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Homosexuality, Heterosexuality and the Choices in Between

I heard Mike Pence, that punk ass VP, wants to hang all the gay folk; screw him. Thank you. You're welcome.
 
bearpoker said:
I think it's choice, but sometimes the right choice is harder to make than you might think. Voluntary or not, we all have to live with the choices we make.
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Instincts are compulsive because they are needed for survival of the individual and/or the species. The goal of the instincts need to happen in spite of choices and willpower. The result is an unconscious and irrational compulsion.

The end game for sex is reproduction. Since reproduction is critical to evolution and the survival of any species, the sexual instinct are designed, with a carrot on the string, to help assure we reach the end game. The sexual instinct is two parts. Part A is a carrot on the string leading to Part B with is the endgame; reproduction.

An analogy is the hunger instinct. We need food to survive and maintain the body. This is the endgame for eating. To assure we eat, our taste buds are designed so many foods taste really good. This leads us to the end game. If all food tasted nasty, like spoiled lettuce, people might stop eating as much as they need. This would lead to problems in the endgame; not enough nutrition. The carrot on the string, to make sure the instinct of hunger is properly satisfied, is good tasting food, so we are encouraged to eat more and often.

On the other hand, we only ate, based on food having to taste good; only follow the carrot, but we have no sense of the instinctive end game, this can harm instinct; we can get fat and not have enough vitamins. If all you eat is pure sugar, since you love sweet, this is not a good end game diet. Proper eating habits, to optimize the body, needs to blend tasty foods like chocolate cake with less tasty, but healthy foods, like broccoli, since the underlying needs of the body is more than just how good a food tastes.

Sex is similar. The carrot on the string is desire and pleasure. This sexual carrot on the string, can be satisfied with a wide range of behavior and objects from masturbation, vibrators, barn yard critters, orifices and phallus that cannot reproduce, to even blow up dolls and machines. Most of these are junk food equivalents, that can satisfy the carrot on the string; desire and pleasure, but they are not healthy diets; proper end game. They allow for choices and willpower, but run short of the end game for sexuality, which is reproduction and children.

Eating cake all the time can keep you alive. It can satisfy hunger, and it can taste good, but this is not a balanced meal that allows selective advantages; optimum health. However, there are people who like chocolate cake so much, they don't think past the carrot on the string. There is very little social effort to create a healthy awareness of all our two part natural instincts, and their natural end games. Marketing and money making is only concerned with part one. Damaging part two, via part one, can lead to repressions that can cause unconscious potential, so even more part one is needed; more sales.

The overweight person who eats to much junk food, causes an instinct problem in part 2. This creates unconscious potential that is sublimated in part 1, which starts the animation cycle. This adds to the problem in part 2, so there is an escalation in behavior; obesity. The litmus test of natural instinct is animation followed by rest, not always animated. Always animated is a symptom of damage to part 2. This damage can be useful if the goal to make money off compulsive behavior, via repressions in instinctive end games.

Homosexuality does not satisfy the end game of natural sexual instinct. It cannot reproduce. Reproduction triggers the next chapter of instinct; child raising. Once the child is born, maternal and paternal instinct kicks in. This has Part A and Part B; love your child the most; taste analogy. so there is better end game; thrive.

Homosexuality is like eating sawdust that is flavored with sugar and spices. It can taste good and even be your favorite food, but the body is never satisfied, deep down. There is a constant need to eat more.

It is too bad science is so beholden for resources, to where it has to remain subjugated to politics. It only dwells on part A and never addresses part B and how these are connected. Although, it does os this with eating and drinking.
 
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calamity said:
Ok, this is more or less a thread designed for mature discussion and some thought. Also, there is no need to directly answer some of the questions, but rather maybe just keep them in your head as you formulate an opinion.

Let me begin by saying that this topic has bothered me for decades as I struggle with the rules of heterosexual monogamy, marriage, and just general male-female related bull****. How much of a choice is acting on sexual impulses?

I can say this. I find it easier to resist urges now than I did 20 year ago when my hormones raged and impulse control took a back seat. Back then, if I saw someone I was attracted to, I almost always pursued it. And, if by some miracle I successfully managed to engage that person, it was usually impossible to resist breaking all the rules assumed in my other relationships. So, yeah. I would cheat, divorce, throw away fortunes, whatever to score that piece of ass. Today? Hell, some Victoria Secret model could probably walk by me stark naked and I wouldn't even get out of my chair.

So, I'm left wondering...how much of our sexual behavior is "choice."
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I think our behavior is a choice, but I don't think our urges are. And, like you mention, hormones play a big role in how strong the urges are. Stronger urges are harder to resist, so we may forego thinking with our heads, especially when younger.
 
HowardBThiname said:
I think our behavior is a choice, but I don't think our urges are. And, like you mention, hormones play a big role in how strong the urges are. Stronger urges are harder to resist, so we may forego thinking with our heads, especially when younger.
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Yep. I think the power of "urges" to overcome restraint is often left out of the discussion when the issue of sexual behavior is debated. If you ask me, I'd say the reason I got so much heat in this thread for bringing it up is quite revealing.

People do not want to admit how powerless we sometimes are to resist certain impulses, especially in youth.
 
HowardBThiname said:
I think our behavior is a choice, but I don't think our urges are. And, like you mention, hormones play a big role in how strong the urges are. Stronger urges are harder to resist, so we may forego thinking with our heads, especially when younger.
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Repression of natural instinctive end games, can make the compulsions even worse. Behavior that harms natural instinct can make the compulsion stronger. I remember hiking in the mountains, and not bringing enough water. It was usually warm and I used up my water earlier than expected. My natural instinct was to drink to help rehydrate me, but I needed to repress this, due to the lack of water.

My choice not to drink, due to necessity, caused my desire to drink to escalate, to where I eventually felt justified drinking water out of a green muddy puddle in bolder pocket. During rational times, drinking green muddy water on a trail, would never be done, since it cam make you sick. But the repression, due to me dehydration was so strong, this seemed to made sense. I put the water to my lips, first, but it was so nasty, that the nasty flavor shut off my thirst for about 1/2 hour. During that time, I continue to climb and found a stream coming out of the rocks. After I drank about 6 liters of water there was no more need to drink.

The strongest compulsions are often caused by repressed natural instinct. This can escalates, if the part A behavior continues to damage the end game or Part B, of the instinct (see above). The drug addict is enjoying their buzz; part A, but this is harming their body, with the damage to instinct, causing escalating unconscious compulsion. Male homosexuality is among the most compulsive in terms of sex. This escalation is due to the damage to natural instinct; part B. Even muddy water looks good. Lesbian is not quite the same.
 
wellwisher said:
Homosexuality does not satisfy the end game of natural sexual instinct. It cannot reproduce. Reproduction triggers the next chapter of instinct; child raising. Once the child is born, maternal and paternal instinct kicks in. This has Part A and Part B; love your child the most; taste analogy. so there is better end game; thrive.

Homosexuality is like eating sawdust that is flavored with sugar and spices. It can taste good and even be your favorite food, but the body is never satisfied, deep down. There is a constant need to eat more.
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So then by this logic, a person who is heterosexual yet sterile, and thus cannot reproduce, will never have their body satisfied, deep down. They will have a constant need to "eat more".
 
calamity said:
Yep. I think the power of "urges" to overcome restraint is often left out of the discussion when the issue of sexual behavior is debated. If you ask me, I'd say the reason I got so much heat in this thread for bringing it up is quite revealing.

People do not want to admit how powerless we sometimes are to resist certain impulses, especially in youth.
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I'm trying to understand where the concepts of heterosexuality and homosexuality come in to play with what you claim you are looking for in this thread. If you are wanting to explore the idea of the ability to control our sexual urges and the effects of age on such, then heterosexuality and homosexuality are red herrings towards this point.
 
maquiscat said:
I'm trying to understand where the concepts of heterosexuality and homosexuality come in to play with what you claim you are looking for in this thread. If you are wanting to explore the idea of the ability to control our sexual urges and the effects of age on such, then heterosexuality and homosexuality are red herrings towards this point.
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Not red herrings, but certainly two words that flip a lot of people out.

In my mind there is no difference between leaving your wife for another woman than there is for leaving her for a man. The names may change, but the act of responding to a sexual urge is the same.
 
calamity said:
Not red herrings, but certainly two words that flip a lot of people out.

In my mind there is no difference between leaving your wife for another woman than there is for leaving her for a man. The names may change, but the act of responding to a sexual urge is the same.
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I agree with you on this. Cheating is cheating (and by this I am talking about going behind back and keeping secrets, not poly). But what does any of that have to do with either orientation? Or were you purposefully throwing them in just to muddy the waters?
 
maquiscat said:
I agree with you on this. Cheating is cheating (and by this I am talking about going behind back and keeping secrets, not poly). But what does any of that have to do with either orientation? Or were you purposefully throwing them in just to muddy the waters?
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I was pointing out that people are expected to overcome sexual impulse all the time.
 
calamity said:
I was pointing out that people are expected to overcome sexual impulse all the time.
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Nobody should be expected to be celibate or pretend to love someone of a sex they are not attracted to.

That's unreasonable.

You being held to your word and a contract you willingly entered in is absolutely acceptable.

So you're not comparing two similar things.
 
calamity said:
I was pointing out that people are expected to overcome sexual impulse all the time.
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OK. Fine and well. Sexual orientation is a red herring to that point. It holds no sway on what one has to overcome.
 
maquiscat said:
OK. Fine and well. Sexual orientation is a red herring to that point. It holds no sway on what one has to overcome.
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What's the difference between a straight man being married to a woman for forty years who he no longer wants to have sex with or a gay man doing it?

Do tell.
 
CLAX1911 said:
Nobody should be expected to be celibate or pretend to love someone of a sex they are not attracted to.

That's unreasonable.

You being held to your word and a contract you willingly entered in is absolutely acceptable.

So you're not comparing two similar things.
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I'm not buying that. Gay or straight, both men entered into that contract. Either both have the right to opt out or neither do.
 
calamity said:
What's the difference between a straight man being married to a woman for forty years who he no longer wants to have sex with or a gay man doing it?

Do tell.
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Just to be clear, I am going to reword your question to make sure I understand it correctly.

What's the difference between a straight man being married to a woman for forty years whom he no longer wants to have sex with, and a gay man being married to a man for forty years whom he no longer wants to have sex with?

Is this the correct question?

Sent from my Z982 using Tapatalk
 
maquiscat said:
Just to be clear, I am going to reword your question to make sure I understand it correctly.

What's the difference between a straight man being married to a woman for forty years whom he no longer wants to have sex with, and a gay man being married to a man for forty years whom he no longer wants to have sex with?

Is this the correct question?

Sent from my Z982 using Tapatalk
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Nope.
 
CLAX1911 said:
If they aren't married no they haven't.
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I'm saying both are married, to women. It could even be that both men are married to men. Twenty, thirty, forty years go by, and the guy decides that, for whatever reason, he is no longer attracted to the person he married. It happens.

FYI, this apples to women as well.

All parties should be able to opt out. There should be no double standard. By double standard I mean, it is ok to leave your wife if you discover you are gay and no longer attracted to women, but it is not ok to leave your wife because you want to hook up with twenty-five year old strippers.
 
calamity said:
By double standard I mean, it is ok to leave your wife if you discover you are gay and no longer attracted to women, but it is not ok to leave your wife because you want to hook up with twenty-five year old strippers.
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Ok this, I believe, gives me the original intent of.your question. As I noted, this was not clear initially.

The next question is in what area are you asking about the double standard? Legally or socially? Because those are two separate answers.

Sent from my Z982 using Tapatalk
 
calamity said:
I'm saying both are married, to women. It could even be that both men are married to men. Twenty, thirty, forty years go by, and the guy decides that, for whatever reason, he is no longer attracted to the person he married. It happens.
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I suppose that happens regardless of whether the person decides they're homosexual or they fall in love with someone else or whatever.

But you said to me that a homosexual person not a married one is placing their desires over their loved ones. If they aren't married there is no contract. So if your son or daughter or brother or whatever comes out as gay and you feel betrayed that is your problem.

FYI, this apples to women as well.
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I would say it applies to anyone who enters the contract of marriage.

All parties should be able to opt out. There should be no double standard. By double standard I mean, it is ok to leave your wife if you discover you are gay and no longer attracted to women, but it is not ok to leave your wife because you want to hook up with twenty-five year old strippers.
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Well personally I think it's worse to marry someone if you're gay I don't believe that there's a magical fairy that waves are Wand Over you at some point in your age and like magic you're gay all the sudden. A homosexual person would have known they were homosexual going into any relationship. So I've you tricking someone into marrying you so you can keep your parents happy or stay in the closet convincingly is extremely self-centered.

So honestly I think it's worse to lie to someone trick them into marrying you well secretly you are gay then someone who runs off on their wife or husband to Chase young ass. The letter wasn't a lie from the very beginning.

I have dated women in the past a woman and I was honest with her that I was bisexual.
 
CLAX1911 said:
I suppose that happens regardless of whether the person decides they're homosexual or they fall in love with someone else or whatever.

But you said to me that a homosexual person not a married one is placing their desires over their loved ones. If they aren't married there is no contract. So if your son or daughter or brother or whatever comes out as gay and you feel betrayed that is your problem.
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I would agree, but then too one must accept it when their son and daughter does other things not quite inline with the family mores as well. Correct?

I would say it applies to anyone who enters the contract of marriage.


Well personally I think it's worse to marry someone if you're gay I don't believe that there's a magical fairy that waves are Wand Over you at some point in your age and like magic you're gay all the sudden. A homosexual person would have known they were homosexual going into any relationship. So I've you tricking someone into marrying you so you can keep your parents happy or stay in the closet convincingly is extremely self-centered.

So honestly I think it's worse to lie to someone trick them into marrying you well secretly you are gay then someone who runs off on their wife or husband to Chase young ass. The letter wasn't a lie from the very beginning.

I have dated women in the past a woman and I was honest with her that I was bisexual.
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Hard to say for me. I would be apt to cut people some slack. Say, someone is gay, but honestly believes he or she can become ungay by marrying someone of the opposite sex. I can see cutting that person some slack for that when they eventually find out it didn't work.

On a related note, I believe I've read of some cases where someone started out as a lesbian and later in life decided they were straight after all. I'm sure it happens with men too, but perhaps less often.

Life is long. Things change. So, maybe a straight guy tiring of his old wife is not all that much different than a gay guy finally concluding that he can no longer stay married to a woman. :shrug:
 
calamity said:
I would agree, but then too one must accept it when their son and daughter does other things not quite inline with the family mores as well. Correct?
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well I won't say that the family must accept anything nobody really has to accept anything but if you don't you're going to drive away a person or Worse make them neurotic. And yes that goes for if your child is a different religion or atheist or doesn't want to go into the type of business you want them to go into.


Hard to say for me. I would be apt to cut people some slack. Say, someone is gay, but honestly believes he or she can become ungay by marrying someone of the opposite sex.
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I'm sorry I can't cut that level of stupidity any slack.

I can see cutting that person some slack for that when they eventually find out it didn't work.
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because I've been there I know better and no I don't cut that any kind of slack because they knew from the beginning who they were attracted too. Tricking someone into marrying you is it completely self-centered Act.

On a related note, I believe I've read of some cases where someone started out as a lesbian and later in life decided they were straight after all. I'm sure it happens with men too, but perhaps less often.
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the term for that is bisexual. You're talking to a man that was like that I just went the other way.

Life is long. Things change. So, maybe a straight guy tiring of his old wife is not all that much different than a gay guy finally concluding that he can no longer stay married to a woman. :shrug:
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a gay man should have never married a woman in the first place unless the woman knew that the man was gay and it's a marriage out of convenience. You don't magically find out you're gay long after you've been married you'll know before you got married.

I don't buy that late onset homosexuality that's just someone who is in denial.
 
CLAX1911 said:
well I won't say that the family must accept anything nobody really has to accept anything but if you don't you're going to drive away a person or Worse make them neurotic. And yes that goes for if your child is a different religion or atheist or doesn't want to go into the type of business you want them to go into.


I'm sorry I can't cut that level of stupidity any slack.

because I've been there I know better and no I don't cut that any kind of slack because they knew from the beginning who they were attracted too. Tricking someone into marrying you is it completely self-centered Act.

the term for that is bisexual. You're talking to a man that was like that I just went the other way.

a gay man should have never married a woman in the first place unless the woman knew that the man was gay and it's a marriage out of convenience. You don't magically find out you're gay long after you've been married you'll know before you got married.

I don't buy that late onset homosexuality that's just someone who is in denial.
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I may not agree with all of this, but I respect your responses. Thanks.
 
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