Is Transgenderism a choice?

yankintx said:

Speaking as a gay man, its refreshing to hear a Conservative voice the truth, its not a choice. I just wish the party had not sent me packing after I voted for Reagan and Bush1. I could not support the GOP on a national level after they cozied up to the Evangelicals and swung the party into gay bashing for religious reasons.

I know a few TG folks, I dont pretend to know there minds, and how they think. I will admit I find it confusing, as they claim its not a sexual thing, they just prefer to be the opposite sex, in dress, manors, and with all the appropiate parts. I say live and let live. Me, I prefer my men in pants, and to act like men.

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I understand. I know a trans person who was a man, now a woman and still prefers woman sexually. She states that being in the worng bady has nothing to do with your sexual preferences. Just like you who do not want to change your body because you are comfortable in the skin you are in, but prefer same sex intimacy .

X Factor said:

I, personally, feel the question regarding homosexuality is settled. It isn’t a choice any more than being hetero is. I’m not as sure with regard to being trans. From my extremely limited perspective, there seems to be a lot of choice involved but I don’t think people undertake changing their physical gender lightly. Can this even be answered by a simple yes or no?

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Based on a sample size of 1 in my personal orbit, I'd say that while it's definitely a choice to have body altering procedures done, I think there are people who have to make that choice in order to be true to themselves.:twocents:

X Factor said:

I, personally, feel the question regarding homosexuality is settled. It isn’t a choice any more than being hetero is. I’m not as sure with regard to being trans. From my extremely limited perspective, there seems to be a lot of choice involved but I don’t think people undertake changing their physical gender lightly. Can this even be answered by a simple yes or no?

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Is it a choice to be Transgender? No. The choice lay in choosing to fix the problem versus trying to live the lie, for whatever reason, religion, family, culture, denial... That's my pov, for what it's worth.

DiAnna said:

I don't think they take it lightly either. I've had conversations with perhaps a half-dozen transgenders over the years, and they all describe the same sense of basically, horror, at looking at the mirrored reflection and seeing a body that their brain cannot recognize as belonging to them. Their brains are hard-wired for one gender, and one gender only; unfortunately, the body they possess is not the same gender.

These people go through a lot of heartbreak, emotional trauma, years of psychological counseling, and varying degrees of physical pain (depending on whether they choose surgery or hormone treatments alone).

So to your question, it's not a simply "yes" or "no" to anyone who has not suffered a lifetime of gender identity dysphoria. They'd have to be pretty much in the "no choice" camp to undergo an actual physical transformation.

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It's a hell that is hard to put in words.

X Factor said:

I, personally, feel the question regarding homosexuality is settled. It isn’t a choice any more than being hetero is. I’m not as sure with regard to being trans. From my extremely limited perspective, there seems to be a lot of choices involved but I don’t think people undertake to change their physical gender lightly. Can this even be answered by a simple yes or no?

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I think this is largely irrelevant. The real question is whether the choice impacts your life in any meaningful way. You could argue that child molesters don't choose to be attracted to children, but that doesn't give them the right to molest children. You could argue that to a certain extent that there are biological factors that can cause people to be more conservative. That doesn't mean we can't judge Republicans for there terrible beliefs and the damage they cause.

I want to know how exactly transgendered people are hurting you or others. If their decision really only impacts their own life then who gives a rats ass? I could listen to people argue that transgendered women shouldn't be able to compete athletically against biological women. I would listen to people argue that a transgendered person should have to identify themselves that way before they have sex with someone.

Generally, before a doctor will perform gender reassignment surgery on a person that person is required to dress and act like a member of the opposite sex for at least a year straight to make sure they know what they're getting themselves into before they do something drastic. That would seem to indicate that even if it's not really a choice, there are some people who still make that choice and then change their minds.

I have a good friend I met a year ago who at the time said she was bisexual. She then dated a guy for a while for a while, but that went south so she decided she was a lesbian. Then she dated a girl who brokers her hear, and she swore off girls because there was too much drama. Then she tried guys for a while and nothing really floated her boat. Now she's got a girlfriend she really likes so she's a full blown lesbian. Does that mean she made a choice, or does it mean she just doesn't know herself yet?

To me, a lot of this stuff is like being left-handed versus right-handed. Most are naturally inclined to one or the other, but if your parents buy you a left-handed baseball glove and make you write right handed you may end up that way even if it's not necessarily what you should be.

MrWonka said:

I think this is largely irrelevant. The real question is whether the choice impacts your life in any meaningful way. ..

I want to know how exactly transgendered people are hurting you or others. If their decision really only impacts their own life then who gives a rats ass?

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Unfortunately, like other minorities, they've discovered that they can use the force of government to impact other peoples' lives besides their own.

Anarchon said:

Unfortunately, like other minorities, they've discovered that they can use the force of government to impact other peoples' lives besides their own.

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How does their life choices affect you?

Anarchon said:

Unfortunately, like other minorities, they've discovered that they can use the force of government to impact other peoples' lives besides their own.

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thats to bad thats going on in your country, luckily in the US that doesnt happen. laws protecting us apply to everybody. In fact gays and transgenders arent treated equally under the law yet but they will be in my life time. Protections for sexual orientation will be national sooner than later and im sure sexual identiy protections will follow if not at the same time.

It can be a choice driven by circumstance, past experience, or other psychological reasons or potentially could be a birth trait. A lot of people confuse being transgender with being a cross dresser, just like people confuse defining a person by sex - which is biological - and gender - which is social standards, norms and/or psychological.

AGENT J said:

thats to bad thats going on in your country, luckily in the US that doesnt happen. laws protecting us apply to everybody. In fact gays and transgenders arent treated equally under the law yet but they will be in my life time. Protections for sexual orientation will be national sooner than later and im sure sexual identiy protections will follow if not at the same time.

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I'm in the US also, and it was the US that I was referring to.

Anarchon said:

I'm in the US also, and it was the US that I was referring to.

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factual proof of what you say then, that minorities are using force of government to impact other peoples lives because in not familiar with that going on in the US

Citizen said:

How does their life choices affect you?

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When they choose to use the government to force others to accommodate them. Forcing businesses to create a third bathroom is an example that has already happened in the US.

AGENT J said:

factual proof of what you say then, that minorities are using force of government to impact other peoples lives because in not familiar with that going on in the US

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The bathroom example stated above. There have also been lawsuits suing employers that have fired people for being transgender, and against landlords that have chosen not to rent to them. There are also fines up to 250k for not using transgender preferred pronouns and offending their delicate sensibilities.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2016/05/17/you-can-be-fined-for-not-calling-people-ze-or-hir-if-thats-the-pronoun-they-demand-that-you-use/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.2f75408e3b37

Anarchon said:

1.) The bathroom example stated above.
2.) There have also been lawsuits suing employers that have fired people for being transgender, and against landlords that have chosen not to rent to them. There are also fines up to 250k for not using transgender preferred pronouns and offending their delicate sensibilities.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2016/05/17/you-can-be-fined-for-not-calling-people-ze-or-hir-if-thats-the-pronoun-they-demand-that-you-use/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.2f75408e3b37

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1.) so you mean establishing equal rights and protects the same as us all, like i said what you claim is NOT going on in the US.
and for the third bathroom most times that somes up based on people that ont want transgenders in tier bathroom lol
2.) again you mean illegal discrimination based on the laws in that area something we all have the protection of? and your link is to a conspiracy opnion piece LMAO

ill ask you AGAIN, do you have factual proof of what you say then, that minorities are using force of government to impact other peoples lives because in not familiar with that going on in the US
everything you stated applies to ALL of us, its not special for minorities. are you really from the us?

Personally, I believe the demand of the Democratic Party that men have a civil right to hang out in ladies restrooms was the most harmful issue of all the the Democratic Party in the last election.

This county had democrat local officials and while it would vote Republican for president, it would be by a slight margin. In the last election every Democrat was removed and President Trump not only carried this county by over 80%, plus the county below and all counties above (Florida Central and Northern Gulf Natural Coast), more significantly the voter turn out was massive.

Why? There are all of druggie bums who commit about 95% of the crimes here. One murdered a little girl, burying her body under a porch. Another attacked a young waitress going to her car after her shift - and kidnapped, brutally raped and murdered her, and another cut off an elderly woman's head in her house he broke into. This area has dozens of little unpoliced parks all over the place - all with public restrooms. Those bums are tun out of the public bathrooms in the parks all the time - usually earning a night in jail for it and the strongest possible threats if he ever is caught in one again.

The idea that any of those drugged up bums could hang out hiding in a bathroom stall and all he has to say is "I feel like a woman" was horrific, just as was the idea that any school boy merely had to say "I feel like a girl" and he showered with the girls and on overnight outings had to be put in motel room with a girl.

THAT issue REALLY fired up people. While such stories of crime are invisible to people in huge cities because hundreds of crimes are committed every day, in smaller cities that is EVERYTHING to people's minds.

I am 100% pro SSM, even an SSM adult child. I don't care if someone wants to cross dress, feels like a woman or any of that. Anyone can do their own thing. But it is horrifically false to claim transgender rights are the same as gay/bi rights - a horrible lie against gays and bis - and I absolutely, totally believe that in legal terms no person can claim FORCED to be the oppose sex with this forced on everyone UNLESS the person's genitals have been changed accordingly. Again, anyone can dress as they want, wear make up or not, and claim any GENDER they want to. But a person's SEX is completely different from GENDER. A person biologically is the sex the person is, though can act like any gender for any reason the person wants to.

I will concede if a guy has sex reassignment surgery then he can claim to be of the female sex for legal purposes. Otherwise, no. Absolutely no when it comes to the privacy and safety of girls and women.


The Democratic Party knows it too. Notice how every Democrat in Congress and all of the Democrat MSM have gone 100% silent on trans-rights issues. They really don't care about LGTBQs whatsoever. They thought it a good issue and it was a disaster for them.
This issue crushed the Democratic candidates in the region up and down the ticket - and it gave Trump the state of Florida.

AGENT J said:

1.) so you mean establishing equal rights and protects the same as us all, like i said what you claim is NOT going on in the US.
and for the third bathroom most times that somes up based on people that ont want transgenders in tier bathroom lol
2.) again you mean illegal discrimination based on the laws in that area something we all have the protection of? and your link is to a conspiracy opnion piece LMAO

ill ask you AGAIN, do you have factual proof of what you say then, that minorities are using force of government to impact other peoples lives because in not familiar with that going on in the US
everything you stated applies to ALL of us, its not special for minorities. are you really from the us?

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Being free includes the ability to discriminate. If you wish to use force to keep people from being able to discriminate, you are eliminating freedom. All choices involve discrimination. You'd want to eliminate choice, forcefully. My statement stands.

Anarchon said:

1.)Being free includes the ability to discriminate.
2.) If you wish to use force to keep people from being able to discriminate, you are eliminating freedom. All choices involve discrimination. You'd want to eliminate choice, forcefully.
3.) My statement stands.

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1.) nope not if its illegal . . in this country we dont support anarchy. people have rights and they cant just be violated its what makes this country great.
2.) wrong again freedom still excists
3.) your statement completely fails and is destroyed by the fact you cant name ONE example of minorities are using force of government to impact other peoples lives. Not one.

please let us know when you can, until then your claims reminds factually false, thanks!

Anarchon said:

When they choose to use the government to force others to accommodate them. Forcing businesses to create a third bathroom is an example that has already happened in the US.

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There is no third bathroom force. The force is that people like you want to determine who is a man and who is a woman before they enter the bathroom. Many states just chose to accommodate people like you by just having single non gender toilets and washroom.

X Factor said:

I, personally, feel the question regarding homosexuality is settled. It isn’t a choice any more than being hetero is. I’m not as sure with regard to being trans. From my extremely limited perspective, there seems to be a lot of choice involved but I don’t think people undertake changing their physical gender lightly. Can this even be answered by a simple yes or no?

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For anybody that thinks it is a choice, why the hell would someone feel the need to choose something that causes them such strife? It's a psychological issue.

Tha'ts as dumb as saying homosexuality is a choice, you don't choose who you are attracted to. You don't choose a lot of things in life, sometimes its just on your physiology/genetics/etc

Anarchon said:

The bathroom example stated above. There have also been lawsuits suing employers that have fired people for being transgender, and against landlords that have chosen not to rent to them. There are also fines up to 250k for not using transgender preferred pronouns and offending their delicate sensibilities.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2016/05/17/you-can-be-fined-for-not-calling-people-ze-or-hir-if-thats-the-pronoun-they-demand-that-you-use/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.2f75408e3b37

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I explained the bathroom example. Why would a person be fired because they are transgender? Why would they be denied an apartment? Just because they are transgender? That is discrimination. As far as using the incorrect pronoun, the victim would have to prove malicious intent.

Renae said:

Is it a choice to be Transgender? No. The choice lay in choosing to fix the problem versus trying to live the lie, for whatever reason, religion, family, culture, denial... That's my pov, for what it's worth.

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I also believe that there are different levels of being able to go there which correct the situation. Some people will feel good enough just presenting, others will need the entire hormone regiment, and many need the surgery.

Many feminists intensely dislike "transgenders" and in my opinion for good reasons. Transgender is NOT the same as transsexual.

Transgender is for some or most claiming to be and acting transgendered is nothing more than being a cross-dresser in public. It is 100% sexifying and stereotyping women as being nothing more than makeup, wardrobe and hair style. There is no "wear lipstick and a skirt" gene or otherwise being born desiring to shave your legs.

For whatever reason it is, transgender is wanting the stereotypical social definition of being a woman - no different than if a white person prefers the culture of a black community so dyes his skin dark demanding people call him an African-American. Yet that man isn't African-American, did not grow up as an African-American and most African-Americans definitely would NOT accept that he's really black.

Transsexual is not about social stereotyping, but instead to literally be a female. Nearly all transsexuals will also be transgender, while most transgender will not be and do not want to be true transsexual. A true transsexual will always want - desperately want - sex reassignment surgery (SRS). A transgender does not need SRS because this is not necessary to play the social stereotypical act of looking female in stereotypical ways.

Noting the distinction between transgender and transsexual, is a person born "transgender?" No. No one is born genetically pre-disposed to wear high heel shoes, a bra and a skirt. Those are all popular social gender stereotyping that constantly change. Transgenders are, by definition, "sexists."

I do believe it is accurate, but rare, that a small number of people may be born "transsexual," where their dna does not match their internal sense of what sex (biological sex) the person is.

I have no problem if a man wants to put makeup, a dress and the other social stereotypical appearances as a female - socially or privately - and an act they want to play socially or as a sexual fetish. Same visa versa for a woman wanting to play-act being a woman. However, it is extreme sexism and if that person then claims to REALLY be a woman it is EXTREMELY demeaning and degrading to women.

That is why, personally, I do not accept that a "he" has become a "she" without SRS as a matter of the person's sex. I person may play any social stereotypical social role they want to - including being a man socially pretending to be a woman - provided the government does not require everyone to accept that sexifying and stereotyping of what a female is as a matter of law.

If a person has SRS surgery, then and only then in my opinion has a "he" become a "she." This is not because I have anything against transgenders/cross-dressers. It is because I refuse to trivialize. marginalize and sexify what being a female is. I can fully accept and respect a transsexuals claim of being the opposite of their real sex if the person has SRS surgery.

Did you know that Joan Of Arc was not burned at the stake for being a heretic? They couldn't make that case stick. Rather, she was executed in that particularly horrific way for the crime of dressing like a man.

While the theological court had to accept it was not a crime for her to dress as a man in combat armor, she also had dressed as a man in prison due to a compassionate jailer giving her men's clothing to give her a chance trying to fight off being constantly raped by other guards, though this did not prevent it. The crime of dressing like a man was the excuse given for sentencing her being burned alive.

Hey, any of you ever see the old Virginia Slim cigarette ads with the slogan: "You've come a long way, baby" - that women also could smoke in public - but of course being a woman with smaller hands wouldn't want as thick cigarettes - a bizarre contradiction between anti and pro gender stereotyping?

Many years ago at a private gay rights meeting, mostly attended by lesbians, a genetic male also showed up so exaggeratedly dressed, wigged and with makeup as a female s/he more looked like a clown. The leader of the group was a gorgeous lesbian lawyer dressed in a feminine sophisticated and professional way.

When the trans tried to inject trans rights into it, she coldly said this was a meeting for lesbian and gay men's right, referring to the trans as "he" as she did. The trans corrected her with "she." To this, she told him "even if you cut off your penis you will never be a woman, but if you do I would be somewhat less intolerant of your demeaning and trivializing insult to every woman here."

The trans went ballistic and got inches from her nose, aggressively screaming in her face with spittle hitting her face - whereupon the lesbian kneed him in the groin so hard it lifted the trans off the floor and then down on it moaning and curled up holding his aching nuts.

She sneered down at the trans: "Do you feel like a woman now?"

She had just demonstrated the distinction between genetic males who are "transgender" and "transsexuals" in a physical sense.