[W:257] Christian Viewpoint On Homosexuality

Re: Christian Viewpoint On Homosexuality

Davey said:

I can choose to have sex with a man if I want. So can anyone. They can also choose not too. Unless you are saying they are too savage to control their lusts?

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Of course, but being gay has little to do with sex at the end of the day. It's about love and intimacy, and you cannot choose to love a man like you love your wife if you're married. No amount of 'choosing' can make that happen.

I know quite a few gay people including my brother, and the act of having straight sex isn't a particularly difficult burden for at least many gay people, and many gay people have regular straight sex, get married, have kids. But they're still gay. I know you don't get that, but the point is sex isn't really the problem or the issue, it's love and intimacy.

That's why the religious prohibition against homosexuality imposes a choice, to either BE something someone isn't (i.e. BE straight, if they are gay) or to live a lie as a straight person, or be celibate. There is no "be straight" option any more than there is a "be gay" option for me or you.

Re: Christian Viewpoint On Homosexuality

soylentgreen said:

Yes he is. By the very fact that he is a christian.

And no, gods words are only what you interpret them as so they are your opinions of what god wants just as much as daveys opinions are what god wants.

I will take it up with you no matter how badly you wish to shifty the blame for your personal prejudice onto a god.

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Gods words are what they are and not mine for interpretation. Homosexuality is declared sinful both in the Old and New Testament. You know this.

I guess the question I would have for you is do you believe in God and Christ? If the answer is yes and you choose worldly pursuits you embody the comments you initially cited in James 4. If the answer is no...you still do, but shouldn’t have a care in the world.

Please know...I’m not condemning you or judging you. I haven’t made a personal attack in any of these discussions. But you can’t pretend things are something they are not, just because you want it to be different, and have any credibility.


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Re: Christian Viewpoint On Homosexuality

Logician Man said:

I was once in a group entitled Muslims vs. ex-Muslims. There were several videos showing women being stoned to death for engaging in homosexual activity. At least the Muslims who posted those videos claimed that was the reason for the stonings.

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I've never seen that.

Re: Christian Viewpoint On Homosexuality

soylentgreen said:

Good, so your point was a failure. People do bad things. And that is not a reason to think being gay or being hetero is therefor bad.

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:lamo

No...the point is homosexuality and other actions are natural, but sinful. Heterosexuality is natural and NOT sinful, but that doesn’t mean heterosexuals do not commit sinful acts.


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Re: Christian Viewpoint On Homosexuality

VanceMack said:

:lamo

No...the point is homosexuality and other actions are natural, but sinful. Heterosexuality is natural and NOT sinful, but that doesn’t mean heterosexuals do not commit sinful acts.


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Homosexuality is not natural according to Romans 1:18-32 (I think). If it was natural, why would mankind be wiped out in one generation if everyone has same sex sex?

Re: Christian Viewpoint On Homosexuality

marke said:

Sounds like your grandma may have loved the grandma who refused to bake homocakes in spite of her fellow degenerates' hatred for Christians.

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I truly hope for for your sake you are someday able to shirk that persecution complex.

Re: Christian Viewpoint On Homosexuality

Moderator's Warning:

Folks, the next person that accuses another poster of being a "liar" is going to get points and a thread ban. Knock it out, stick to talking about the topic and each others arguments, NOT the poster themselves

Re: Christian Viewpoint On Homosexuality

Davey said:

Homosexuality is not natural according to Romans 1:18-32 (I think). If it was natural, why would mankind be wiped out in one generation if everyone has same sex sex?

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Attraction is ‘natural’. Choosing to act on it would be ‘unnatural’.


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Re: Christian Viewpoint On Homosexuality

Davey said:

You putting words in my mouth makes you the loser here. I asked if Gays were unhappy I didn't say they were unhappy. Same old tired act, can't answer so you distract. My questions stand...

1. Are Gays unhappy because they have no choice in this lifestyle?

2. If they had a choice, would they choose not to be Gay?

Please answer the question or let someone else and stop high jacking my post. I really am curious because I do not know the answers.

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I'll happily answer your questions.

1. This one I'm not sure exactly how to answer I'm happy with it now but I had to learn how to be. But I don't think that is unique to homosexual people. Accepting one's own differences that they cannot change is I think an integral part of being happy. I think generally speaking people have to learn how to be happy.

2, if I had a choice at this point in my life no I wouldn't choose to be heterosexual because I've learned how to accept myself. But when I was 14 absolutely. So that's a difficult question to answer if I had the choice at 14 to pick whether I'm hetero or homosexual I would probably be heterosexual today. But if the choice presented itself to me today that's a hard one to answer. I have a partner we're a good match for one another and we are growing more as individuals and as a couple so I wouldn't change that. But if something happens to that relationship and for whatever reason it can't exist anymore I think I would pick to be heterosexual vs trying to find another very rare person you know it's hard enough for a heterosexual person with a much larger dating pool imagine eliminating 98% of your dating pool

Then you add on top of that I'm considered conservative within my one to 2% dating pool so then you have to factor in how much of your time spent with dates will be spent arguing about politics.

So I'm sorry these are straightforward yes or no answers but I wanted to be as honest as I can possibly be.

Re: Christian Viewpoint On Homosexuality

CLAX1911 said:

I'll happily answer your questions.

1. This one I'm not sure exactly how to answer I'm happy with it now but I had to learn how to be. But I don't think that is unique to homosexual people. Accepting one's own differences that they cannot change is I think an integral part of being happy. I think generally speaking people have to learn how to be happy.

2, if I had a choice at this point in my life no I wouldn't choose to be heterosexual because I've learned how to accept myself. But when I was 14 absolutely. So that's a difficult question to answer if I had the choice at 14 to pick whether I'm hetero or homosexual I would probably be heterosexual today. But if the choice presented itself to me today that's a hard one to answer. I have a partner we're a good match for one another and we are growing more as individuals and as a couple so I wouldn't change that. But if something happens to that relationship and for whatever reason it can't exist anymore I think I would pick to be heterosexual vs trying to find another very rare person you know it's hard enough for a heterosexual person with a much larger dating pool imagine eliminating 98% of your dating pool

Then you add on top of that I'm considered conservative within my one to 2% dating pool so then you have to factor in how much of your time spent with dates will be spent arguing about politics.

So I'm sorry these are straightforward yes or no answers but I wanted to be as honest as I can possibly be.

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I appreciate you doing this. Much respect brother.

Re: Christian Viewpoint On Homosexuality

VanceMack said:

And if you dont believe them thats FINE. But you cant fabricate your own 'truth' out of convenience to what you WANT.

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All religion is most likely man made fabrication.

Re: Christian Viewpoint On Homosexuality

Davey said:

I appreciate you doing this. Much respect brother.

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Well I believe there are two keys that are dependent on one another to making peace understanding and compromise. Compromise hurts but understanding only takes the time to read and listen to what other people have to say and to communicate yourself clearly.

I think if we focused on that compromise wouldn't hurt quite so much. And the opposing viewpoints wouldn't feel like the counterpart forcing something down their throat, if that makes any sense.

Re: Christian Viewpoint On Homosexuality

Logician Man said:

I truly hope for for your sake you are someday able to shirk that persecution complex.

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I am not allowed to have a persecution complex. By PC law such a complex cannot be owned by anyone who is not a leftist woman, a leftist black racist, a losing leftist political candidate, an illegal immigrant, a convicted black felon, or leftist American Indian, among other protected elitist groups.

Re: Christian Viewpoint On Homosexuality

CLAX1911 said:

Well I believe there are two keys that are dependent on one another to making peace understanding and compromise. Compromise hurts but understanding only takes the time to read and listen to what other people have to say and to communicate yourself clearly.

I think if we focused on that compromise wouldn't hurt quite so much. And the opposing viewpoints wouldn't feel like the counterpart forcing something down their throat, if that makes any sense.

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Makes a lot of since to me. My daughters were in musical theater growing up, and their friends were mostly Gay. My house was one of the houses the kids always hung out at, which I enjoyed thoroughly. Being Gay must be hard (because of Joe public).

Re: Christian Viewpoint On Homosexuality

Logician Man said:

All religion is most likely man made fabrication.

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Even though I'm a Christian I'm going to say it definitely is. Religion is an apparatus used to guide people into a belief. It's flawed and there are feedback loops and there are various areas where religion is just flat out wrong. But I believe it does have a function and I know this may be contentious but I think it is a useful function. It can be destructive or productive depending on how it's applied.

But when it comes down to it you can be a Catholic or Mormon or a Muslim a Buddhist or whatever and not believe in God at all. You can go to church synagogue and mosque or whatever you can do the actions kneeling praying singing fasting and all those sorts of things. You can hang crucifixes and crescents in your house but that doesn't mean you believe in God. I think a lot of people that do that want to.

But I digress I have a sort of theory hypothesis about this sort of thing but it's really rough around the edges and I've really kind of just been working on it in my spare time. A lot of the times people don't want to hear about it. So I will digress for now.

Re: Christian Viewpoint On Homosexuality

Davey said:

Makes a lot of since to me. My daughters were in musical theater growing up, and their friends were mostly Gay. My house was one of the houses the kids always hung out at, which I enjoyed thoroughly. Being Gay must be hard (because of Joe public).

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My difficulties accepting it didn't really have anything to do with Joe public or outside appearances I may be an oddity in this regard, but my main difficulty was me accepting it. I don't know how much information is too much so if it gets there just tell me.

When I was a boy 12 or 13 I had an Inkling that I was different when I got into my later teen years I knew I was and it really bothered me I thought there was something wrong with me I was ashamed of it I couldn't help it that was the part that bothered me the most. I tried very hard many different things to change what I felt. But you know how urges are in the inner feelings you can't control them.

I don't know how old you are if you're in your teen years now or if they were years ago but if you experience to them you know. Those awkward moments the things you say to girls or boys whatever your proclivities are how embarrassing it was when you ran across someone that was just so attractive you couldn't speak.

I had all of those same feelings but on top of them being embarrassing they disgusted me. Boys aren't supposed to like boys.

I'm not going to lay this at societies feet and say that it owes me an apology. There was a time when I would have said the exact opposite but part of living is growing. I went through a. Where I talked about being indoctrinated and programmed and to some extent we all are part of being happy is knowing which programming is good and which programming can be discarded.

So I was never really that defiant person that had to push it in people's faces. I didn't come out until I was about 25 or so and that was to a very select few it's not something I wear on my sleeve and if you really want to know about it you can ask or if I get into discussions about spouses Homelife people tend to figure it out. Most folks are nonchalant about it and I appreciate that it really isn't that big a deal. It's like being Jewish or having a grandfather served in World War II. It's just a random fact that doesn't make a whole lot of difference.

But I digress.

Re: Christian Viewpoint On Homosexuality

marke said:

I am not allowed to have a persecution complex. By PC law such a complex cannot be owned by anyone who is not a leftist woman, a leftist black racist, a losing leftist political candidate, an illegal immigrant, a convicted black felon, or leftist American Indian, among other protected elitist groups.

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:lamo

Re: Christian Viewpoint On Homosexuality

Logician Man said:

:lamo

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Priceless!:lamo

Re: Christian Viewpoint On Homosexuality

CLAX1911 said:

My difficulties accepting it didn't really have anything to do with Joe public or outside appearances I may be an oddity in this regard, but my main difficulty was me accepting it. I don't know how much information is too much so if it gets there just tell me.

When I was a boy 12 or 13 I had an Inkling that I was different when I got into my later teen years I knew I was and it really bothered me I thought there was something wrong with me I was ashamed of it I couldn't help it that was the part that bothered me the most. I tried very hard many different things to change what I felt. But you know how urges are in the inner feelings you can't control them.

I don't know how old you are if you're in your teen years now or if they were years ago but if you experience to them you know. Those awkward moments the things you say to girls or boys whatever your proclivities are how embarrassing it was when you ran across someone that was just so attractive you couldn't speak.

I had all of those same feelings but on top of them being embarrassing they disgusted me. Boys aren't supposed to like boys.

I'm not going to lay this at societies feet and say that it owes me an apology. There was a time when I would have said the exact opposite but part of living is growing. I went through a. Where I talked about being indoctrinated and programmed and to some extent we all are part of being happy is knowing which programming is good and which programming can be discarded.

So I was never really that defiant person that had to push it in people's faces. I didn't come out until I was about 25 or so and that was to a very select few it's not something I wear on my sleeve and if you really want to know about it you can ask or if I get into discussions about spouses Homelife people tend to figure it out. Most folks are nonchalant about it and I appreciate that it really isn't that big a deal. It's like being Jewish or having a grandfather served in World War II. It's just a random fact that doesn't make a whole lot of difference.

But I digress.

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My toughts...I have had 'urges' to experiment with other men, and at times I have fantasized about it. That is where I stopped, though. I don't understand when people say they have no choice, because they do.

I have heard "why would I want this misery', my counter would be....heck, any 18 year old boy is frustrated (horny), regardless of what sex partner they desire. Join the club.

I think that telling and teaching kids they are borne this way when they are not, just adds to the confusion. They are miserable because they are horny, not because they are Gay. Shoot when you're young even the sofa cushions look good lol

Re: Christian Viewpoint On Homosexuality

Part 1 of 2

Davey said:

My toughts...I have had 'urges' to experiment with other men, and at times I have fantasized about it. That is where I stopped, though. I don't understand when people say they have no choice, because they do.

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they have a choice because you could stop? What if I couldn't stop? I tried for the better part of 14 years to stop it never worked for me. And the urges toward women never existed then never happened despite me wanting them too badly.

The urges for you probably stopped because the urges for women or girls depending on how old you were took president.

What if that never happened for me?

I tried dating women I did date women and I had a hard time with that I felt guilty because they didn't do it for me they felt bad because they thought they were lesser as women because I wasn't robust and excited.

Is it right to do that to women? Everyday I meet up with you and kiss you and I feel bad about it because I'm lying is that better than being honest? Is that better than telling them there's nothing wrong with them that I'm sure there's men out there that find them attractive I just don't because I'm homosexual.

See I went a lot farther then you ever thought about going with your little passing Fancy. You turned it off like a light switch I tried to hold the ocean up.

So I think I'm much more sure, after trying much harder then you ever had to switch it off, that it can't be switched off.

If it was a choice I would be heterosexual there would be no such thing as homosexuality if it was a choice nobody wants to be when they first discover they are.

I have heard "why would I want this misery', my counter would be....heck, any 18 year old boy is frustrated (horny), regardless of what sex partner they desire. Join the club.

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one thing I was hoping you would understand and I don't think you picked up on it. Is that I wasn't just horny at 18. I was disgusted with myself for what made me horny. You don't understand that disgust or that misery because you could switch it off after a few weeks or a few months of fantasizing about it I couldn't switch it off (forgive my bluntness) with a woman shaking her crotch in my face. Now do you think when you had your little stage of thoughts then if a woman was willing and able to have sex with you at that moment that you would have said "I think I want to be with a guy"?

Don't presume your experience is the same as everyone else's. You're lucky that you could switch it off the Decades of suffering I put myself through I could have not if I just switched it off. The weeks upon weeks of sleeplessness I spent crying and begging God to please help me could have all been avoided if it really was just a choice

I wish it was you think I have it bad by no means my partner was excommunicated from his church his family won't talk to him he lost the moment he came out a mother or father Three Sisters and every single childhood friend he ever had. And he was ashamed of it he still is to some degree. I have no doubt in my mind if that man could just decide not to be gay he would in a heartbeat. I'd forgive him.

I lost one brother just one 2 years ago and that has been a devastating impact on me I still have a mother my father a sister and a brother I still have friends I grew up with and people I met in church they still love me but my life is forever changed a person that had that impact on me is gone and I would give anything I could just to have five more minutes with him.

My partner lost everyone everyone not a person extended the slightest bit kindness to him.

You don't think I want to give my parents grandchildren you don't think I want to have kids the first thing I can ever remember wanting to do with my life is be a father.

It's not impossible but it's a hell of a lot harder to be a father is a homosexual man.

These are the things that have been on my mind from the moment I realized I was gay 14 years old to now at 36 years old.

I hope I'm not being too contentious but I want you to understand why people say that it's not a choice I want you to understand why people get offended and hurt when you say that it is.

Re: Christian Viewpoint On Homosexuality

Part 2of2

Davey said:

I think that telling and teaching kids they are borne this way when they are not, just adds to the confusion.

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I was never told that I Was Born This Way by anybody who I would have believed. I've never argued that I Was Born This Way. This started happening when I was a teenager. I remember being a kid just like every other kid. This didn't happen until 8th and 9th grade. So you'll never hear me make the argument that I Was Born This Way I've never said that I Was Born This Way it doesn't matter.

That being said there are people like you that have a passing fancy and maybe they don't get as lucky with women as you did maybe you didn't I don't know. So I don't think it's so important to tell children anything about it except for that they exist.

They are miserable because they are horny, not because they are Gay. Shoot when you're young even the sofa cushions look good lol

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Those feelings when I was younger gave me a lot of anxiety. So I controlled my sexuality as much as I could. Because if my mind wandered off and that direction I wasn't going to sleep that night I was just going to have horrendous stomach aches throughout the day. And when I would look in the mirror I absolutely hated what I saw.

So you got to have a bizarre attraction to a sofa cushion. I did not.

I don't think you and I are much different on many things but this one thing there are oceans of difference.

Re: Christian Viewpoint On Homosexuality

Sofa cushions? I never heard of that fetish.

Re: Christian Viewpoint On Homosexuality

CLAX1911 said:

Part 1 of 2 they have a choice because you could stop? What if I couldn't stop? I tried for the better part of 14 years to stop it never worked for me. And the urges toward women never existed then never happened despite me wanting them too badly.

The urges for you probably stopped because the urges for women or girls depending on how old you were took president.

What if that never happened for me?

I tried dating women I did date women and I had a hard time with that I felt guilty because they didn't do it for me they felt bad because they thought they were lesser as women because I wasn't robust and excited.

Is it right to do that to women? Everyday I meet up with you and kiss you and I feel bad about it because I'm lying is that better than being honest? Is that better than telling them there's nothing wrong with them that I'm sure there's men out there that find them attractive I just don't because I'm homosexual.

See I went a lot farther then you ever thought about going with your little passing Fancy. You turned it off like a light switch I tried to hold the ocean up.

So I think I'm much more sure, after trying much harder then you ever had to switch it off, that it can't be switched off.

If it was a choice I would be heterosexual there would be no such thing as homosexuality if it was a choice nobody wants to be when they first discover they are.

one thing I was hoping you would understand and I don't think you picked up on it. Is that I wasn't just horny at 18. I was disgusted with myself for what made me horny. You don't understand that disgust or that misery because you could switch it off after a few weeks or a few months of fantasizing about it I couldn't switch it off (forgive my bluntness) with a woman shaking her crotch in my face. Now do you think when you had your little stage of thoughts then if a woman was willing and able to have sex with you at that moment that you would have said "I think I want to be with a guy"?

Don't presume your experience is the same as everyone else's. You're lucky that you could switch it off the Decades of suffering I put myself through I could have not if I just switched it off. The weeks upon weeks of sleeplessness I spent crying and begging God to please help me could have all been avoided if it really was just a choice

I wish it was you think I have it bad by no means my partner was excommunicated from his church his family won't talk to him he lost the moment he came out a mother or father Three Sisters and every single childhood friend he ever had. And he was ashamed of it he still is to some degree. I have no doubt in my mind if that man could just decide not to be gay he would in a heartbeat. I'd forgive him.

I lost one brother just one 2 years ago and that has been a devastating impact on me I still have a mother my father a sister and a brother I still have friends I grew up with and people I met in church they still love me but my life is forever changed a person that had that impact on me is gone and I would give anything I could just to have five more minutes with him.

My partner lost everyone everyone not a person extended the slightest bit kindness to him.

You don't think I want to give my parents grandchildren you don't think I want to have kids the first thing I can ever remember wanting to do with my life is be a father.

It's not impossible but it's a hell of a lot harder to be a father is a homosexual man.

These are the things that have been on my mind from the moment I realized I was gay 14 years old to now at 36 years old.

I hope I'm not being too contentious but I want you to understand why people say that it's not a choice I want you to understand why people get offended and hurt when you say that it is.

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Don't want to hurt anybodies feelings. Let me just say this....regarding the Lord Jesus, He wants you to come to Him just the way you are. I don't think we have talked about Him yet.

He will not judge you, He will accept you for you are as you are. The rest you two can work it out as you go.

I am not saying you, but I hope no one uses being Gay as an excuse not to come to Christ and ask Him to be your Lord and Savior. It is God's will for all to come to Him. Thank you for the amazing insight.


Davey

Re: Christian Viewpoint On Homosexuality

zyzygy said:

Sofa cushions? I never heard of that fetish.

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It was in a half hour comedy (Life in Pieces), laughed the rest of the night over that one.

Re: Christian Viewpoint On Homosexuality

CLAX1911 said:

Part 2of2 I was never told that I Was Born This Way by anybody who I would have believed. I've never argued that I Was Born This Way. This started happening when I was a teenager. I remember being a kid just like every other kid. This didn't happen until 8th and 9th grade. So you'll never hear me make the argument that I Was Born This Way I've never said that I Was Born This Way it doesn't matter.

That being said there are people like you that have a passing fancy and maybe they don't get as lucky with women as you did maybe you didn't I don't know. So I don't think it's so important to tell children anything about it except for that they exist.


Those feelings when I was younger gave me a lot of anxiety. So I controlled my sexuality as much as I could. Because if my mind wandered off and that direction I wasn't going to sleep that night I was just going to have horrendous stomach aches throughout the day. And when I would look in the mirror I absolutely hated what I saw.

So you got to have a bizarre attraction to a sofa cushion. I did not.

I don't think you and I are much different on many things but this one thing there are oceans of difference.

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This is a promise from God to all of us.

1 Corinthians 10:13 (KJV)

13 There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.

He knows we think of things like homosexual lust among other things, that's not a sin. He has a way to help us.