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Teenage Prostitution

One of the code words for pay to play was "flowers," now Mickey D's. Most likely it is the pimps placing the adds, not the working girls. I sincerely doubt working girls are giving away the merchandise for hamburgers.

How many of those "teen" girls are 30 something meth addicts with no teeth and fake photos? Quoting a not very humorous comedian, "the good thing about meth, it keeps the prices for BJs down."

Take away one venue, the industry will find others. Despite the cheap votes gathering by flailing local politicians claiming moral territory for votes, the industry won't go aways and the politicians never address the real causes, drugs, poverty, our fostering system, abuse at home with anything other than talk during campaigns. Attend a political convention and there are more working girls than politicians. Elliot Spitzer, a case in point, prosecuted them, then used their services with his black socks on.

Is there a difference between a wealthy old man who keeps a mistress on the side, with a working stiff who picks up a street walker once a month for a quickie?
 
OldFatGuy said:
One of the code words for pay to play was "flowers," now Mickey D's. Most likely it is the pimps placing the adds, not the working girls. I sincerely doubt working girls are giving away the merchandise for hamburgers.

How many of those "teen" girls are 30 something meth addicts with no teeth and fake photos? Quoting a not very humorous comedian, "the good thing about meth, it keeps the prices for BJs down."

Take away one venue, the industry will find others. Despite the cheap votes gathering by flailing local politicians claiming moral territory for votes, the industry won't go aways and the politicians never address the real causes, drugs, poverty, our fostering system, abuse at home with anything other than talk during campaigns. Attend a political convention and there are more working girls than politicians. Elliot Spitzer, a case in point, prosecuted them, then used their services with his black socks on.

Is there a difference between a wealthy old man who keeps a mistress on the side, with a working stiff who picks up a street walker once a month for a quickie?
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Yep, and a rather important one - the mistress on the side generally enjoys a "living wage".
 
OldFatGuy said:
Is there a difference between a wealthy old man who keeps a mistress on the side, with a working stiff who picks up a street walker once a month for a quickie?
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The working stiff is more likely to get his money's worth.
 
ttwtt78640 said:
Yep, and a rather important one - the mistress on the side generally enjoys a "living wage".
Click to expand...

For awhile, until discarded.

Sophie Cohen started turning tricks at age 13 in the Broadway cribs of New York Harbor when she was 13, shortly after her arrival from eastern Europe during the early 1890's for a quarter a poke. The going rate was a dime, thus the phrase a "dime girl." By the 1920's she was one of the leading madams of NYC, working with the likes of Meyer Lansky and Lucky Luciano. Ben Siegel (aka Bugsy) engaged her to run the show girls of Las Vegas when he developed his casino interests in that desert stop for GI's. When she passed during the early 1970's she was believed to be the wealthiest woman in the US, with interests in Hollywood, IBM, At&T, ITT, TI, real estate holdings of consequence with Bob Hope, David Wynn, Joe Kennedy, the Rockefeller Family, and so on. She mothered 8 children who all went on as bankers, lawyers, doctors, CEO's and other professionals. She was never arrested, imprisoned, and infamous among those who lived the life. It was said she had the photos of J. Edgar in action that kept him in a paranoid fear of mentioning the Mafia. In the business world she used a variety of names, but she was known by all for whom she arranged entertainment at her lavish ranch in the Colorado Rockies. She was known for controlling hundreds of politicians with the dirt she has accumulated over the decades.

She may have been an exception, but one must wonder how many other working girls moved inter higher brackets. There used to be a saying among police, "former working girls made the best wives." Respectability is just a $ away. If only we could speak to many of the church going matrons of the old west. :)

People do what they must to survive. Some die en route, if not physically, then spiritually. Others survive.

On the other hand, the Jewish holiday Purim celebrates the successful assassination of a king by a courtesan who freed her people from an oppressor.

Our nation was built on booze and prostitution. Let's stop the hypocrisy.
 
OldFatGuy said:
For awhile, until discarded.

Sophie Cohen started turning tricks at age 13 in the Broadway cribs of New York Harbor when she was 13, shortly after her arrival from eastern Europe during the early 1890's for a quarter a poke. The going rate was a dime, thus the phrase a "dime girl." By the 1920's she was one of the leading madams of NYC, working with the likes of Meyer Lansky and Lucky Luciano. Ben Siegel (aka Bugsy) engaged her to run the show girls of Las Vegas when he developed his casino interests in that desert stop for GI's. When she passed during the early 1970's she was believed to be the wealthiest woman in the US, with interests in Hollywood, IBM, At&T, ITT, TI, real estate holdings of consequence with Bob Hope, David Wynn, Joe Kennedy, the Rockefeller Family, and so on. She mothered 8 children who all went on as bankers, lawyers, doctors, CEO's and other professionals. She was never arrested, imprisoned, and infamous among those who lived the life. It was said she had the photos of J. Edgar in action that kept him in a paranoid fear of mentioning the Mafia. In the business world she used a variety of names, but she was known by all for whom she arranged entertainment at her lavish ranch in the Colorado Rockies. She was known for controlling hundreds of politicians with the dirt she has accumulated over the decades.

She may have been an exception, but one must wonder how many other working girls moved inter higher brackets. There used to be a saying among police, "former working girls made the best wives." Respectability is just a $ away. If only we could speak to many of the church going matrons of the old west. :)

People do what they must to survive. Some die en route, if not physically, then spiritually. Others survive.

On the other hand, the Jewish holiday Purim celebrates the successful assassination of a king by a courtesan who freed her people from an oppressor.

Our nation was built on booze and prostitution. Let's stop the hypocrisy.
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The mistress to the rich dude at least has a chance to develop a retirement plan and not to simply support a pimp and/or dope dealer until she is tossed or ODs. Few '"street walkers" advance as your exception to the rule example illustrates. If your respectability can be bought then at least demand a decent price.
 
ttwtt78640 said:
The mistress to the rich dude at least has a chance to develop a retirement plan and not to simply support a pimp and/or dope dealer until she is tossed or ODs. Few '"street walkers" advance as your exception to the rule example illustrates. If your respectability can be bought then at least demand a decent price.
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The same working girls who are found in the best brothels, the best call girl services, also will work the streets when needs demand. Women who become mistresses are rarely thinking beyond the now, and not about retirement plans. Pimps have been known to set up retirement plans, health services, child care services and so on for their stables. Makes one wonder, doesn't it.

Let's get past the fantasy, no better than that of Julia Roberts finding Richard Gere, real life for working girls is not something we suppose, ever. It differs little for each, and much for all. It is a sordid life for those involved and there is no single explanation or excuse. Our society condemns prostitution, but without customers it wouldn't exist. All the experts here, including myself, don't have any answers for the problems we see as problems, yet they are solutions for those who follow that path.

Our society can put a stop to the hypocrisy. Bring it out of the shadows, make it lawful. Then maybe, with proper safeguards, whatever that may mean, we can better protect working girls, prevent underage prostitution, introduce better health controls and so on, maybe. Prostitution is not going away because some district attorneys from California and other politicians went after the low hanging fruit of Backpage and Craig's List. All they really accomplished is to make for more girls on the street, more dangers for the girls, took a tool away from police seeking runaways and pedophiles, and nothing more. In the meantime they have attacked constitutional limitations of government on free speech. Another matter to consider.
 
OldFatGuy said:
The same working girls who are found in the best brothels, the best call girl services, also will work the streets when needs demand. Women who become mistresses are rarely thinking beyond the now, and not about retirement plans. Pimps have been known to set up retirement plans, health services, child care services and so on for their stables. Makes one wonder, doesn't it.

Let's get past the fantasy, no better than that of Julia Roberts finding Richard Gere, real life for working girls is not something we suppose, ever. It differs little for each, and much for all. It is a sordid life for those involved and there is no single explanation or excuse. Our society condemns prostitution, but without customers it wouldn't exist. All the experts here, including myself, don't have any answers for the problems we see as problems, yet they are solutions for those who follow that path.

Our society can put a stop to the hypocrisy. Bring it out of the shadows, make it lawful. Then maybe, with proper safeguards, whatever that may mean, we can better protect working girls, prevent underage prostitution, introduce better health controls and so on, maybe. Prostitution is not going away because some district attorneys from California and other politicians went after the low hanging fruit of Backpage and Craig's List. All they really accomplished is to make for more girls on the street, more dangers for the girls, took a tool away from police seeking runaways and pedophiles, and nothing more. In the meantime they have attacked constitutional limitations of government on free speech. Another matter to consider.
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You will get no argument for me on that point. Prohibition enforcement efforts mainly address supply yet have little effect on demand. This is why the "war on drugs" is such a dismal failure and why alcohol prohibition, despite the obvious downsides of drinking alcohol to excess, made the situation even worse.
 
ttwtt78640 said:
You will get no argument for me on that point. Prohibition enforcement efforts mainly address supply yet have little effect on demand. This is why the "war on drugs" is such a dismal failure and why alcohol prohibition, despite the obvious downsides of drinking alcohol to excess, made the situation even worse.
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We are in agreement. If only we can convince the false moralists and politicians to seek better paths, better solutions that effect our daily lives while forsaking the politics of fear and needless confrontations.
 
OldFatGuy said:
We are in agreement. If only we can convince the false moralists and politicians to seek better paths, better solutions that effect our daily lives while forsaking the politics of fear and needless confrontations.
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They are forever in search of new things to tax so there is hope. ;)
 
NoParty said:
Unintended consequences:

Federal government shuts down and bans Backpage and all internet sites pertaining to prostitution.
Prostitutes invade social media and dating sites advertising for Johns. Feds asleep at the wheel.
Teenage females watch and learn, quickly.
Six months later, millions of female teenagers on social media and dating sites are selling nudes and sex for the price of a hamburger through cashapp. I’ve seen several “bring me McDonalds for oral” posts, smh.

Huge win for the Johns of the world, huge loss for parents and society. If you have a teenage daughter I would suggest you start your investigation today...
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Did she want anything specific from Mc.Donnalds or can I just choose a combo at random?
 
OldFatGuy said:
Our society can put a stop to the hypocrisy. Bring it out of the shadows, make it lawful. Then maybe, with proper safeguards, whatever that may mean, we can better protect working girls, prevent underage prostitution, introduce better health controls and so on, maybe. Prostitution is not going away because some district attorneys from California and other politicians went after the low hanging fruit of Backpage and Craig's List. All they really accomplished is to make for more girls on the street, more dangers for the girls, took a tool away from police seeking runaways and pedophiles, and nothing more. In the meantime they have attacked constitutional limitations of government on free speech. Another matter to consider.
Click to expand...

I agree with you in part, OldFatGuy. I believe part of the reason prostitution is so dangerous for so many young women is because the ones who supply the sex and sell their bodies are the ones who are generally the ones who are punished. The demand created by men who believe themselves entitled to purchase women's affections, meanwhile, remains largely unaffected.

But here is the problem with the so-called "Legalize it, regulate it, tax it" route. As sangha has pointed out in another thread, in practically every country where prostitution has been legalized, illegal sex-trafficking has increased, rather than decreased.

That is why I believe that if we are to lower the rates of prostitution and all the ancillary crimes and social ills commonly associated with it, it makes no sense whatsoever to punish women who engage in prostitution, any more than it makes sense to imprison the children who are forced into child pornography production. Rather, what needs to be done is to punish the men who exploit and often victimize women (or help create the conditions in which other women can be exploited or victimized). Which is why I believe the best route for the United States would be if the states legalized the selling of sex, but criminalized the purchase of sex, as Sweden has done with great success in reducing prostitution.
 
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Felis Leo said:
I agree with you in part, OldFatGuy. I believe part of the reason prostitution is so dangerous for so many young women is because the ones who supply the sex and sell their bodies are the ones who are generally the ones who are punished. The demand created by men who believe themselves entitled to purchase women's affections, meanwhile, remains largely unaffected.

But here is the problem with the so-called "Legalize it, regulate it, tax it" route. As sangha has pointed out in another thread, in practically every country where prostitution has been legalized, illegal sex-trafficking has increased, rather than decreased.

That is why I believe that if we are to lower the rates of prostitution and all the ancillary crimes and social ills commonly associated with it, it makes no sense whatsoever to punish women who engage in prostitution, any more than it makes sense to imprison the children who are forced into child pornography production. Rather, what needs to be done is to punish the men who exploit and often victimize women (or help create the conditions in which other women can be exploited or victimized). Which is why I believe the best route for the United States would be if the states legalized the selling of sex, but criminalized the purchase of sex, as Sweden has done with great success in reducing prostitution.
Click to expand...

You are offering another alternative worth examination.

I've read about the results of lawful prostitution in Sweden and the Netherlands, as well as Germany, a few other places and the results are similar. A surge of illicit action because of elimination of all actions other than fines against traffickers. I believe a significant result can be obtained with both strict licensing and harsh penalties for those who function as pimps, as well as enforcement of slavery statutes.

When I speak of taxes and prostitution, the vice tax, I'm commenting on the politicians who believe avarice makes all vices acceptable if the government is the beneficiary of the largess. I am mocking the false morality and hypocrisy. Prostitution is not a victimless crime. In most states solicitation of prostitution is already unlawful. Out courts consider the crime low end and aren't interested in prosecuting in courts already with overwhelming calendars. It would become no different than traffic courts, crowded and fines issued and collected. Not much of a deterrent in a practical sense. Certainly, discouraging the buyers makes sense, but execution is another matter.

Strict laws with enforcement can control traffickers, and defining the limitations of those in the business with harsh sentencing, prison plus fines could make the difference. Little was done in Sweden or the Netherlands to control traffickers with new laws and enforcement. The focus of change was not well thought out planned.

All we will see with continued criminalization is deeper shadows. The problems will persist. No matter what system is devised, there will always be those who play it. They are the target, not the workers or the customers. They will continue, consider the "punishment" as part of the risk. Common sense tells stds should be enough to discourage the customers, a fine won't make much difference. The Mattress Police will become a reality and a standing joke.

Criminalization and punishment hasn't worked in any form. As long as prostitution is illicit those who are predatory will dominate the industry. It is the predators, the traffickers who recruit girls with promises of security, drugs, whatever and then force the work on the girls who we need to target. It can be done.
 
NoParty said:
Unintended consequences:

Federal government shuts down and bans Backpage and all internet sites pertaining to prostitution.
Prostitutes invade social media and dating sites advertising for Johns. Feds asleep at the wheel.
Teenage females watch and learn, quickly.
Six months later, millions of female teenagers on social media and dating sites are selling nudes and sex for the price of a hamburger through cashapp. I’ve seen several “bring me McDonalds for oral” posts, smh.

Huge win for the Johns of the world, huge loss for parents and society. If you have a teenage daughter I would suggest you start your investigation today...
Click to expand...

So what's the solution? I absolutely do not condone sexual slavery or forced prostitution. Faced with no backpage which is how sex workers used to secure clientele, their only option now is the hit the streets and risk getting hit by a car, suffer from hypothermia, and any other risks associated with forcing people outside during the winter to find ways to feed themselves.

What's the solution?
 
lurchadams said:
So what's the solution? I absolutely do not condone sexual slavery or forced prostitution. Faced with no backpage which is how sex workers used to secure clientele, their only option now is the hit the streets and risk getting hit by a car, suffer from hypothermia, and any other risks associated with forcing people outside during the winter to find ways to feed themselves.

What's the solution?
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The solution is to keep it illegal but ignore independent workers.
 
Wayne Jr said:
The solution is to keep it illegal but ignore independent workers.
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Nope. Needs to be legal. Why?

1. It will never go away.
2. It will never go away.
3. See #1 and #2.

So, when you know for sure something illegal millions of people do will never go away your options are:

1. Maintain prohibition, like they did in the 20's and 30's. See how well that worked? The country spent countless millions chasing down illegal booze traffickers. People kept drinking so you know what? We decided to legalize it! We now tax it, we don't have to worry that there might be antifreeze in our wine. People who decide to do it can pickle their livers, kill innocent people in their cars, and throw up in alleys to their heart's content. Personally, I feel blowing off some steam by visiting a sex worker is much more harmless to the public and even more honorable that downing a fifth of bourbon and going for a drive.

2. Legalize it. Using the above booze example, booze is now taxed, at some pretty high rates in some states. I think mine might be one of the highest. I know I'm one of the highest right now :). Where was I? Oh yeah. Legalize it. So now there's oversight over booze production. You don't have to worry your MD 20/20 might be partially cut with bathwater which is pretty much what it tastes like, anywho. The taxes generated from people that enjoy poisoning themselves goes to the general fund and helps to improve all our way of life.

When prostitution is legalized, federally, in 2052, providers will have to submit to periodic STD tests. You won't have to worry about becoming typhoid dick. When a provider is assaulted, which I'm guessing happens frequently, she will have recourse, she can go to the police. She can't now, she just has to put concealer over those scars and bruises and pray the next client both won't catch on and isn't the same as that last asshole.

Tax revenues. Providers will be forced to report their income. The tax revenues will go to whatever fund to which it's founding sisters want it to go.

If a provider is found to be working underage, or forced to be working underage, he/she will be forced to cease what she's doing and/or the person forcing her into prostitution will be facing charges and will be taken off the street. It's the pimps - these garbage low-lives who care nothing of anyone else but themselves. If we still have the death penalty in 2052 (which we won't) but if we do, I'd be fine with pimps getting it.

Anyway, time for another hit of M.J. my friend.

Peace out :2wave:
 
Wayne Jr said:
The solution is to keep it illegal but ignore independent workers.
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This is often the case now, and quick rotations with fines through the courts. A revolving door. Doesn't work.
 
OldFatGuy said:
This is often the case now, and quick rotations with fines through the courts. A revolving door. Doesn't work.
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It works just fine.

Please understand that I don't care about consenting adult women selling sex.

It needs to be illegal so as to give law enforcement the power to curb non-consensual human sex-slave trafficking.

That's why I said, "ignore the independent workers".
 
Wayne Jr said:
It works just fine.

Please understand that I don't care about consenting adult women selling sex.

It needs to be illegal so as to give law enforcement the power to curb non-consensual human sex-slave trafficking.

That's why I said, "ignore the independent workers".
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You can entirely regulate it so that non-consensual sex slave trafficking is totally illegal.. in fact, increase the personalities to PIMPS, not the workers.
 
Wayne Jr said:
It works just fine.

Please understand that I don't care about consenting adult women selling sex.

It needs to be illegal so as to give law enforcement the power to curb non-consensual human sex-slave trafficking.

That's why I said, "ignore the independent workers".
Click to expand...

It doesn't work. There are only two methods for eliminating traffickers, taking away their income and throwing their rear ends in prison for life.
 
OldFatGuy said:
It doesn't work. There are only two methods for eliminating traffickers, taking away their income and throwing their rear ends in prison for life.
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Independent workers have no traffickers, pimps, madams, or etc.
 
Wayne Jr said:
Independent workers have no traffickers, pimps, madams, or etc.
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Maybe. But you need a reality check. Pimps regularly advertise their girls as independent, as if somehow the john is acting with greater morality. No girl just decides she wants to be a prostitute. Someone has always turned her out.

Still you're focusing on symptoms, not curing underlying causes.
 
OldFatGuy said:
Maybe. But you need a reality check. Pimps regularly advertise their girls as independent, as if somehow the john is acting with greater morality. No girl just decides she wants to be a prostitute. Someone has always turned her out.

Still you're focusing on symptoms, not curing underlying causes.
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I personally know a few call girls so I'm judging your post as ignorant to the facts and I wish you a good day :)
 
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