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[W:3596] Arguments Against Same-Sex Marriage

show me that I'm wrong...


The ruling of the Supreme Court.

And that may a documentary or movies states that attitudes and opinions stated within do not necessarily represent those of the producer,

Now show me that a baker making a cake will be thought to share those opinions and attitudes.


...schools belong to the public not to an individual so if there's someone there that hates children they should be fired...


Not saying that an employee hates children...though you seem to think someone can be fired for what they think.

There are many schools that are privately owned - as are most colleges.

A Republican president once mobilized the National Guard to ensure black children could attend school in the face of hatred...who was fired?


...I don't support any bakeries that have any prejudices whatsoever....

I don't support anyone or any institution that openly supports prejudice.


...so there's an inequality and business...

Yes and its not illegal

Neither a rich man getting better education, healthcare or legal representation


...most profitable is mutually exclusive to most equitable....

So speaks the socialist


Sadly your equality principles are in a minority in the United States


...requiring them to meet safety standards that's to do with safety...

Is anyone disagreeing ?


...I sure hope you've got more to back up your claim then just insistence otherwise....

Open up a bar with a sign outside saying whites only and see how far you get

Yes a bar can refuse to serve and individual but not a racial group


...no they don't. If you don't abide by health and safety for example you're not going to get arrested...

Yes they do
If you don't abide by health and safety for example you're not going to get arrested.


...there's already laws against putting those thoughts into practice some of them date back to long before this country ever existed.

Oh really can you name one?

We seem to differ on whether an individual has the right to put certain thoughts into practice.
 
The majority of people have sex before they are married.

Then what is the point of denying consanguineous couples legal marriage?

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Sexual orientation and gender identity are not currently protected classes.

There have been several cases where it was decided that since orientation and identity stem from sex/gender, they are part of that protected class.

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...sex/gender, race, color, creed/religion, and disability are already protected classes. Sexual orientation and gender identity are not currently protected classes...

The Supreme Court would disagree.
 
The ruling of the Supreme Court.
name the case or cases.

Now show me that a baker making a cake will be thought to share those opinions and attitudes.
So if I ordered a wedding cake from a Muslim bakery and I wanted it to say "Jesus Christ is God" the Muslim Baker would be forced to make that for me despite the fact that it's a blasphemy in his religion?





Not saying that an employee hates children...though you seem to think someone can be fired for what they think.

There are many schools that are privately owned - as are most colleges.
Such private institutions are allowed to discriminate on the basis of sex, age, and religion. I worked security at a Catholic girls school for a few months. They are clearly exempt.

A Republican president once mobilized the National Guard to ensure black children could attend school in the face of hatred...who was fired?
not sure why you are asking this.




I don't support anyone or any institution that openly supports prejudice.
I don't get the reasoning behind this statement. You asked if I would support something assuming I support anything.




Yes and its not illegal
not sure why you are stating this.

Neither a rich man getting better education, healthcare or legal representation
Sure.




So speaks the socialist
Seems my position is a capitalist one. No care given to equity.


Sadly your equality principles are in a minority in the United States
so what?




Is anyone disagreeing ?
I'm not sure why you are harping on health and safety to be honest.




Open up a bar with a sign outside saying whites only and see how far you get
That has nothing to do with my statement.

Yes a bar can refuse to serve and individual but not a racial group
I don't recall saying they could refuse to serve a racial group.




Yes they do.
Show me the enlistment obligations I would have if I opened a tire change shop please.



Oh really can you name one?
Murder, assault, theft, kidnapping, robbery. It's all illegal even if you think the person you are doing it to is inferior regardless of what it's based on.

We seem to differ on whether an individual has the right to put certain thoughts into practice.
You are permitted to think all Asians should die, but the second you act your life is in jeopardy.
 
It is still not equal service in a public business. .

Yeah its discrimination against those seeking a same sex wedding cake regardless of their sexual orientations. It is just presumed that it is motivated by animus towards homosexuals. Much like the desire to improve the wellbeing of children that only opposite sex couples produce is presumed to be motivated by animus towards homosexuals.
 
Sex/gender, race, color, creed/religion, and disability are already protected classes. .

Such strong opinions regarding matters you know nothing about.

SEC. 201. (a) All persons shall be entitled to the full and equal enjoyment of the goods, services, facilities, and privileges, advantages, and accommodations of any place of public accommodation, as defined in this section, without discrimination or segregation on the ground of race, color, religion, or national origin.
 
No not at all I'm trying to argue that private businesses can and do serve the public.

No it's not. It's defined as one which is operated by the government or is publicly traded, in the stock market.

No it isn't. It is a business held by a small number of investors, a sole proprietorship, it a business that isn't held by the government or publicly traded.

I don't think there is a public accommodation law that requires Baker's to make something for anybody no matter what.



Again the bakery didn't say it wouldn't serve gay people just that they wouldn't make a specific thing for a specific ceremony.

That is within their rights. Public accommodation law no matter what incarnation doesn't apply.

(b) Each of the following establishments which serves the public is a place of public accommodation within the meaning of this title if its operations affect commerce, or if discrimination or segregation by it is supported by State action:

(1) any inn, hotel, motel, or other establishment which provides lodging to transient guests, other than an establishment located within a building which contains not more than five rooms for rent or hire and which is actually occupied by the proprietor of such establishment as his residence;

(2) any restaurant, cafeteria, lunchroom, lunch counter, soda fountain, or other facility principally engaged in selling food for consumption on the premises, including, but not limited to, any such facility located on the

premises of any retail establishment; or any gasoline station;

(3) any motion picture house, theater, concert hall, sports arena, stadium or other place of exhibition or entertainment; and

(4) any establishment (A)(i) which is physically located within the premises of any establishment otherwise covered by this subsection, or (ii) within the premises of which is physically located any such covered establishment, and (B) which holds itself out as serving patrons of such covered establishment.

(c) The operations of an establishment affect commerce within the meaning of this title if (1) it is one of the establishments described in paragraph (1) of subsection (b); (2) in the case of an establishment described in paragraph (2) of subsection (b), it serves or offers to serve interstate travelers or a substantial portion of the food which it serves, or gasoline or other products which it sells, has moved in commerce; (3) in the case of an establishment described in paragraph (3) of subsection (b), it customarily presents films, performances, athletic teams, exhibitions, or other sources of entertainment which move in commerce; and (4) in the case of an establishment described in paragraph (4) of subsection (b), it is physically located within the premises of, or there is physically located within its premises, an establishment the operations of which affect commerce within the meaning of this subsection. For purposes of this section, "commerce" means travel, trade, traffic, commerce, transportation, or communication among the several States, or between the District of Columbia and any State, or between any foreign country or any territory or possession and any State or the District of Columbia, or between points in the same State but through any other State or the District of Columbia or a foreign country.
 
(b) Each of the following establishments which serves the public is a place of public accommodation within the meaning of this title if its operations affect commerce, or if discrimination or segregation by it is supported by State action:

(1) any inn, hotel, motel, or other establishment which provides lodging to transient guests, other than an establishment located within a building which contains not more than five rooms for rent or hire and which is actually occupied by the proprietor of such establishment as his residence;

(2) any restaurant, cafeteria, lunchroom, lunch counter, soda fountain, or other facility principally engaged in selling food for consumption on the premises, including, but not limited to, any such facility located on the

premises of any retail establishment; or any gasoline station;

(3) any motion picture house, theater, concert hall, sports arena, stadium or other place of exhibition or entertainment; and

(4) any establishment (A)(i) which is physically located within the premises of any establishment otherwise covered by this subsection, or (ii) within the premises of which is physically located any such covered establishment, and (B) which holds itself out as serving patrons of such covered establishment.

(c) The operations of an establishment affect commerce within the meaning of this title if (1) it is one of the establishments described in paragraph (1) of subsection (b); (2) in the case of an establishment described in paragraph (2) of subsection (b), it serves or offers to serve interstate travelers or a substantial portion of the food which it serves, or gasoline or other products which it sells, has moved in commerce; (3) in the case of an establishment described in paragraph (3) of subsection (b), it customarily presents films, performances, athletic teams, exhibitions, or other sources of entertainment which move in commerce; and (4) in the case of an establishment described in paragraph (4) of subsection (b), it is physically located within the premises of, or there is physically located within its premises, an establishment the operations of which affect commerce within the meaning of this subsection. For purposes of this section, "commerce" means travel, trade, traffic, commerce, transportation, or communication among the several States, or between the District of Columbia and any State, or between any foreign country or any territory or possession and any State or the District of Columbia, or between points in the same State but through any other State or the District of Columbia or a foreign country.

Tl;dr
 
So is it your contention that the difference between men and women is no different than the difference between a same sex couple and a couple that is closely related?

He wont make an actual argument all he does is make non sequitur claims that he cant marry his sister and that somehow its related to SSM
Then when you try to figure out what sort of nonsense he is trying to get at he falsely claims you are making a strawman.
He has not and will not ever make an actual argument that would leave him open to be shown in logical error.
 
name the case or cases.

Fred

...so if I ordered a wedding cake from a Muslim bakery and I wanted it to say "Jesus Christ is God" the Muslim Baker would be forced to make that for me ...

Yes


...such private institutions are allowed to discriminate on the basis of sex, age, and religion. I worked security at a Catholic girls school for a few months. They are clearly exempt...


A private institution might be exempt - there are private clubs that are members only. There are boys and girls schools. Tell me one school that is whites only.

Pubic schools are not allowed to discriminate on sex or religion - I would imagine they would be allowed to discriminate on age.

...not sure why you are asking this...

Asking what?


...I don't get the reasoning behind this statement....


Clearly


...not sure why you are stating this....

Stating what?


...seems my position is a capitalist one...

How and in what way?

...so what?

So you're wrong.


...I'm not sure why you are harping on health and safety to be honest....

???


YOU brought health and safety up.


...that has nothing to do with my statement...

Ty it and discover its relevance with regard to the law.



...I don't recall saying they could refuse to serve a racial group....

Yes you did

You said an owner can refuse to serve anyone - that would include membership of any ethnic group.


...show me the enlistment obligations I would have if I opened a tire change shop please....


The bit about obeying the law.

..murder, assault, theft, kidnapping, robbery. It's all illegal even if you think the person you are doing it to is inferior regardless of what it's based on...

You miss the point entirely

Some things are illegal.

What you think is legal (discrimination on ethnic grounds) is not.


....you are permitted to think all Asians should die, but the second you act your life is in jeopardy.


I couldn't care less what you think in this regard

Only the Bible makes thought crime illegal AFAIK.
 
Looks like this thread is dead
254 pages and not one argument against SSM. I suppose we can conclude there are none
 
Looks like this thread is dead
254 pages and not one argument against SSM. I suppose we can conclude there are none

I have yet to see one argument against marriage equality that wasn't based on conservative religious belief, which is prohibited by the 1st Anmdnement's Establishment clause that creates a wall of separation between the church and state.
 
I have yet to see one argument against marriage equality that wasn't based on conservative religious belief, which is prohibited by the 1st Anmdnement's Establishment clause that creates a wall of separation between the church and state.

You may not have, but I have seen atheists argue against SSM purely on the basis of biology and to some extent sociology, citing the nuclear family as best for kids. Not all arguments against SSM are based in religion. They are just as wrong, but we have to be honest in that religion is not the only reasons given.
 
You may not have, but I have seen atheists argue against SSM purely on the basis of biology and to some extent sociology, citing the nuclear family as best for kids. Not all arguments against SSM are based in religion. They are just as wrong, but we have to be honest in that religion is not the only reasons given.

Religion isnt the only basis but it defenitely appears to be the main one people are against SSM.
Doenst change the fact that after 255 pages we still havnet seen any actual argument against SSM
 
You may not have, but I have seen atheists argue against SSM purely on the basis of biology and to some extent sociology, citing the nuclear family as best for kids. Not all arguments against SSM are based on religion. They are just as wrong, but we have to be honest in that religion is not the only reasons given.

Marriage equality has no effect on heterosexual families. It also doesn't affect children.

How does biology have anything to do with marriage equality when people didn't choose to be LGBT?
 
Marriage equality has no effect on heterosexual families. It also doesn't affect children.

How does biology have anything to do with marriage equality when people didn't choose to be LGBT?

Did you note the part where I said they are no less wrong on their assumptions? I am only pointing out that religion is not the only basis by which SSM is argued against.

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With the recent news from Brunei about imposing the death penalty on gays and adulterers, I've been wondering just what is the justification fo opposing gay marriage. Why do some people really hate homosexuals, whether male or female?

Here's a list of arguments against same sex marriage that I found on the internets:
  1. It requires a new definition of marriage
  2. Not the same as laws that prohibited mixed race marriages
  3. Marriage is meant to increase population
  4. Infringes upon some peoples' religion freedom
  5. Rights are granted by God and He doesn't like gay marriage
  6. Morality comes from God and He doesn't like the gays
  7. Acceptance of gay marriage will lead to incest and paedophilia
  8. Homosexuals are unhealthy – that whole AIDS thing, you know.
  9. Allowing gay marriage will cause societal collapse, as other immoral behaviour becomes more accepted.

You know people were asking the wrong question, is shouldn't have been should we allow gays to marry. The question should have been why is the government in the marriage business at all? Really with a few minor changes to paperwork, the government would be out of it all together. SSN, medical directives, ETC could be handled with a few basic forms, where you designate a person for those functions. Easy, then you can choose to get married in a church or not.
 
Arguments Against Same-Sex Marriage
Whatever arguments there are against marriage itself must apply to same-sex marriage, one would suppose.
Are there arguments against marriage itself?
Divorce rates being what they are, I would be surprised if there weren't cogent arguments against marriage itself.
 
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