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Modern-day feminists

ecofarm said:
Motive can be established without "knowing someone's thoughts". Believing otherwise is stupid.
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I never said you could not try to establish my motive. All I am saying is that, ultimately, the only person who truly knows what motivates me is me. And if you think I did something because of motive A, but I tell you it's actually motive B, then you should believe me. I am the ultimate and only authority on what motivates me.
 
Wan said:
All I am saying is that, ultimately, the only person who truly knows what motivates me is me.
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Nihilism rendering all your posts irrelevant. I said good day.
 
Wan said:
Hello. I find that most (not all) modern-day feminists are all talk. They say they care about women's plight, but very few of them actually do anything about female genital mutilation that goes on in some countries, which in my humble opinion, is million times worse than any injustice a woman in the West has to deal with. It just seems like all they want to do is to make the lives of men in the West as miserable as possible.

I agree that it can be difficult to really make meaningful changes in foreign countries, but I really doubt many of them even tried. Besides, there is Doctors Without Borders, so I think it's at least theoretically possible.

Your thoughts?
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Not to support modern day feminists per se, but to point out the logic hole in your seeming assumption.

When you cannot accomplish one goal, you don't forsake other goals until you accomplish the one. Additionally not all efforts are publicly seen.

IOW, there may be efforts you do not see, and it may be more.of a matter of focusing on what they can change, or at least have a better chance of change.

Sent from my Z982 using Tapatalk
 
Wan said:
Hello. I find that most (not all) modern-day feminists are all talk. They say they care about women's plight, but very few of them actually do anything about female genital mutilation that goes on in some countries, which in my humble opinion, is million times worse than any injustice a woman in the West has to deal with. It just seems like all they want to do is to make the lives of men in the West as miserable as possible.

I agree that it can be difficult to really make meaningful changes in foreign countries, but I really doubt many of them even tried. Besides, there is Doctors Without Borders, so I think it's at least theoretically possible.

Your thoughts?
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My thoughts is that change has to come FROM the culture. I had a thread on how this was accomplished by the Masai. It was through the courage and determination of a single Masai woman, who didn't want to go through that ceremony, because she wanted an education rather than being married off. People resent outsiders telling them what they do is wrong. A lot of the FGM is tied up with cultural heritage, and connection with the community... and outsiders coming in and telling them it's bad will get them to dig in their heels and not change.

Here is the thread about it https://www.debatepolitics.com/sex-and-sexuality/316013-one-womans-campaign-against-fgm.html
 
maquiscat said:
Not to support modern day feminists per se, but to point out the logic hole in your seeming assumption.

When you cannot accomplish one goal, you don't forsake other goals until you accomplish the one. Additionally not all efforts are publicly seen.

IOW, there may be efforts you do not see, and it may be more.of a matter of focusing on what they can change, or at least have a better chance of change.

Sent from my Z982 using Tapatalk
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I don't disagree with what you say, but I just want to point out that your principle does not work in real life. In our daily lives, it is pretty much impossible to know what people do or don't do in their private lives. Yet we still form judgments about other people. And technically all on incomplete evidence. For example, there is a teacher and a student. The student failed at a test quite badly. The teacher is going to think, "he did not study at all". The truth could be that he did study, but the course material was too difficult for him, or that he tried to study but he was told his grandma died, and now he couldn't concentrate. Anyway, my point is not how likely people are right, but rather, that its nearly impossible to gather ALL the evidences there are to gather. So, for practical purposes, people just go on and judge others based on evidence that is incomplete.

The only case I can think of where your ideal holds true is in a court. In a court, the jury members (or anybody in the position of making a judgment) will try their best to gather all evidence before making a decision. But even this process can be flawed.
 
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Wan said:
Then prove I am wrong.

Also please try to keep it civil.
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First you need to understand nihilism, then you need to stop doing it. One can't lose a debate and then claim, "well, what I post doesn't matter because no one knows what I think, so there's no way to ever truly know anything". That's nihilism. It's a pathetic retreat.
 
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ecofarm said:
First you need to understand nihilism, then you need to stop doing it. One can't lose a debate and then claim, "well, what I post doesn't matter because no one knows what I think, so there's no way to ever truly know anything". That's nihilism. It's a pathetic retreat.
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Nihilism: 'Nihilism is the belief that all values are baseless and that nothing can be known or communicated." See link here: https://www.iep.utm.edu/nihilism/

I never said what I post "doesn't matter". Furthermore, I did say no one knows what I think, however this is not the same as nihilism. I am merely conveying a fact: that nobody knows what goes on in another person's mind, and this has nothing to do with nihilism because I as a matter of fact am not saying all values are baseless.

But let's forget nihilism for a second. Can you honestly tell me that you know what goes on in my mind? I mean you can try and establish my intent based on the evidence you have, but would you not say that ultimately, I am the only one who knows what I truly think?
 
Wan said:
Nihilism: 'Nihilism is the belief that all values are baseless and that nothing can be known or communicated." See link here: https://www.iep.utm.edu/nihilism/

I never said what I post "doesn't matter". Furthermore, I did say no one knows what I think, however this is not the same as nihilism. I am merely conveying a fact: that nobody knows what goes on in another person's mind, and this has nothing to do with nihilism because I as a matter of fact am not saying all values are baseless.

But let's forget nihilism for a second. Can you honestly tell me that you know what goes on in my mind? I mean you can try and establish my intent based on the evidence you have, but would you not say that ultimately, I am the only one who knows what I truly think?
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:lamo
 
X Factor said:
What you’re doing is worse than not caring. You’re exploiting a horrific form of abuse for your own petty gotcha attempt.
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If you want an idea of where this thread is headed, see my signature.
 
Wan said:
Hello. I find that most (not all) modern-day feminists are all talk. They say they care about women's plight, but very few of them actually do anything about female genital mutilation that goes on in some countries, which in my humble opinion, is million times worse than any injustice a woman in the West has to deal with. It just seems like all they want to do is to make the lives of men in the West as miserable as possible.

I agree that it can be difficult to really make meaningful changes in foreign countries, but I really doubt many of them even tried. Besides, there is Doctors Without Borders, so I think it's at least theoretically possible.

Your thoughts?
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Why do you feel this is the defining point of feminism?
 
Wan said:
Hello. I find that most (not all) modern-day feminists are all talk. They say they care about women's plight, but very few of them actually do anything about female genital mutilation that goes on in some countries, which in my humble opinion, is million times worse than any injustice a woman in the West has to deal with. It just seems like all they want to do is to make the lives of men in the West as miserable as possible.

I agree that it can be difficult to really make meaningful changes in foreign countries, but I really doubt many of them even tried. Besides, there is Doctors Without Borders, so I think it's at least theoretically possible.

Your thoughts?
Click to expand...

I've run into people who've come into non-political forums that I frequented that were ranting and raving about 'the feminists' only for the majority of the community to be like, "what do you mean, all of us are feminists here in some capacity', and I've gotten myself into debates (not going to use the word, 'arguement' here, because that would imply some level of hostility) with conservatives on modern feminists, only to realize that neither one of us truely knows how many people identifying as feminists are of the moderate, gender-eqaulity types, and how many are truely mad, barking misandrists. I've tried to google it, and have come up with no such polling data anywhere. That's a shame, we could all use more to go by than just our own flawed perception and experience on many related topics. I want a break-down of self-indentifying feminists. I want a breakdown of the so-called proggressive left vs the so-called reggressive left. I want a break-down of just different camps in general.

I've also had conversations with people who were vehemetely anti-feminist and started to feel like we're actually closer in mind than I originally thought, only for them to end up saying some **** like 'it's not sexist to beleive in hard and fast gender-roles' or some form of 'my failure to get laid is entirely the fault of women'.

As far as 'but not doing anything about . . .', well, would that not describe most of us that are sitting behind a keyboard? Or are we simply talking about people who have blinders on issues that fall within the category of things that they supposedly care about? I've been accussed of not caring about X issue because I happened to be talking about Y issue, when in reality, I actually care about both, but was only talking about one at that point in time. Whataboutism and whatnot.

But yes, genital mutilation, pretty ****ing barbaric.
 
Wan said:
No "dude". I am a woman. A beautiful woman.

Now let's go back to the topic and start discussing the modern-day feminists' massive hypocrisy.
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Tell all the feminists what you are doing to combat the problem and they can follow your example.
 
Oborosen said:
This is ecofarm you're talking about here. No one here is really surprised with such an outcome from him.
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////// no one here is really surprised with such an outcome from him///// <------ still thinks he's qualified to speak for the entire forum...comedy gold.
 
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