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[W:585:651]]Doctor's Viewpoint on Being Transgender

Re: Doctor's Viewpoint on Being Transgender

Kobie said:
Short version: How To Lie With Acronyms

Disguising yourself as a reasonable group of medical professionals when you’re just another cesspool of wingnut hate. These people are despicable, as are anyone who claims that their twisted, evil views are “the truth.”
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Try attacking her arguments, instead of her.
 
Re: Doctor's Viewpoint on Being Transgender

MrMike said:
I view it as an unfortunate programming error (for those that are gender misassigned as a person). Then there are those that take it the other way as a sexual fetish they delve into and that is another matter altogether.

I do think parents that encourage a son or daughter to convert to another gender (even before the kid has a clear understanding of what they are doing) is child abuse.
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That's basically what the doctor in the video is saying...that it's software, and not hardware.
 
Re: Doctor's Viewpoint on Being Transgender

spud_meister said:
In people with sex chromosome variations, how do you propose they are gendered?
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I assume you're referring to sexual chromosome disorders. They are extremely rare mutations, that each already have their own medical classifications. None of them involve the classifications put forth by the LBGTABCDEF... community. And, note that they are called disorders for a reason. Those that are rare enough to survive are still readily identifiable by their extra or erroneously crossed genes...not just because they wake up one day and decide they don't like their genitals.
 
Re: Doctor's Viewpoint on Being Transgender

CLAX1911 said:
I think that is done in a case by case basis. If i were to assume gender means sex.
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Gender is the sociological implication of sex. Obviously, an individual with say Turner Syndrome doesn't fit into your binary categories, so how would you determine their gender?
 
Re: Doctor's Viewpoint on Being Transgender

Anarchon said:
I assume you're referring to sexual chromosome disorders. They are extremely rare mutations, that each already have their own medical classifications. None of them involve the classifications put forth by the LBGTABCDEF... community. And, note that they are called disorders for a reason. Those that are rare enough to survive are still readily identifiable by their extra or erroneously crossed genes...not just because they wake up one day and decide they don't like their genitals.
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Ok, but how would you gender an individual with XX male syndrome?
 
Re: Doctor's Viewpoint on Being Transgender

CLAX1911 said:
The sad thing is you're laughing at yourself.

They're being only two Sexes is the most basic concept in human biology
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you are confusing sex with gender.They are two very different things.
 
Re: Doctor's Viewpoint on Being Transgender

L0neW0lf said:
This is a matter that is clearly way over her head. Sexuality is not binary, she meant to say sex which she is also confusing with gender. How can a native speaker, let alone a doctor speaking about the subject of sex not know this is beyond me. She refers to reproduction being "the rule" but what rule is that? she falsely claims that there is a binary of XX or XY, any person here (let alone a doctor) would know that THE sex chromosomes a person is born with are not binary; there are plenty of variation. Her next argument about thoughts and feelings being not biological is not accurate either, biology and chemistry influences how the brain develops and can influences "thoughts and feelings" that is why drugs can affect a persons mental health positively or negatively.

Individuals with DSD are not used as "pawns", they are mentioned because their existance disproves the definition you are using to claim sex is binary. Even if you are going to use a definition of sex that is binary, it says nothing about whether gender would be binary or whether it must correspond to sex.
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-You should realize that this is a new concept (gender != sex) that was made up by the latest generations, and not taught in medical school because it is not medical science. Just because SJW's found some cause to seemingly give their life meaning, or excuse their irrational behavior behavior, does not mean this cause is worthy or based on truth.

-This is blatantly false. I'm "a person here" and in fact I know the opposite of what you say is true. I've taken biology courses, and studied sexual chromosomes before. What you're stating goes against very basic biological principles.

-As stated earlier in this thread, chromosome disorders are mutations. They are genetic mistakes caused by momma doing crack, living too close to Chernobyl, not eating enough of a certain enzyme, or just rare happenstance. No one has said that errors don't occur in genetics. However, they are exceptions to the rule, they are extremely rare, and they do not include the kind of people SJW's are looking to excuse. Each of these mutations has their own classifications; such as Turner's syndrome, Jacob's syndrome, Klinefelter's syndrome, etc. Most of them die due to the physical abnormalities that accompany the disorders. The remainder have other birth defects and physical problems. They all have clear diagnosable criteria. Some of this subjective crap these people with agendas are trying to throw in is not a part of it. A little boy deciding he wants to wear a dress is not criteria, nor does it make sexual chromosomes non-binary.
 
Re: Doctor's Viewpoint on Being Transgender

CLAX1911 said:
Actually variation is quite rare.
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What I said was; "she falsely claims that there is a binary of XX or XY, any person here (let alone a doctor) would know that THE sex chromosomes a person is born with are not binary; there are plenty of variation.", how rarely those plenty of different variations that exist occur is irrelevant, what is only relevant is the fact that only ignorant people would claim that there exists a binary of XY/XX, a doctor should know better.

Gender and sex are often used as synonyms.
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By laypeople perhaps, by ignorant people that do not know that sexuality is not the same as sex if you are however going to be speaking on the subject of transgenderism, you should know better.


I would agree with her, body integrity dismorphic disorder is a psychological issue
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You cannot even spell the name of the disordor correctly and yet you feel yourself qualified enough to form an educated opinion on it.

What I was clearly disputing in my post is her unsubstantiated dismissal of the possibility that biological factors might influence the development of a transgender identity. According to her, transgender identity is about "thoughts and feelings", it is a well known fact that biology/chemistry does indeed affect mental health, it affects thoughts, feelings and behaviour. We know genes affect the development of "pshycological issue"s that run in families. Like her you are way out of your depth.

I would suggest you'd leave the matter for experts and reserve your unsolicited judgements until much more research is done on the subject.
 
Re: Doctor's Viewpoint on Being Transgender

spud_meister said:
Gender is the sociological implication of sex. Obviously, an individual with say Turner Syndrome doesn't fit into your binary categories, so how would you determine their gender?
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Turner Syndrome only affects females. There's probably a better example for you to use. In any case, this isn't some boy that one day chooses to wear a dress.
 
Re: Doctor's Viewpoint on Being Transgender

spud_meister said:
Ok, but how would you gender an individual with XX male syndrome?
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Technically, they are mutants. They are genetic mistakes with testable criteria. They also only make up 1 in 25,000 people, which is rare in the extreme. Again, this is not some boy that one day chooses to wear a dress.
 
Re: Doctor's Viewpoint on Being Transgender

Anarchon said:
Turner Syndrome only affects females. There's probably a better example for you to use. In any case, this isn't some boy that one day chooses to wear a dress.
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How can they be female? The truth lady said sex is binary, either XX or XY.
 
Re: Doctor's Viewpoint on Being Transgender

Anarchon said:
Technically, they are mutants. They are genetic mistakes with testable criteria. They also only make up 1 in 25,000 people, which is rare in the extreme. Again, this is not some boy that one day chooses to wear a dress.
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Not the point. How do you go about giving them a gender identity?
 
Re: Doctor's Viewpoint on Being Transgender

L0neW0lf said:
You cannot even spell the name of the disordor correctly and yet you feel yourself qualified enough to form an educated opinion on it.
We know genes affect the development of "pshycological issue"s that run in families. Like her you are way out of your depth.
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:lol::lamo
 
Re: Doctor's Viewpoint on Being Transgender

spud_meister said:
How can they be female? The truth lady said sex is binary, either XX or XY.
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This is what the "truth lady" said...

There are a variety of very rare biological genetic disorders that result in disorders of sex development. These individuals have a true physiological, genetic, biological problem, so it may be appropriate within those cases to give them surgery or they may need hormones. But that's a case-by-case basis and they are the exception, not the rule. Why do we refer to them colloquially as intersex? Because they are between the norms.

If you folks would have bothered to consider what she was saying, instead of mindlessly attacking her...
 
Re: Doctor's Viewpoint on Being Transgender

Anarchon said:
This is what the "truth lady" said...

There are a variety of very rare biological genetic disorders that result in disorders of sex development. These individuals have a true physiological, genetic, biological problem, so it may be appropriate within those cases to give them surgery or they may need hormones. But that's a case-by-case basis and they are the exception, not the rule. Why do we refer to them colloquially as intersex? Because they are between the norms.
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What criteria would you use to sort an intersex person into a gender role? And why is this case of people with "physiological, genetic, biological problem" recognised, but not individuals with neurological problems that cause them to believe they are of the opposite gender?

How do you choose which "physiological, genetic, biological" problems require treatment and which don't?
 
Re: Doctor's Viewpoint on Being Transgender

Anarchon said:
-You should realize that this is a new concept (gender != sex) that was made up by the latest generations, and not taught in medical school because it is not medical science. Just because SJW's found some cause to seemingly give their life meaning, or excuse their irrational behavior behavior, does not mean this cause is worthy or based on truth.
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And you should realise there is no excuse for a native English speaking doctor to now know the difference between "sexuality" and sex, and no excuse for a doctor talking about transgender identity to conflate between biological sex and gender.

and not taught in medical school
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Perhaps in disreputable ones, otherwise, it would be taught.

-This is blatantly false. I'm "a person here" and in fact I know the opposite of what you say is true. I've taken biology courses, and studied sexual chromosomes before. What you're stating goes against very basic biological principles.
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Nothing you've quoted goes against "very basic biological principles", it is an objective fact that the sex chromosomes a person is born with are not limited to xy or xx, but a whole host of different variations. A person claiming that there only exists two options in xy/xx is ignorant, a doctor should know better, and you seem to know better as well but are apparently confused, perhaps you do not understand the meaning of the word binary? I'll help you, if you can be born with anything other than 2 options, it is not "binary".


As stated earlier in this thread, chromosome disorders are mutations
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Not really sure what your point is, it doesn't matter why it occurs, so long as it occurs and it is an option, you cannot claim it doesn't count. The medical fact is that there is no binary, there are various options of which XY and XX are the most common.

You do not see people claiming that eye color is unary, that there is only one eye color and that having light color eyes doesn't count because of the fact that the variation in eye color is a result of "mutations". Because that would be stupid.

A little boy deciding he wants to wear a dress is not criteria,
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I am pretty sure strong preference for cross dressing is one criterion for diagnosing children with gender dysphoria, it is not the entire criteria for diagnosis though, you should read up on it, makes a lot of sense if you ask me.

nor does it make sexual chromosomes non-binary.
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You are seemingly confusing sex, gender and trasgenderism here, a trasgender person does not claim their biological sex has changed because the gender they identify with does not conform to their sex. Its not part of the argument so its weird that you think this is a claim people make.
 
Re: Doctor's Viewpoint on Being Transgender

Its no wonder so many people are so completely ****ed up.

This is a man.
zoey_2.jpg

So is this.
la-et-c1-zoey-tur-profile-20150331.jpg

Now you can lie to this person all you want. You can tell them that because they FEEL like a woman, they ARE a woman...but they arent. Genetically he is still a man. And when you tell him that he is REALLY a woman...because...you know...he FEELS like a woman...at the end of the day, its still Bob staring back at Zoey. And Bob is a man. And Zoey knows it.

Worse...this whole dialogue is destructive. You dont have to lie to people or convince them that its OK to lie to themselves to help them find happiness. When Bob Tur loves himself enough toaccept that he is a man, that for some reason really FEELS like he should have been born a woman...but he wasnt...he was born a man...and thats OK...then Bob Tur can do anything he wants and be OK. He can have cosmetic work to make his exterior look more like what he feels like. but what you cant do is really and truly convince Zoey Tur that THIS
zoey-tur1.jpg

is a woman.

Because he isnt.
 
Re: Doctor's Viewpoint on Being Transgender

L0neW0lf said:
I am pretty sure strong preference for cross dressing is one criterion for diagnosing children with gender dysphoria, it is not the entire criteria for diagnosis though, you should read up on it, makes a lot of sense if you ask me.
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This is exactly what I'm talking about. "Gender dysphoria" is a psychological diagnosis, exactly like the doctor in the interview described. It is not a sexual chromosome disorder. You cannot point to a medical/genetic test to diagnose it.

As per the DSM5, these are the criteria for diagnosing Gender Dysphoria:

A marked incongruence between one’s experienced/expressed gender and primary and/or secondary sex characteristics
A strong desire to be rid of one’s primary and/or secondary sex characteristics
A strong desire for the primary and/or secondary sex characteristics of the other gender
A strong desire to be of the other gender
A strong desire to be treated as the other gender
A strong conviction that one has the typical feelings and reactions of the other gender

Notice that these are all feelings, exactly what the doctor in the interview said. It is a mental illness.
 
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