marriage, had paid him for sex for three years and had also purchased and used crystal methamphetamine...after initially denying the allegations, Haggard claimed to have purchased methamphetamine and thrown it away....later, he admitted to having used drugs and participated in sexual activity with Jones..."



Ted Haggard - Wikipedia


Would you agree that is sheer Sexual Hypocrisy ?
 
Risible Reprise​

Angel said:
ECrws3U.jpg


Your perseverating posts on religious hypocrisy remind those of us of literary bent of the climactic moment in Comrade's classic sea story in which the somniloquent utterances of the titular character disclose the nature of the beast to an astonished crew. Did you have that character and scene in mind while posting, I wonder? Have you read the story? The resonance is uncanny!
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Risible Reprise Redux​

Angel said:
Angel and the Stone
a contemporary myth
by Jingo

NcEmBZJ.jpg

"Angel attempting to close out a discussion with Grace and Wit"
700px x 795px
Sharpie on dry wall
rest room
Think Coffee
Mercer Street
Greenwich Village​
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Angel said:
Risible Reprise Redux
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Again some random picture and no argument from Angel:




A famous case of sexual HYPOCRISY from the church:


"Jimmy Lee Swaggart is an American Pentecostal evangelist (whose) TV ministry, began in 1971, has a viewing audience both in the U.S. and internationally....at its height in the 1980s, his telecast was transmitted to over 3,000 stations and cable systems each week. He currently owns and operates the SonLife Broadcasting Network.

Sexual scandals with prostitutes in the late 1980s and early 1990s led the Assemblies of God to defrock him. As a result of the scandals, Swaggart temporarily stepped down as the head of Jimmy Swaggart Ministries...."


Jimmy Swaggart - Wikipedia



What hypocrisy - how can a man or a church preach one thing (fidelity, thou shalt not commit adultery) and do another ???
 
These posts posed the central question of the thread: Glorification or Objectification?
Endless posts about religious hypocrisy miss the whole point of the thread and amount to endless hobbyhorsing around.

Angel said:
Angel's Top 20
Hollywood Sex Symbols
on Parade

#20 Clara Bow
https://www.debatepolitics.com/sex-and-sexuality/357115-sexual-hypocrisy-11.html#post1070126612
#19 Louise Brooks
https://www.debatepolitics.com/sex-and-sexuality/357115-sexual-hypocrisy-12.html#post1070129726
#18 Jean Harlow
https://www.debatepolitics.com/sex-and-sexuality/357115-sexual-hypocrisy-16.html#post1070134570
#17 Marlene Dietrich
https://www.debatepolitics.com/sex-and-sexuality/357115-sexual-hypocrisy-19.html#post1070146716
#16 Dorothy Lamour
https://www.debatepolitics.com/sex-and-sexuality/357115-sexual-hypocrisy-20.html#post1070150130
#15 Betty Grable
https://www.debatepolitics.com/sex-and-sexuality/357115-sexual-hypocrisy-21.html#post1070157530
#14 Jane Russell
https://www.debatepolitics.com/sex-and-sexuality/357115-sexual-hypocrisy-22.html#post1070164436
#13 Jayne Mansfield
https://www.debatepolitics.com/sex-and-sexuality/357115-sexual-hypocrisy-23.html#post1070169165
#12 Marilyn Monroe
https://www.debatepolitics.com/sex-and-sexuality/357115-sexual-hypocrisy-24.html#post1070176581
#11 Raquel Welch
https://www.debatepolitics.com/sex-and-sexuality/357115-sexual-hypocrisy-25.html#post1070188023
#10 Natalie Wood
https://www.debatepolitics.com/sex-and-sexuality/357115-sexual-hypocrisy-26.html#post1070200362
#9 Pam Grier
https://www.debatepolitics.com/sex-and-sexuality/357115-sexual-hypocrisy-28.html#post1070205058
#8 Bo Derek
https://www.debatepolitics.com/sex-and-sexuality/357115-sexual-hypocrisy-30.html#post1070223425
#7 Sharon Stone
https://www.debatepolitics.com/sex-and-sexuality/357115-sexual-hypocrisy-31.html#post1070240028
#6 Jessica Alba
https://www.debatepolitics.com/sex-and-sexuality/357115-sexual-hypocrisy-32.html#post1070273040
#5 Halle Berry
https://www.debatepolitics.com/sex-and-sexuality/357115-sexual-hypocrisy-33.html#post1070315436
#4 Scarlett Johansson
https://www.debatepolitics.com/sex-and-sexuality/357115-sexual-hypocrisy-34.html#post1070353290
#3 Angelina Jolie
https://www.debatepolitics.com/sex-and-sexuality/357115-sexual-hypocrisy-35.html#post1070442433
#2 Jennifer Lawrence
https://www.debatepolitics.com/sex-and-sexuality/357115-sexual-hypocrisy-36.html#post1070490680
#1 Jason Momoa
https://www.debatepolitics.com/sex-and-sexuality/357115-sexual-hypocrisy-40.html#post1070504108


Glorification or Objectification?
​
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Angel said:
These posts posed the central question of the thread: Glorification or Objectification?
Endless posts about religious hypocrisy miss the whole point of the thread and amount to endless hobbyhorsing around.
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Glorification or objectification ? I'm not sure there's a difference.
Even if you can agree a section of society focuses on aesthetic appeal for advancement - eg: the advertising or cosmetics industry then you have still to explain why this is hypocrisy.

The central issue of this thread is that hypocrisy from the holier-than-thou right and the church is rife. AND it can only be hypocritical if a group like the church says one thing and does another. Like constantly preaching fidelity whilst being adulterous at the same time.
THAT is hypocrisy.



Right now you object to sexual images on open display - but the people/organizations that put them there are NOT guilty of preaching a different view. So they CANNOT be hypocritical.
 
Rich2018 said:
...The central issue of this thread is that hypocrisy from the holier-than-thou right and the church is rife. AND it can only be hypocritical if a group like the church says one thing and does another. Like constantly preaching fidelity whilst being adulterous at the same time.
THAT is hypocrisy...
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No, that is not the cenbtral issue of this thread. That is the issue of your derailment of this thread.
 
Angel said:
No, that is not the cenbtral issue of this thread. That is the issue of your derailment of this thread.
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Hypocrisy cam only be a group or person saying one thing and doing another.

Having one group champion your view or sexuality and another group break that view is NOT hypocrisy of ANY kind

If that was your original view is is false and the premise for this thread is unsound.


Do you at least admit the the examples given to you from American churches today constitute, at the very least, sexual hypocrisy ?
 
Rich2018 said:
Hypocrisy cam only be a group or person saying one thing and doing another.
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That's your narrow understanding of the concept.
Cognitive dissonance is a form of hypocrisy.
Believing one thing and saying another is also hypocrisy.
Celebrating and objecting to the same thing is hypocrisy.
Condemning what you don't understand is hypocrisy.
This discussion of hypocrisy is not restricted to your narrow understanding of the concept.
 
Angel said:
That's your narrow understanding of the concept.
Cognitive dissonance is a form of hypocrisy.
Believing one thing and saying another is also hypocrisy.
Celebrating and objecting to the same thing is hypocrisy.
Condemning what you don't understand is hypocrisy.
This discussion of hypocrisy is not restricted to your narrow understanding of the concept.
Click to expand...



"The leader of a popular congregation in Florida is refusing to resign after being caught in bed with a member’s wife—fleeing naked—as he states that he has “already received” God’s forgiveness.

“What I want from God I’ve already received it and that’s His forgiveness,” O. Jermaine Simmons, pastor of Jacob Chapel Baptist Church in Tallahassee, told his congregation on Jan. 22, just days after the incident.

“What I am asking of our members is something I may or may not get, and that is your prayers. And I’m asking for your forgiveness,” he continued, receiving an “amen” from those gathered, as well as a standing ovation...."


Sheer and utter hypocrisy from the church do you not agree ?


'Pastor' Caught in Adultery With Member's Wife, Fleeing Naked Won't Resign Since He's 'Already' Forgiven | Christian News Network


Saying on one hand to be faith and obey the commandments, whist on the other sleeping with another woman.
And this was supposed to be the leader of the congregation....how can YOU or anyone follow such a religion that displays such open HYPOCRISY ?
 
Utter Hypocrisy:

"Billy Graham’s grandson Tullian Tchividjian has resigned from his pulpit at Coral Ridge Presbyterian, a high-profile church in South Florida, after admitting he had an affair. He released the following statement to The Washington Post:

'I resigned from my position at Coral Ridge Presbyterian Church today due to ongoing marital issues. As many of you know, I returned from a trip a few months back and discovered that my wife was having an affair. Heartbroken and devastated, I informed our church leadership and requested a sabbatical to focus exclusively on my marriage and family. As her affair continued, we separated. Sadly and embarrassingly, I subsequently sought comfort in a friend and developed an inappropriate relationship myself. Last week I was approached by our church leaders and they asked me about my own affair. I admitted to it and it was decided that the best course of action would be for me to resign. Both my wife and I are heartbroken over our actions and we ask you to pray for us and our family that God would give us the grace we need to weather this heart wrenching storm. We are amazingly grateful for the team of men and women who are committed to walking this difficult path with us. Please pray for the healing of deep wounds and we kindly ask that you respect our privacy'...


Tchividjian, 42, has been married to his wife, Kim, since 1994 and they have three children."



https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...ing-an-affair/



Billy Graham not only preached fidelity, he observed a personal rule never to be alone or travel alone with a woman for fear of gossip. Now his OWN grandson who preached the SAME message is caught having an AFFAIR.

Sheer HYPOCRISY from his church - they preach one think and practice the OPPOSITE.


Hypocrisy.
 
Angel said:
Freud Agrees With Angel

"In matters of sexuality we are at present, every one of us, ill or well, nothing but hypocrites."
— Sigmund Freud

Sexuality in the Aetiology of the Neuroses (1898), In James Strachey (ed.), The Standard Edition of the Complete Psychological Works of Sigmund Freud (1952), Vol. 3, 266.
Sigmund Freud Quotes on Sexuality from - 69 Science Quotes - Dictionary of Science Quotations and Scientist Quotes
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Sexual Hypocrisy:

"Two married women were parishioners of the Covenant Reformed Church who (separately) went to their minister, Pastor Edouard, for counseling. They say that he pressured them into having sexual relations with him. In each relationship, at least some (and perhaps all) of the sex was not physically coerced...Pastor Edouard was indeed ultimately convicted of sexual exploitation by a counselor or therapist, and sentenced to five years in prison.

...they claimed that various statements by the church, such as labeling their conduct "adultery," and arguing that they were partly responsible for their conduct, were defamatory. Second, they claimed that the statements blaming the women negligently caused the women emotional distress..."



Minister Has Sex with Married Parishioner — Can Church Be Liable for Saying the Parishioner Committed Adultery? – Reason.com


A church pastor committed adultery with two women from his congregation while preaching the Bible and the 10 Commandments. Thou shall NOT commit adultery.


Sheer HYPOCRISY.
 
Angel Agrees With Freud

UGChDY4m.jpg
​


"Look up the meaning of the word hypocrisy; then look at some of our pop cultural depictions of women—in movies and magazines,
in commercial advertisements, on billboards, bus stop shelters, and the sides of buildings—and then tell me we deplore the sexual objectification of women, and then tell me why we must say we deplore the sexual objectification of women, and then tell me what's wrong with the sexual objectification of women!"
—Angel Trismegistus​
​
 
Angel said:
Look up the meaning of the word hypocrisy; then look at some of our pop cultural depictions of women—in movies and magazines,
in commercial advertisements, on billboards, bus stop shelters, and the sides of buildings—and then tell me we deplore the sexual objectification of women, and then tell me why we must say we deplore the sexual objectification of women, and then tell me what's wrong with the sexual objectification of women
Click to expand...


Hypocrisy, as I've already explained to you is an inconsistency between words and deeds. It is saying/supporting one ideal while breaking it by your actions.

So if a church pastor preaches sexual fidelity but in real life in unfaithful in marriage, he/she is guilty of hypocrisy - as my many examples have shown.


YOU might "deplore" the sexual objectification of women...and if you said this publicly while privately buying magazines that do precisely that, you would be guilty of hypocrisy.

To prove hypocrisy, in this sexual context, you have to show that people who publish the images you so object to, have previously stated an opposition to that.
So have the owners of Penthouse or Playboy magazine stated such an objection ?
 
Rich2018 said:
Utter Hypocrisy:

"Billy Graham’s grandson Tullian Tchividjian has resigned from his pulpit at Coral Ridge Presbyterian, a high-profile church in South Florida, after admitting he had an affair. He released the following statement to The Washington Post:

'I resigned from my position at Coral Ridge Presbyterian Church today due to ongoing marital issues. As many of you know, I returned from a trip a few months back and discovered that my wife was having an affair. Heartbroken and devastated, I informed our church leadership and requested a sabbatical to focus exclusively on my marriage and family. As her affair continued, we separated. Sadly and embarrassingly, I subsequently sought comfort in a friend and developed an inappropriate relationship myself. Last week I was approached by our church leaders and they asked me about my own affair. I admitted to it and it was decided that the best course of action would be for me to resign. Both my wife and I are heartbroken over our actions and we ask you to pray for us and our family that God would give us the grace we need to weather this heart wrenching storm. We are amazingly grateful for the team of men and women who are committed to walking this difficult path with us. Please pray for the healing of deep wounds and we kindly ask that you respect our privacy'...


Tchividjian, 42, has been married to his wife, Kim, since 1994 and they have three children."



https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...ing-an-affair/



Billy Graham not only preached fidelity, he observed a personal rule never to be alone or travel alone with a woman for fear of gossip. Now his OWN grandson who preached the SAME message is caught having an AFFAIR.

Sheer HYPOCRISY from his church - they preach one think and practice the OPPOSITE.


Hypocrisy.
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No, that is not hypocrisy. It is the sin nature of man. He and his wife both ran to the truth, but they are flawed humans like all of us. It's hypocrisy if he hid the truth and preached against the sin that afflicted him. It is hypocrisy if he held himself out as pure, condemning the sin of others while not dealing with his own sin. Granted that it took his church elders to confront him, but he did not deny. He dealt with it. Not hypocrisy, but righteous humility.

Every man that stands up and preaches is a sinner; a terribly flawed human. They are just another member of the church with the same temptations. You really need to understand that or you will think any preacher is a hypocrite. That said, any preacher that fails to understand his own flawed nature is a hypocrite. All have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God.
 
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Actually, it's like dry water. Expecting a man not to sample other "flavors" is like trying to force a left handed person to write with their right hand. It just doesn't work.

upsideguy said:
No, that is not hypocrisy. It is the sin nature of man. He and his wife both ran to the truth, but they are flawed humans like all of us. It's hypocrisy if he hid the truth and preached against the sin that afflicted him. It is hypocrisy if he held himself out as pure, condemning the sin of others while not dealing with his own sin. Not hypocrisy, but righteous humility.
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SDET said:
Actually, it's like dry water. Expecting a man not to sample other "flavors" is like trying to force a left handed person to write with their right hand. It just doesn't work.
Click to expand...

That sounds more like rationalization than what I am trying to say. Adultery is a sin and clearly contrary to God's plan as God says over and over again in his Word.
 
upsideguy said:
No, that is not hypocrisy. It is the sin nature of man. He and his wife both ran to the truth, but they are flawed humans like all of us. It's hypocrisy if he hid the truth and preached against the sin that afflicted him. It is hypocrisy if he held himself out as pure, condemning the sin of others while not dealing with his own sin. Granted that it took his church elders to confront him, but he did not deny. He dealt with it. Not hypocrisy, but righteous humility.

Every man that stands up and preaches is a sinner; a terribly flawed human. They are just another member of the church with the same temptations. You really need to understand that or you will think any preacher is a hypocrite. That said, any preacher that fails to understand his own flawed nature is a hypocrite. All have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God.
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You can prefer to call it sin if you want. But saying one thing (preaching sexual fidelity) and doing another (practicing adultery) is hypocrisy.
 
Rich2018 said:
You can prefer to call it sin if you want. But saying one thing (preaching sexual fidelity) and doing another (practicing adultery) is hypocrisy.
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But you fail to understand the theology here. Call it what you want, but from Christian perspective it is not that at all. To a Christian, its a fellow brother recognizing his brokenness. Its hypocrisy when he doesn't own it.

To a Christian, we all sin. By your logic, any Christian that sins is a hypocrite. That makes everyone a hypocrite. But, the core of judeo-christain theology is to recognize our shortcomings, confess our sins, repent, accept forgiveness and transform. Even if you repeat the sin, God forgives 7x7 (forever, as long as your heart is right). I am sorry that you don't grasp that (not saying that as a slam..... you would have to better understand the theology to grasp it), but its really a very rich way of living. What the pastor did here is not hypocrisy, but a great illustration of Christian living.

That all said, I see why you think its hypocrisy, but you have much to learn about the Christian faith to really understand it.

How to Repent: 5 Steps

That all said, I do find the wholesale acceptance of Donald Trump by evangelical leaders to be a form of hypocrisy because they clearly are stepping out on God's teaching and are not repenting. But, that is another discussion.

14 Bible verses about Correcting A Brother
 
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