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Thread: Gay penguins raise chick

  1. #11
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    Re: Gay penguins raise chick

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Person View Post
    SYDNEY, Australia — It was a young penguin colony, and all but one of the couples were pretty bad parents. They would get distracted from their nests, go for a swim or play, and so neglected eggs were getting cold, likely never to hatch. This was normal for inexperienced penguins, and the aquarium managers didn’t worry. Next mating season would be better. One couple, though, was extraordinary. Not because they were the colony’s only gay penguins, though they were, but because Sphen and Magic looked like they would make great, diligent, careful egg-warming parents. They made the biggest nest, and they sat on it constantly.

    Curious, the aquarium managers gave the two males a dummy egg. They took to it. And so then, when a particularly negligent heterosexual penguin couple looked to be leaving an egg exposed (females lay two, but usually only one survives), the aquarium workers figured they would give it to Sphen and Magic. In October, that egg hatched. Now the chick of a gay penguin union is waddling around an ice enclosure by the touristy docks in Sydney.




    [cont.]

    https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/15/s...australia.html

    We've got also a pair of gay swans in Boston Common's main pond, at least during the warmer months. (Or did. It's been a while since they were last written about, or at least, since I noticed it and I don't know how long swans live). If you don't want to use it for debate, well, it's an interesting enough story.



    If you do, well.....

    I do hope nobody intends to tell me that these penguins and/or swans are going to be sent to hell by a God because of making a "choice" that this God disapproves of.
    I dont believe this is unprecedented. The same behavior has been observed in the wild. Odd, there fellow penguins do not seem to care, perhaps we have something to learn from this species.
    And when you’re a star, they let you do it. You can do anything. Grab them by the p**sy. You can do anything." –Donald Trump

  2. #12
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    Re: Gay penguins raise chick

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Person View Post

    I do hope nobody intends to tell me that these penguins and/or swans are going to be sent to hell by a God because of making a "choice" that this God disapproves of.
    Since you have this... Animals can't sin because sinning is a purposeful turning away from God's plan since animals can't know what he wants they cannot sin and can't go to hell.
    "I propose a limitation be put on how many squares of toilet paper can be used in any one sitting."~Sheryl Crow

  3. #13
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    Re: Gay penguins raise chick

    My problem with the argument that gays can be parents is that it assumes and relies on the premise that heterosexual couples shouldn't/won't be parents of their rightful offspring. This a terrible assumption to start with.

    If course there will always be neglected or parentless children but if your marriage or parenting agenda relies on the failures of other parents, we've hit a problem somewhere.

    The simple answer fact here is nature did not intend for homosexuality to be passed on, encouraged, or used as a model for parenting, and that's obvious through our biological and evolutionary reproductive system. Of course we can challenge nature but when it's an issue of children, our future, we tread on very dangerous grounds.

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    Re: Gay penguins raise chick

    Quote Originally Posted by Crusader13 View Post
    My problem with the argument that gays can be parents is that it assumes and relies on the premise that heterosexual couples shouldn't/won't be parents of their rightful offspring. This a terrible assumption to start with.

    If course there will always be neglected or parentless children but if your marriage or parenting agenda relies on the failures of other parents, we've hit a problem somewhere.

    The simple answer fact here is nature did not intend for homosexuality to be passed on, encouraged, or used as a model for parenting, and that's obvious through our biological and evolutionary reproductive system. Of course we can challenge nature but when it's an issue of children, our future, we tread on very dangerous grounds.
    No, it's not a terrible assumption to start with, as it's proven time and time again that parents are going to be bad parents. There's no stopping it, it's how life is. So starting with that assumption is not terrible, it's truth. Sorry if you don't like the truth. So instead of focusing on how we're saying these parents are bad, why don't you instead focus on those kids that need attention. That's where your head should be, concerned about these kids from homes where the parents are meth addicts or extremely neglectful and potentially even dangerous.

    If your only argument on why it's bad is "nature", we already have hypotheses for that - it's called the Gay Uncle theory. Look it up. We can and do challenge nature constantly to make our lives better and easier. Your argument has no basis in reality.

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    Re: Gay penguins raise chick

    Quote Originally Posted by CannonballB View Post
    No, it's not a terrible assumption to start with, as it's proven time and time again that parents are going to be bad parents.
    So wouldn't it be worthwhile looking into how we can change this, however difficult?

    Answer me this; ideally, would you agree that a child should (best case scenario) be raised by their biological parents?

    Of course there are ****ty abusive parents. My idea is that working on reducing the number of ****ty parents would not only reduce the number of meth addicts (for example), but also produce a much bigger benefit to children. Gays can be good parents. Heteros would be better.

    So instead of focusing on how we're saying these parents are bad, why don't you instead focus on those kids that need attention.
    The best thing we could ever do for children is to help their biological parents be healthy, happy, and fit to raise them. Nothing could even come remotely close to that.

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    Re: Gay penguins raise chick

    Quote Originally Posted by Crusader13 View Post
    So wouldn't it be worthwhile looking into how we can change this, however difficult?

    Answer me this; ideally, would you agree that a child should (best case scenario) be raised by their biological parents?

    Of course there are ****ty abusive parents. My idea is that working on reducing the number of ****ty parents would not only reduce the number of meth addicts (for example), but also produce a much bigger benefit to children. Gays can be good parents. Heteros would be better.



    The best thing we could ever do for children is to help their biological parents be healthy, happy, and fit to raise them. Nothing could even come remotely close to that.
    No. My mother should have never had children. I was lucky, my grandma was the mother my mom couldn't be. Most kids in my position are not so lucky. My brother wasn't. Instead he had to live with my extremely dysfunctional mother and step-father and watch them fight most days, even see my step-dad beat my mom. We also got to deal with an NPD mother who doesn't know what her children need, or even what it means to be a mom (which she readily admits).

    So no, I think that statement is ignorant of the real world and it's inhabitants.

    RE: gays good parents, straight better, show me the research stating that and I'll believe you. Any research that's been done has not only disagreed with your statement but actually stated the opposite - that sometimes gay couples are BETTER than straight couples at parenting. With gay couples, at least the kid knows their wanted. You can't say that for all children of straight couples. Some examples from Cornell

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    Re: Gay penguins raise chick

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    Chimpanzees and chickens are cannibals.
    As are some humans. Every single action we see in animals we can find an example of humans doing it, because humans are animals.

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    Re: Gay penguins raise chick

    Quote Originally Posted by CannonballB View Post
    No. My mother should have never had children...

    So no, I think that statement is ignorant of the real world and it's inhabitants.
    You misunderstood or dodged the question. I said in an ideal scenario, if we could make it possible, do you agree that a child should be raised by their biological parents?

    To use your specific example, don't you wish that your mother wasn't abusive and neglectful, and that she was instead helped and supported to raise you caringly? Don't you wish your original mother was as loving as your grandma was?

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    Re: Gay penguins raise chick

    Quote Originally Posted by Crusader13 View Post
    You misunderstood or dodged the question. I said in an ideal scenario, if we could make it possible, do you agree that a child should be raised by their biological parents?

    To use your specific example, don't you wish that your mother wasn't abusive and neglectful, and that she was instead helped and supported to raise you caringly? Don't you wish your original mother was as loving as your grandma was?
    If my mother wasn't a mentally damaged, ****ed up human being, would that be ideal? Of course. I dont think anyone can dispute that. However, there is no help for my mother. That's the point i'm making. Yes, pie in the sky, people need to be helped to become good parents. But that's pie in the sky and I have to work with what I have today, not some ideal future state.

    If we can move towards making sure that people with personality disorders (like my mother) don't have children who grow up to be just as ****ed up as them, then sure. I'm down. But until that miraculous day comes, still gotta make due with what I got. And what I got right now is a bunch of children who have no one to love them. So going to a gay family is a ****ton better than being mentally, physically, sexually or otherwise abused in some fashion. Live in the real world please, not some amazing future state.

    Also, to dispute your original point, and I already have, gays can be just as good of parents, if not better, than straight people. That's the facts as they stand today. If someday, per your pie in the sky ideals, we did not have mentally unfit people raising children, then yes, the gays would need to find surrogate parents or artificial insemination.

    One last thing, we talk about how it's best if biological parents raise their kids. I'm going to devils advocate that - do children who don't know their adopted not bond to their adoptive parents the way a child would to their birth parent? Are there any studies done on this? I question to what extent that the "biological parent" argument is really valid.

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    Re: Gay penguins raise chick

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Person View Post
    SYDNEY, Australia — It was a young penguin colony, and all but one of the couples were pretty bad parents. They would get distracted from their nests, go for a swim or play, and so neglected eggs were getting cold, likely never to hatch. This was normal for inexperienced penguins, and the aquarium managers didn’t worry. Next mating season would be better. One couple, though, was extraordinary. Not because they were the colony’s only gay penguins, though they were, but because Sphen and Magic looked like they would make great, diligent, careful egg-warming parents. They made the biggest nest, and they sat on it constantly.

    Curious, the aquarium managers gave the two males a dummy egg. They took to it. And so then, when a particularly negligent heterosexual penguin couple looked to be leaving an egg exposed (females lay two, but usually only one survives), the aquarium workers figured they would give it to Sphen and Magic. In October, that egg hatched. Now the chick of a gay penguin union is waddling around an ice enclosure by the touristy docks in Sydney.


    [cont.]

    The Gay Penguins of Australia - The New York Times

    We've got also a pair of gay swans in Boston Common's main pond, at least during the warmer months. (Or did. It's been a while since they were last written about, or at least, since I noticed it and I don't know how long swans live). If you don't want to use it for debate, well, it's an interesting enough story.
    If you do, well.....

    I do hope nobody intends to tell me that these penguins and/or swans are going to be sent to hell by a God because of making a "choice" that this God disapproves of.

    It isn't their "choice"; it's the animal's instinct to reproduce.

    If not enough females are around, males will "mate" with other males ... and vice versa.
    If you have first-time parents in the animal kingdom, chances are high that things will go wrong with the upbringing of their first batch.

    I can't count the nights I've spent with "first-time" cows and nannies. And even after the delivery, some mothers refused to care for their babies, hence our milk bottles ranging from 8 oz to 3 quarts.

    Animals have a "build-in" reproduction instinct. They don't know whether they are male or female, all they know is that at certain times they have to give it their "best shot" to make things happen ... because that's how nature "programmed" them.

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