Masculinity in Menopause: The Emasculating Effects of Fatherlessness and Feminism

OlNate said:

No. I love you, Bene, but...no ma'am.

Millennials don't "self-start" because the boys are too "pussified". They don't "self-start" because of the hopelessness of the situation left to them by the Boomer generation.

(I mean, if we want to over simplify, we might as well over simplify in the right direction).

Good grief.

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Well we do see boys being treated differently than girls. Boys have a higher likelihood of being diagnosed with ADHD and put on medicines to treat that. Boys are discouraged and sometimes even shamed for engaging in activities associated with boyhood.

That being said you make a good point. I personally am a millennial, I'm one of the oldest millennials but I do interact with my contemporaries. And I see a lot of hopelessness. When I was in my twenties I couldn't afford a apartment. Even if I worked two jobs and I did sometimes even three. I drove a piece of junk and I had to know how to fix it. That was two of the three jobs that I worked. And I think that itself explains a problem.

I worked as a mechanic a highly skilled mechanic for two different companies and I did side work at the same time. I was at the height of what I could make as a mechanic. And it wasn't that much. And the reason why is because they didn't want to pay me for my technical knowledge they wanted to pay me to switch parts. Because that is cheaper then my time repairing a problem. I understand this I'm not complaining. But where I made the most money was on the odd jobs that I took as a freelance mechanic. Someone had a bulldozer that went down in the field they would call me at 10 at night and I'd go out there and have it running for them the next morning. It wasn't repaired properly it wasn't repaired in a way that would last. It was patched together so they could use it for another day. For that sort of work I could name my price. But it wasn't steady. So I had to work in the shops for a fraction of the money.

I got tired of that field the only way I could make money is if I was on call at all hours of the night willing to drive out to god-knows-where be waist-deep in mud sticking a motor grader together with bubblegum. And it might be months before I get another job like that. I could ask for $4,000 for doing it and they would pay because they couldn't find anyone else to do it. But $4,000 every six months does not a steady paycheck make.

So I had to walk away. I had to go do something else. I'm not sure I could never have another job where I could big that much money for one day's work but the job where I can make 60 an hour and get a 50 hour work week is preferable.

These are the career issues I've had to navigate now I don't think I'm alone in this. But I remember talking to baby boomers and even gen-xers and they didn't understand how I could do that kind of work. I didn't have a choice. It was my skill.

Disclaimer i am a woman, not a man, so all of my perspective is clearly limited. However, this is what ive seen.

Im an older millenial. The category of millenial that we didnt even realize we somehow got lumped together with this infamous generation. But i feel that my group has seen alot of change, and connected with 2 generations. I think it gave us a good perspective on the cultural shifts happening in the united states.
This topic is so so hard because there are so many factors, theories, opinions going on that narrowing anything down seems impossible.. and more to my point.. unnecessary.

But i will try

First off... ive always been amused by people who say things like "masculinity is dead", men are turning into ******s, and making fun of certain male fashion trends that they claim is "unnatural, weird, contributing to the extinction of real men". I laugh bc the men making these statements clearly didnt go too far back in time to formulate this opinion. Mens fashion, attitudes, and roles have ebbed and flowed over centuries. Id say men nowadays are boring compared to certain eras of history. My point is that fashion, gender roles, and societal norms constantly change... thereby proving that they are completely unimportant and by no means a pillar of example that humans should adhere to. What a joke all of this is. As lojg as we are evolving in a more loving and accepting direction, how tf can we go wrong

Hand strength. That’s the ****in thing we want to measure. Hand strength.

RAMOSS said:

Before going into the article, which a number of people showed is not worthy here, let's look at the source, to see how far down the rabbit hole of it's claims do we want to go.

From American Thinker - Media Bias/Fact Check



That information shows that using that website is not very well reasoned. Using that source shows a strong lack of judgement.

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According to your "fact checker." Why should anybody trust that? Because they call themselves a fact checker?

CLAX1911 said:

According to your "fact checker." Why should anybody trust that? Because they call themselves a fact checker?

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Why, I find when I got to multiple fact checkers, they tend to agree with each other, unless they are prejudicial against one side or another. This particular one will quite often put conservative sources as 'high' when it comes to facts and will also put liberal sources as 'mixed'.... depending on the source. Since it will put some liberal sources as suspect, and many conservative sources as reliable, it at least does an honest job of evaluation. There are several fact check sites. If it was slanted one way or another...you would expect it to favor either liberal or conservative sources, and it doesn't.


For example, American Thinker Media Bias | AllSides , gives it far right wing, and medium reliability.

RAMOSS said:

Why, I find when I got to multiple fact checkers, they tend to agree with each other, unless they are prejudicial against one side or another.

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so they sometimes agree and they sometimes don't agree based on opinions? That right there makes them sound dubious.

This particular one will quite often put conservative sources as 'high' when it comes to facts and will also put liberal sources as 'mixed'.... depending on the source. Since it will put some liberal sources as suspect, and many conservative sources as reliable, it at least does an honest job of evaluation.

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I'm not so sure about that.

There are several fact check sites. If it was slanted one way or another...you would expect it to favor either liberal or conservative sources, and it doesn't.

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not necessarily. If it was obvious that they are a shill for a particular new source it would be obvious. I'm not using that single reason to trust something as factual with zero evidence.

The appearance of not having political bias does not mean there is no political bias.

For example, American Thinker Media Bias | AllSides , gives it far right wing, and medium reliability.

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Based on what?

CLAX1911 said:

so they sometimes agree and they sometimes don't agree based on opinions? That right there makes them sound dubious.

I'm not so sure about that.

not necessarily. If it was obvious that they are a shill for a particular new source it would be obvious. I'm not using that single reason to trust something as factual with zero evidence.

The appearance of not having political bias does not mean there is no political bias.




Based on what?

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YOu are totally misreading what I said. I suggest you try for better reading comprehension.

Deuce said:

Hand strength. That’s the ****in thing we want to measure. Hand strength.

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Why, yes, Deuce.

Grip strength, also known as hand strength, is an anthropometric measurement that indicates muscle health in the hands and forearms. The measurement is often included in longitudinal studies because it's an indicator of the overall well-being of an adult subject.
Measuring Grip Strength for Health

Research has shown that the weaker your grip, the greater the risk of having a heart attack or stroke. A study carried out in 17 countries that included 139,691 adults between the ages of 35 and 70 found that a five-kilogram (about 11 pounds) decline in grip strength is linked to a 17 percent increased risk of dying from a heart attack or stroke over a four-year period. Grip strength was determined with a hand dynamometer, a device that measures the force used to squeeze two handles together. The researchers suggested that stronger grips signal more muscle mass, which is associated with increased activity and better health.

Why Is Handgrip Strength Important? - Andrew Weil, M.D.

Grip Strength Is Good Indicator of Overall Health - UConn Today

RAMOSS said:

YOu are totally misreading what I said. I suggest you try for better reading comprehension.

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No I'm not you're saying fact checkers are accurate because a b c and d and I'm asking you why.

nota bene said:

Citing studies on declining hand strength, lowered testosterone levels, and increasingly poor performance of boys in schools accompanied by the media “pushing an agenda-driven narrative that masculinity is inherently oppressive,violent, and domineering,” Jordan Black argues that we can learn from our colonial forefathers the inestimable value of a father’s presence to model, discipline, and teach a boy how to become a good man:

…we face a far greater threat at the opposite end of the macho-spectrum. Ironically, America is experiencing an epidemic of young men who fail to launch -- millennials who resist growing up and becoming men. They are abandoning traditional male behavior in favor of metrosexuality -- shoe-shopping, manicures, pedicures, and make-up are becoming the new norm. We are not making men like we used to; in fact, we are not making them at all.

… Unlike the colonials, our society encourages parents to share their child-rearing responsibilities with government institutions and the mass media, which reinforces the unspoken American philosophy that earning a living trumps parenting. However, parents must resist this cultural enticement. Parenting is not a collective endeavor with the government and community organizations. Institutionalized education, the government, and mass media are training boys to be weak, lazy, and effeminate. Parenting is not flying by the seat of your pants, it is discipleship. Rather than allowing our culture to guide and shape our boys, let us take a page from the colonial playbook and reintroduce men to virtuous masculinity.

https://www.americanthinker.com/art...g_effects_of_fatherlessness_and_feminism.html

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While I don't disagree that having a father and some level of discipline when raising child helps...if you study US colonial history....bastardy was not uncommon. A lot of men simply claimed the boy wasn't his. Men died at young ages, especially the farther west one goes; boys quite often lose fathers at a young age and widows had a hard time re-marrying...especially if she has a child from the deceased husband. The only reason that these fatherless boys had to get tough at an early age was because they would die if they didn't.

media “pushing an agenda-driven narrative that masculinity is inherently oppressive,violent, and domineering,”

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What does this refer to though; do you have any examples? I'm assuming it's in response to the usage of the phrase "Toxic Masculinity."

I will say that the phrase "toxic masculinity" is problematic as it implies masculinity is inherently bad but this isn't what it refers to.

From what I've gathered engaging with feminists and others who use the term, Toxic Masculinity is the engrained perception that if a man participates in anything that is considered by society as "feminine" he is behaving improperly and should stop. I can personally attest to this being the case from what i've experienced in my life and others I talk to can as well. Of course everyone has different experiences but I think there's definitely merit to the engrained perception claim. Also, it's harmful to both men and women. There's a facebook post out there I recall that illustrates this pretty well. A father points out how his son after 18 years still lays on his arm. Other men (many of them) comment about how "men don't cuddle with other men" "gay" "this needs to stop" "only women should do this with their kids" etc... Another example is the statement "boys will be boys" when aggression is used to show emotions rather than a more appropriate reaction. Or when a boy is called a "sissy" or "fag" because he displays his emotions.

OlNate said:

No. I love you, Bene, but...no ma'am.

Millennials don't "self-start" because the boys are too "pussified". They don't "self-start" because of the hopelessness of the situation left to them by the Boomer generation.

(I mean, if we want to over simplify, we might as well over simplify in the right direction).

Good grief.

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Uh. That's BS; complete and utter BS. Being a millenial didn't keep me from being able to steer my own life, nor did it stop me from becoming and acting as a man.

If you want to talk about cultural barriers we throw up for that, sure; and I take second fiddle to no one in my general disdain for the Boomer generation, but Millenials aren't helpless "f'ing babes, in capable of doing anything on our own without the Boomers telling us to.