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The Invention of Monogamy

maquiscat

maquiscat

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https://thenib.com/the-invention-of-monogamy?t=recent

A very interesting read. Some of it I already knew, but still learned some things. There are references at the end, so if you are going to counter-argue (encouraged) make sure you can counter those references, particularly with ones of your own.
 
maquiscat said:
https://thenib.com/the-invention-of-monogamy?t=recent

A very interesting read. Some of it I already knew, but still learned some things. There are references at the end, so if you are going to counter-argue (encouraged) make sure you can counter those references, particularly with ones of your own.
Click to expand...

I once read that monogamy became a practise after it became clear that the wealthiest having multiple wives resulted in their being no women for a lot of men and that was a destabilizing factor.
 
What if...? said:
I once read that monogamy became a practise after it became clear that the wealthiest having multiple wives resulted in their being no women for a lot of men and that was a destabilizing factor.
Click to expand...

The lure of wealth still mesmerizes a lot of women.
 
maquiscat said:
https://thenib.com/the-invention-of-monogamy?t=recent

A very interesting read. Some of it I already knew, but still learned some things. There are references at the end, so if you are going to counter-argue (encouraged) make sure you can counter those references, particularly with ones of your own.
Click to expand...

Using personal experiences as my primary means of measurement, from adolescence well into middle age, I shamelessly pursued and participated in heterosexual polygamy. Figuratively, particularly after legal marriage and the birth of my 1st child in 1989, the slope became increasingly slippery and relationships increasingly complicated. I have four daughters.... all born during my 1st marriage... two from my wife, one each from girlfriends. I divorced my wife and married the mother of my last daughter.

By the time child #3 came along, my wife #1 and I lived in the same house in separate bedrooms and maintained an obviously open marriage. Still, I can remember, in 2006, the high emotional intensity level within our home when I announced the pregnancy of my girlfriend. By the end of 2009, I could no longer maintain a stable home. My girlfriend, mother of child #3, filed a restraining order against me. Nine months later, wife #1 and child #2 (17 at the time) filed a restraining order against me. I had 15 minutes to move out of a home I had co-owned since 1992.

Today, age 61, after years of overcoming turmoil and with steady effort to improve relationships, I have a stable situation. I committed to monogamy in 2010.

I remember at least part of your story: mother of your first two or three children could not take care of them. The children moved in with your parents. Later, you and another woman created a home. Maybe she already had a child or two? Maybe you had another one together? You invited another couple into your home. You and your partner became intimate with your guests. You, your partner and the other couple go to events together. Children ... some now adults.... come and go from the home.

It sounded complicated, like real life. More power to you with consensual participation AND if ALL PARTIES can handle the complications.

Feel some Love! Peace to you and yours!
 
So, we are, by nature, sluts and ho-dawgs and liable to **** anything with a pulse. Not surprising.

Maybe it is good to rise above that... by nature we're also bullies, thieves and killers, according to history.
 
Trippy Trekker said:
Using personal experiences as my primary means of measurement, from adolescence well into middle age, I shamelessly pursued and participated in heterosexual polygamy. Figuratively, particularly after legal marriage and the birth of my 1st child in 1989, the slope became increasingly slippery and relationships increasingly complicated. I have four daughters.... all born during my 1st marriage... two from my wife, one each from girlfriends. I divorced my wife and married the mother of my last daughter.

By the time child #3 came along, my wife #1 and I lived in the same house in separate bedrooms and maintained an obviously open marriage. Still, I can remember, in 2006, the high emotional intensity level within our home when I announced the pregnancy of my girlfriend. By the end of 2009, I could no longer maintain a stable home. My girlfriend, mother of child #3, filed a restraining order against me. Nine months later, wife #1 and child #2 (17 at the time) filed a restraining order against me. I had 15 minutes to move out of a home I had co-owned since 1992.
Click to expand...

How much communication and approval was going on between you and your partners? That is key in any relationship, mono or poly. I have to wonder if your wife was actually participating because she felt she could do it. I would like to say that she did think it, but then I have to wonder if she failed to tell you that she discovered it wasn't for her. Poly isn't for everyone. In fact that is probably the one point of the article that I disagree with. I personally think that most people are monogamous by nature and that most early polygamous, particularly polygynous, marriages were more about the land and wealth and power, etc. Although I do have to wonder why restraining order were necessary. That usually, but not always, indicates concern by the courts for bodily or property damage.

I remember at least part of your story: mother of your first two or three children could not take care of them. The children moved in with your parents. Later, you and another woman created a home. Maybe she already had a child or two? Maybe you had another one together? You invited another couple into your home. You and your partner became intimate with your guests. You, your partner and the other couple go to events together. Children ... some now adults.... come and go from the home.
Click to expand...

You kinda have the jist, but the timeline and details are all wrong. I have 4 kids by a previous wife. All are now grown and I have a grandchild each by my three daughters. Still waiting on my son to give me one. All of them know about the poly, but they were grown before we found the other couple. My legal wife has one son, for whom I was there for during the pregnancy and birth and he just left home last year after finishing high school. He lives with his dad now (not his father. An even longer and more complicated story than our poly marriage, believe it or not.) He knew about poly even before the couple moved in, but they were the first he ever saw it put into practice. The other woman has three grown children by a previous (abusive) husband, by which the daughter has two boys, bringing our overall grandchild count to 5, for now. Because of their father, they don't know or at least acknowledge the poly. They just see us as two sets of empty nest parents who are living together for financial reasons as well as because we get along. We didn't get intimate between the two couples until after they had been living with us for a while. We had invited them in when they ended up suddenly homeless. A whole other story that the post doesn't allow me space to give and if anyone really wants it they can ask.
 
Goshin said:
So, we are, by nature, sluts and ho-dawgs and liable to **** anything with a pulse. Not surprising.

Maybe it is good to rise above that... by nature we're also bullies, thieves and killers, according to history.
Click to expand...

I really doubt that. Over all I think we are still rather discerning (obviously there are exceptions), it's just that we are not necessarily set to be with one and only one. At least some of us aren't.
 
maquiscat said:
How much communication and approval was going on between you and your partners? That is key in any relationship, mono or poly. I have to wonder if your wife was actually participating because she felt she could do it. I would like to say that she did think it, but then I have to wonder if she failed to tell you that she discovered it wasn't for her. Poly isn't for everyone. In fact that is probably the one point of the article that I disagree with. I personally think that most people are monogamous by nature and that most early polygamous, particularly polygynous, marriages were more about the land and wealth and power, etc. Although I do have to wonder why restraining order were necessary. That usually, but not always, indicates concern by the courts for bodily or property damage.



You kinda have the jist, but the timeline and details are all wrong. I have 4 kids by a previous wife. All are now grown and I have a grandchild each by my three daughters. Still waiting on my son to give me one. All of them know about the poly, but they were grown before we found the other couple. My legal wife has one son, for whom I was there for during the pregnancy and birth and he just left home last year after finishing high school. He lives with his dad now (not his father. An even longer and more complicated story than our poly marriage, believe it or not.) He knew about poly even before the couple moved in, but they were the first he ever saw it put into practice. The other woman has three grown children by a previous (abusive) husband, by which the daughter has two boys, bringing our overall grandchild count to 5, for now. Because of their father, they don't know or at least acknowledge the poly. They just see us as two sets of empty nest parents who are living together for financial reasons as well as because we get along. We didn't get intimate between the two couples until after they had been living with us for a while. We had invited them in when they ended up suddenly homeless. A whole other story that the post doesn't allow me space to give and if anyone really wants it they can ask.
Click to expand...

Certain strong character traits might increase the prospect of embracing polygamy. For me, some of those traits included:
-a non-religious spiritual orientation.
-open-minded and free-spirited thinking.
-high libido.
-following my natural inclination.
-success at making up new rules.
-rigorous physical regimens.
-steady cash flow.

My first wife, 24 years old and already meaningfully employed as a professional when we met, merely tolerated (for 22 years) my lifestyle. My 2nd wife enlightened me in certain ways very early on and insisted I commit to monogamy.
I finally reached a point at age 53 (8 years ago) when I could no longer successfully juggle a polygamous lifestyle. I have few regrets about my past. I enjoy the simplicity and purity of my current monogamous relationship. To each their own.

Good luck with your complicated situation! Keep us updated.
 
Trippy Trekker said:
Certain strong character traits might increase the prospect of embracing polygamy. For me, some of those traits included:
-a non-religious spiritual orientation.
-open-minded and free-spirited thinking.
-high libido.
-following my natural inclination.
-success at making up new rules.
-rigorous physical regimens.
-steady cash flow.

My first wife, 24 years old and already meaningfully employed as a professional when we met, merely tolerated (for 22 years) my lifestyle. My 2nd wife enlightened me in certain ways very early on and insisted I commit to monogamy.
I finally reached a point at age 53 (8 years ago) when I could no longer successfully juggle a polygamous lifestyle. I have few regrets about my past. I enjoy the simplicity and purity of my current monogamous relationship. To each their own.

Good luck with your complicated situation! Keep us updated.
Click to expand...
Going to have to correct you on some of these. While I understand that these are just how you see things, I can't just let them go as if they actually we're traits needed.

Trippy Trekker said:
Certain strong character traits might increase the prospect of embracing polygamy. For me, some of those traits included:
-a non-religious spiritual orientation.
Click to expand...

There are plenty of religious folks out there who are into poly. And not just Mormons or Muslims. Other Christians, pagans, Jews just to name a few. While some will claim poly antithetical to A given religion, they simply do not speak for all.

-open-minded and free-spirited thinking.
Click to expand...

You'd be surprised at the number of closed minded poly people out there who thinking can only be done a certain way.

-high libido.
Click to expand...

Poly is about the relationships, not the sex. There are those out there in poly units with low libidos.

-success at making up new rules.
Click to expand...

You might see this as a semantics thing, but one of the things I tell people just starting out is don't make rules. Make agreements. Rules tend to be rather one sided. You make rules for your children. You make agreements with your partners

-rigorous physical regimens.
Click to expand...

Not sure why you think this. Granted everyone should be maintaining a good physical regimen, but it is no more need to do poly than it is needed to do monogamy.

-steady cash flow.
Click to expand...

That's also one of those things equally important for both poly and monogamy.

Sent from my Z982 using Tapatalk
 
You humor me with your notions. You, The Student, has attempted to correct me, The Master. Many grins!

'Traits that might increase the prospect of polygamy' does not mean anywhere near the same thing as 'traits needed for polygamy.'

In your life, you might not have connected polygamy to sex and physical regimen. The sex and physical regimen always factored in a major way with my polygamous lifestyle.

Using your own libido as a primary measure, how do you rate your poly unit's libido?

Suggesting or encouraging people interested in polygamy to not make rules, IMO, reflects both an open-minded and free-spirited nature. Figuratively, you split hairs to differentiate rules from agreement. In your poly unit, you took in a marginalized and vulnerable couple. This may have given your way of thinking a prohibitive advantage at prevailing?

Also, again IMO, you overused the expression "out there"... and you did not provide credible sources to validate your sweeping generalities.

For me, I found cash flow exponentially more complicated and important to maintaining polygamous relationships than a single monogamous relationship.

In your relationship with me, I came ahead of you in this world, thus, you remain the student.

As an aside, if you ever familiarized yourself with Voltaire's book Candide, Voltaire preaches a simple concept: work keeps three evils at bay- Boredom, Vice and Need.

Peace to you and yours! Keep us updated on your poly unit.
 
Interesting, thanks for sharing...
 
I know lots of Latin American couples. Almost all of the men have had mistresses or short term playing around. Most of the wives will nag, complain and in some cases even become violent, but they don't divorce. Once a woman "hits the wall" and her perky tits start to resemble deflated balloons, she realizes that her husband, even with a mistress, is the best deal going. It usually isn't discussed lest the kids lose respect for their parents.
 
SDET said:
I know lots of Latin American couples. Almost all of the men have had mistresses or short term playing around. Most of the wives will nag, complain and in some cases even become violent, but they don't divorce. Once a woman "hits the wall" and her perky tits start to resemble deflated balloons, she realizes that her husband, even with a mistress, is the best deal going. It usually isn't discussed lest the kids lose respect for their parents.
Click to expand...

That's because those women are dependent, and intentionally so by society. They dont have options, they didnt develop career skills, they are only encouraged to be mothers and wives. They dont have anywhere to go and men like to keep it that way.

So it's pretty ****ty when men just shove them aside when they arent pretty enough anymore. Quite the noble picture you paint of men...not. The men in those countries are allowed to beat the **** out of their wives if they stray. Bullies that only keep women because they dont allow the women any other options. Those are some pretty weak men.
 
Lursa said:
That's because those women are dependent, and intentionally so by society. They dont have options, they didnt develop career skills, they are only encouraged to be mothers and wives. They dont have anywhere to go and men like to keep it that way.

So it's pretty ****ty when men just shove them aside when they arent pretty enough anymore. Quite the noble picture you paint of men...not. The men in those countries are allowed to beat the **** out of their wives if they stray. Bullies that only keep women because they dont allow the women any other options. Those are some pretty weak men.
Click to expand...

The women who nag, complain and become violent because their husband has a mistress are the ones that came to the USA. The ones still in Latin America would get the crap slapped out of them if they dared to complain. Don't underestimate the power of complacency. Many women don't want to have to go to a job or study.
 
SDET said:
The women who nag, complain and become violent because their husband has a mistress are the ones that came to the USA. The ones still in Latin America would get the crap slapped out of them if they dared to complain. Don't underestimate the power of complacency. Many women don't want to have to go to a job or study.
Click to expand...

Neither do many men. What's your point? Keeping a house well and raising kids properly is a real job, altho I've seen you dismiss that.

Either way, women dont want to be disrespected and cast aside when they dont look hot anymore. And it's a shallow male that does so, without appreciating that there is more to a person than looks. THeir days can be exhausting too, too bad if they arent ready to bed you on demand.
 
Trippy Trekker said:
You humor me with your notions. You, The Student, has attempted to correct me, The Master. Many grins!

'Traits that might increase the prospect of polygamy' does not mean anywhere near the same thing as 'traits needed for polygamy.'

In your life, you might not have connected polygamy to sex and physical regimen. The sex and physical regimen always factored in a major way with my polygamous lifestyle.

Using your own libido as a primary measure, how do you rate your poly unit's libido?

Suggesting or encouraging people interested in polygamy to not make rules, IMO, reflects both an open-minded and free-spirited nature. Figuratively, you split hairs to differentiate rules from agreement. In your poly unit, you took in a marginalized and vulnerable couple. This may have given your way of thinking a prohibitive advantage at prevailing?

Also, again IMO, you overused the expression "out there"... and you did not provide credible sources to validate your sweeping generalities.

For me, I found cash flow exponentially more complicated and important to maintaining polygamous relationships than a single monogamous relationship.

In your relationship with me, I came ahead of you in this world, thus, you remain the student.

As an aside, if you ever familiarized yourself with Voltaire's book Candide, Voltaire preaches a simple concept: work keeps three evils at bay- Boredom, Vice and Need.

Peace to you and yours! Keep us updated on your poly unit.
Click to expand...

I've never been a fan of polygamy. One partner, settle for life. Granted I'm divorced once but that was because our lives diverged to irreconcilable. I've been married 13 years to the same woman, a wonderful woman and I couldn't imagine entering any sort of intimate relationship with another person. I respect her too much to do that.

But whatever floats your boat, I prefer trust and stability over the primal instinct of chasing tail.
 
Renae said:
I've never been a fan of polygamy. One partner, settle for life. Granted I'm divorced once but that was because our lives diverged to irreconcilable. I've been married 13 years to the same woman, a wonderful woman and I couldn't imagine entering any sort of intimate relationship with another person. I respect her too much to do that.

But whatever floats your boat, I prefer trust and stability over the primal instinct of chasing tail.
Click to expand...

As you well know, some of us learn some of life's lessons the hard way. Your penchant for monogamy most likely saved you years of mending longstanding family and friendship relationships. My current wife, early on in our relationship (8+ years ago), challenged me on my free spirited lifestyle. Basically she said "What do you do? Make the Rules up as you go?" She made a valid point! I committed to monogamy .... and the overall quality of life has vastly improved!

Prayers and thoughts to you in all of your upcoming endeavors!
 
Trippy Trekker said:
As you well know, some of us learn some of life's lessons the hard way. Your penchant for monogamy most likely saved you years of mending longstanding family and friendship relationships. My current wife, early on in our relationship (8+ years ago), challenged me on my free spirited lifestyle. Basically she said "What do you do? Make the Rules up as you go?" She made a valid point! I committed to monogamy .... and the overall quality of life has vastly improved!

Prayers and thoughts to you in all of your upcoming endeavors!
Click to expand...

I as you know, i'm from a fairly conservative family, but I knew a very open marriage couple that had lots of trust issues and watching them made me realize that was a potential pitfall to such a life.
 
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